HowlVoid Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 I have run a lot of theorycrafting for when I'd like to take certain skills, but it seems too many times, you are forced to take intermediate skills that only make sense when you take the final skill in the tier. Ipecaca should be an off-shoot from butterfly friend and farmhand should not connect to any other skills. If you decide to play wormwood as a farming character you can take farmhand just fine. If instead you decide you wish to use other methods for food you are forced to take it to use the skill that makes compost wraps actually useful mid combat. Similarly if you wish to use ipecaca to supplement compost wraps or farming you can use planters just fine without the useless skills meant to balance out the moonshroom and mushroom multiplier skills. Ipecaca is just far too high to warrant much use because 3 skill points is far too expensive for what a single werepig can do. I was really hoping to use ipecaca and compost wraps together but they are whole different sides of the tree for some reason. Wormwoods skill tree is in some serious need of reorganizing. When woodie and Wolfgang wish to strengthen one skill it continues in one straight line. Meanwhile wormwood has skills behind skills with little to no correlation to said skills. What do butterflies have to do with mushroom planters? What do seeds have to do with bees? What does farming have to do with bramble traps? All of Wolfgang's skills aren't placed behind coaching whistle and leg day. All of woodie's skills aren't paced behind quick picker and hat carving. Why is only wormwood set up in this horrible way? This seems similar to my other thread but this is about the lack of focus down a path. I wanted to provide two different perspectives and approaches on what issues are in his skill tree. The focus can be cleaned up or we can address the poor value in the first skill point wormwood spends. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149844-punished-for-leftover-skill-points-and-the-mess-that-is-wormwoods-skill-tree/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatt Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 35 minutes ago, HowlVoid said: Why is only wormwood set up in this horrible way? When artificial gatekeeping looks too artificial. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149844-punished-for-leftover-skill-points-and-the-mess-that-is-wormwoods-skill-tree/#findComment-1654388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 39 minutes ago, HowlVoid said: All of woodie's skills aren't paced behind quick picker and hat carving. To be fair I do also kind of wish wooden walking stick and tree guard idol were first or off to the side rather than having required picks before them as well. Woodie is pretty gated in his own way as well in that you actually have required picks because the first 3 beaver and moose skills are needed to make them at least decent at their jobs. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149844-punished-for-leftover-skill-points-and-the-mess-that-is-wormwoods-skill-tree/#findComment-1654390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlVoid Posted July 25, 2023 Author Share Posted July 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: To be fair I do also kind of wish wooden walking stick and tree guard idol were first or off to the side rather than having required picks before them as well. But you also have the choice of not choosing those skills entirely. Woodie has 6 entry level skills. 6 ways you can start your road. Wormwood has TWO and you always have to takes at least 1. I don't find a time where I'm not taking both because my options are so limited. 4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: Woodie is pretty gated in his own way as well in that you actually have required picks because the first 3 beaver and moose skills are needed to make them at least decent at their jobs. Yeah and those are related to their transformations. I'm not saying skip growth spurt 1 to get to flower power or skip mushroom Mastery to get to moonshrooms. Some filler skills allow for balance with later skills and their power but they are related to eachother. Because woodie has so many entry level skills he is not so gated. You can choose to focus on one transformation, you can pick treeguard feller and the walking stick and his affinity skills. Wormwood has to always pick a farming skill even when trying to get combat skills always wasting a point or several to get to the focus you're trying to achieve. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149844-punished-for-leftover-skill-points-and-the-mess-that-is-wormwoods-skill-tree/#findComment-1654395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortalbane Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Yep, plant boy's tree is a mess. I tried to think about rearranging his skills in the tree to better group them up, but ended up remaking half of the tree =) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149844-punished-for-leftover-skill-points-and-the-mess-that-is-wormwoods-skill-tree/#findComment-1654400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapientis Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 This gave me another look at his tree, check it out! I explain these ideas in my last topic, but I get it's quite loong... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149844-punished-for-leftover-skill-points-and-the-mess-that-is-wormwoods-skill-tree/#findComment-1654451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlVoid Posted July 26, 2023 Author Share Posted July 26, 2023 33 minutes ago, Sapientis said: This gave me another look at his tree, check it out! I explain these ideas in my last topic, but I get it's quite loong... This is so nice I might actually cry, why don't we have this! It's so much better than what we have now (though I'd still like ipecaca to maybe be tied to self-fertilizer rather than mushroom planters but the whole thing is such an upgrade I'd be fine with this). This will forever be the skill tree of my dreams the one I think about before I go to bed. The one that got away... This is the only change I would make since I think ipecaca could be great on its own. They make it slightly weaker (10?) And place it before bramble husk. This also gives them a reason to up the power of the husk. