[Feedback] Can interaction between Planar and Health Absorption be changed?

[Hornete]

Hiya!

So, planar as of current penetrates through armors in the game, and you might have thought. "Huh! Can I use this to penetrate through armors of mobs?"

Unfortunately, no, because many mob "armors" aren't actual armor handled in the combat part of the game, but just a modifier applied to ALL health delta values. Planar is a purely combat related mechanic, so it doesn't penetrate through health absorption.

Currently this applies to following things like:

• Hiding Slurtles/Snurtles
• Hiding Cave Spider
• Shielded Celestial Champion
• Tree-buffed Toadstool
• Enraged Klaus
• Shielded Rock Lobsters
• Weremoose
• Wigfrid

In the case of Weremoose and Wigfrid, this is a good thing! And are able to protect from planar damage naturally. But I think it would be cool for this to be changed anyways to allow for the niche ability of penetrating through many other armored entities in the game.

Personally, implementation I would take is not actually changing the interaction between planar and health absorption, but just updating many armored entities in the game to have proper armor calculation take place during the combat part and throwing away the health absorption implementation for those entities. Just my take. Hope to see something!

Cheers.

[Cassielu]

Very good idea! This also greatly benefits non-physical damage weapon combat strategies such as fire and the end is near.

But I'm afraid this will lead to some inconsistency. Generally speaking, if someone having a physical armor means that the armor has a durability that can be consumed by attacks. It would be strange if some mobs had infinite durability armor and others didn't.

[_zwb]

That would go against the idea "new items shouldn't trivialise old items" so they probably wouldn't do that.

[Hornete]

52 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

Generally speaking, if someone having a physical armor means that the armor has a durability that can be consumed by attacks. It would be strange if some mobs had infinite durability armor and others didn't.

I'm not sure what this has to do with my suggestion, the situation you're describing is already what's happening in game! Some mobs has infinite durability armor, and some don't. I would argue the current situation where armored mobs and characters absorption applies to ANYTHING, even eaten foods is more inconsistent, , but to each their own.

14 minutes ago, _zwb said:

That would go against the idea "new items shouldn't trivialise old items" so they probably wouldn't do that.

I would argue BS sword already 'trivialises' dark sword, doing the same damage at base with the potential to do even more damage with set bonus, but I don't think that's a bad thing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, is just good ol' progression.

[Neu7ral]

THere's something that really bugged me since I really thought planar damage could go through absorbption but for some reason it doesn't...
And considering these items are supossed to be endgame items, yes, let planar ignore absorbption.
Makes Slurtle Hat farming way faster, helps against Toadstool, idk man it's cool.

[goatt]

I didn't know they don't penetrate mobs. I automatically assumed they would. Well, this system is a lot less interesting to me now.

[Cassielu]

49 minutes ago, Hornete said:

Some mobs has infinite durability armor, and some don't.

Wait, does it really exist? I thought all these mobs had was "modifier applied to ALL health delta values". Please tell me more about it.

In my understanding, the physical armor means that there is actually an item in the mob's inventory that provides protection, has durability, and drops when the mob dies. which is a whole mechanism. And what you're asking for is a new mechanism that's highly similar to it, but doesn't have everything behind it. "An armor with infinite durability and didn't drop". This will easy to get mixed up.

31 minutes ago, goatt said:

I didn't know they don't penetrate mobs

It doesn't "don't penetrate mobs," it just penetrates armor and affected by damage reduction like all other damage

When you play as Woodie, Warly, or Wigfrid, you can effectively combat with planar damage in the same way.

Conversely, if the splumonkey steals and wears your thulecite crown or other hat amor, you can also rely on planar damage to effectively kill it.

 

After so many damn "threats only spawn around you so the best way to protect what is precious to you is to stay away from it" and "You can only use it on only certain few mobs for no reason." stuff, I have to say that this mechanism of treating all living things equally is... very endearing.

[goatt]

6 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

It doesn't "don't penetrate mobs," it just penetrates armor and affected by damage reduction like all other damage

When you play as Woodie, Warly, or Wigfrid, you can effectively combat with planar damage in the same way.

Conversely, if the splumonkey steals and wears your thulecite crown or other hat amor, you can also rely on planar damage to effectively kill it.

That's exactly what I mean. And that's disappointing.

[Hornete]

6 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

Wait, does it really exist? I thought all these mobs had was "modifier applied to ALL health delta values". Please tell me more about it.

Oh my apologies, I am indeed referring to what you are talking about! The modifier applied to all health delta values. But I was talking from the perspective of the player. When they find and interact with these mobs, they'll interpret them as armored mobs, not mobs with a modifier applied to all health delta's. That's what I meant. 

[_zwb]

41 minutes ago, Hornete said:

I would argue BS sword already 'trivialises' dark sword, doing the same damage at base with the potential to do even more damage with set bonus, but I don't think that's a bad thing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, is just good ol' progression.

The set bonus requires a specific armour, meaning you can't use bee Queen crown/bone helm etc etc, that's a choice to make. But if the planar damage ignores mob armour then bosses like toadstools would look like a joke(and I absolutely love that, they should rework toadstool already), I don't know, it seems a bit too good in certain situations.

[Arcwell]

22 minutes ago, _zwb said:

But if the planar damage ignores mob armour then bosses like toadstools would look like a joke(and I absolutely love that, they should rework toadstool already), I don't know, it seems a bit too good in certain situations.

This would not at all trivialize the Toadstool fight. If anything, it would make for a viable challenging alternative to chopping trees for 10+ minutes.

Toadstool without trees takes 684 hits to kill with brightshade weapons/armor, or 592 hits with void weapons/armor.

If planar damage ignored Toadstool's 80% damage reduction when 8+ sporecaps are active, you would still need 1211 hits to kill with brightshade weapons/armor, or 949 hits with void weapons/armor. All of this while Toadstool would be dealing 2.5x as much damage, attacking 75% faster, and moving 433% faster.

Damage calcs:

Spoiler

• Brightshade vs. Toadstool: 52,500 hp / ((38 * 1.1) physical damage + (30 + 5) planar damage) = 683.59 hits (round up to 684)
• Brightshade vs. Toadstool w/trees: 52,500 hp / ((38 * 1.1 * 0.2) physical damage + (30 + 5) planar damage) = 1210.79 hits (round up to 1211)
• Void vs. Toadstool: 52,500 hp / ((38 * 1.1) physical damage + (18 + 5 + 24) planar damage) = 591.22 hits (round up to 592)
• Void vs. Toadstool w/trees: 52,500 hp / ((38 * 1.1 * 0.2) physical damage + (18 + 5 + 24) planar damage) = 948.34 hits (round up to 949)

[dois raios]

2 hours ago, Neu7ral said:

THere's something that really bugged me since I really thought planar damage could go through absorbption

Planar damage goes through armor, but planar damage will be affect by planar defense AND/OR damage reduction mechanics.

op is asking to make damage reduction mechanic also not affect planar damage.

(Please, do correct me if I am wrong, these new mechanics are kinda confusing for me)

[Neu7ral]

13 minutes ago, dois raios said:

(Please, do correct me if I am wrong, these new mechanics are kinda confusing for me)

You are correct but I already know all of that.

"I really thought planar damage could go through absorption*"

I am surprised the fact planar damage doesn't ignore absorption.

[Antynomity]

3 hours ago, _zwb said:

That would go against the idea "new items shouldn't trivialise old items" so they probably wouldn't do that.

or maybe it's to make it consistent and less confusing? these mechanics are already stupidly complex might as well simplify them for the sake of making them better and learning convenience?