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149844-punished-for-leftover-skill-points-and-the-mess-that-is-wormwoods-skill-tree/#findComment-1654454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohan Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 In the wise words of a dst forumite: Wormwood’s skills are disastrous shXt. ive really come to hate character focused updates cuz klei is seemingly completely incapable of delivering consistent quality across the board, for every survivor. 6 hours ago, HowlVoid said: Why is only wormwood set up in this horrible way? Excellent question. The layout of ww’s tree is genuinely horrible. 43 minutes ago, Sapientis said: This gave me another look at his tree, check it out! I also had the idea of replacing butterfly friend with self-fert. It makes a great introductory skill for the “”combat”” side of the tree. Ideally butterfly friend would not just be moved up though and instead just completely removed or merged with bee kind. Ive said it before, this layout is leeeeeaaaaaguuueees better than the current one. But far from perfect considering u still have to put up with a lot of pointless skills. No amount of reorganization is gonna fix flytrap or sapling/berrybush/lureplant crafting, or both growth spurt skills etc —— im half amazed WW didnt get another patch before launch. Flytrap (a CAP STONE skill) getting released in its current state is so freaking funny. Also saladmanders that fall asleep for an unknowable amount of time after a single fight… i could go on. Outside of this beta, I have not played ww in ages ever since i got bored of him after a 1k days ww only world, this tree definitely did not reignite my interest in WW. i feel very bad for the dedicated ww players. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149844-punished-for-leftover-skill-points-and-the-mess-that-is-wormwoods-skill-tree/#findComment-1654461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
liuyuncangye Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 I agree Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149844-punished-for-leftover-skill-points-and-the-mess-that-is-wormwoods-skill-tree/#findComment-1654480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evelo Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 Just combining the two base starting talents into one with Seed Sleuth and Butterfly Friend would actually do so much it's kind of crazy. With it you can grab 5 in left tree, 5 in right tree, and 2 in both left and right post CC stuff. Give us a 3rd choice on right side to balance out choice on left and it'd be phenomenal. I'd love to have Saladmander followers whilst also having the combat bonuses. (my choice between two options). Really aggravated with this update even though the concept is growing on me. (Slowly mind you.) Considering the update is in less than 2 days my hopes for change have been falling faster than WW's health while on fire. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149844-punished-for-leftover-skill-points-and-the-mess-that-is-wormwoods-skill-tree/#findComment-1654484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakepeng99 Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 6 hours ago, Sapientis said: This gave me another look at his tree, check it out! I explain these ideas in my last topic, but I get it's quite loong... This looks really good. Though please swap the carrat skill and lightbug skill around, the carrat is the most useful transformation, and you are often able to get both the brightshade skills along with the carrat. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149844-punished-for-leftover-skill-points-and-the-mess-that-is-wormwoods-skill-tree/#findComment-1654526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milordo Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 Skill trees bad Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149844-punished-for-leftover-skill-points-and-the-mess-that-is-wormwoods-skill-tree/#findComment-1654528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fufuji Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 OMG what had happened to you my friend? You don't look well, you'd better find Wormwood to apply before the official update comes! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149844-punished-for-leftover-skill-points-and-the-mess-that-is-wormwoods-skill-tree/#findComment-1654594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLERMZ Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 Glad Woodie and Wolfgang got what they needed. Wormwood died for this. I feel your pain my fellow Wormwood. So much was done but so very little it mattered in the end. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149844-punished-for-leftover-skill-points-and-the-mess-that-is-wormwoods-skill-tree/#findComment-1654595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonz Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 They really left that butterfly skill. It's not useful. You can get used to killing them with any character really fast. It will grant you only hunger and character that can farm so good won't starve anyway. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149844-punished-for-leftover-skill-points-and-the-mess-that-is-wormwoods-skill-tree/#findComment-1654601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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