skill tree idea Edited 08-02-2024 Webber skill tree suggestions also Klei I don’t care about credit add or take inspiration from any of my suggestions as you please all I ask is you take them into consideration+Fan ideas welcome(great place to use to make everyone happy)

[Creatingabe1125]

17 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

If we make them shadow with shadow merms router, switcher doodles we should probably have them become that way the same way as shadow mars or how to break out their shelves like the shadow pieces break out of the statues

Do you mean when discovering them or the visual design upon switcherdoodle consumption?

17 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

If we do that, we should probably do it with the pre-existing shattered dens since the quotes for a shattered spiders reveal that the mutation has a negative effect on them so if we use the pre-existing ones we were giving back mobility, to them and have them produce both enlightened spiders and shattered spiders We should probably just scrap the queen spawning thing and maybe replace it with a different spawning thing or some other thing

Though I think it’s better to do it with new spider queens as with the method you suggested, you’d either have to kill a spider queen or use the limited ones on lunar island. And it’d be like you’re also mutating them but you’re doing it right.

17 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

Maybe we should make the lunar one act like that as well

I kind of want to try to make the shattered queen and flags of rallying work, and my current logic is that the lunar side would focus more on a few queens making them strong, while the shadow side would focus more on strengthening all the spiders in planar and other ares. While the flags would still add shadow spiders and the queens could add a small boost to befriended spiders. Although that explanation is mostly an excuse to keep both as I really like them and find it hard to think of something better.

17 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

Thanks

A starter is that most of the skill tree would be in a heart shaped background with the friendship side being top left, web action being on the top right, and inner arachnid being at the bottom of the heart.

Inner arachnid:

It’s first skill would be the sleeping den buff, and then it would have 4 skills connected to it.

Below it would be the 2 healing skills. To the top left of the first skill would be no picky eater which then leads to the acid rain perk below it. To the bottom right of the first skill would be the night vision one, which then leads to the monkey like speed bonus skill.

Friendship:

It would start with the shoe box skill, then lead to the more spiders per meat skill which leads to the more switcher doodles on the top right and on the main branch to queen decorator, unbreakable friendship with a spider queen requirement next, and then to the unnatural brood and then to the carecrafts.

Web Action:

It would start with the less silk per upgrade skill, then have a side branch for social hunting which then leads to the work skill. Continuing on the main branch would be the silk fashionire, den relocater skill after, silk stitch after that, and finally the silk crafts.

Garden skills:

The garden spiders would be below the friendship branch, either connecting to the branch or require a set amount of skill and another requirement to access.

The other 2 farming skills would be below the Web action section and would work similar to the garden spiders skill.

The affinities would be at the sides or top corners outside the heart. Feel free to change it however you want, this is just a starter idea for the skill tree.

17 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

I could also make it so garden spiders linked to garden spider

Maybe the requirement for the skill could be to harvest and collect a certain amount of crops, and to unlock the switcherdoodles, you’d need to plant, tend, and harvest to giants of their respective kind.

[Dr.Webber]

2 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Do you mean when discovering them or the visual design upon switcherdoodle consumption?

I mean if we make them actual shadows, we probably shouldn’t do switcherdoodles and do it the ways I mentioned

 

2 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Though I think it’s better to do it with new spider queens as with the method you suggested, you’d either have to kill a spider queen or use the limited ones on lunar island. And it’d be like you’re also mutating them but you’re doing it right

Shark spiders aren’t mutated right themselves, so how would turn Queens into a shattered variant, be doing it right

 

2 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

I kind of want to try to make the shattered queen and flags of rallying work, and my current logic is that the lunar side would focus more on a few queens making them strong, while the shadow side would focus more on strengthening all the spiders in planar and other ares. While the flags would still add shadow spiders and the queens could add a small boost to befriended spiders. Although that explanation is mostly an excuse to keep both as I really like them and find it hard to think of something better.

Having a set up like described skews the chances of picking shadow side because it’s simply more useful if you wanna keep them both, we could combine them in someway and make shadow and lunar variants of that

 

2 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

A starter is that most of the skill tree would be in a heart shaped background with the friendship side being top left, web action being on the top right, and inner arachnid being at the bottom of the heart.

Inner arachnid:

It’s first skill would be the sleeping den buff, and then it would have 4 skills connected to it.

Below it would be the 2 healing skills. To the top left of the first skill would be no picky eater which then leads to the acid rain perk below it. To the bottom right of the first skill would be the night vision one, which then leads to the monkey like speed bonus skill.

Friendship:

It would start with the shoe box skill, then lead to the more spiders per meat skill which leads to the more switcher doodles on the top right and on the main branch to queen decorator, unbreakable friendship with a spider queen requirement next, and then to the unnatural brood and then to the carecrafts.

Web Action:

It would start with the less silk per upgrade skill, then have a side branch for social hunting which then leads to the work skill. Continuing on the main branch would be the silk fashionire, den relocater skill after, silk stitch after that, and finally the silk crafts.

Garden skills:

The garden spiders would be below the friendship branch, either connecting to the branch or require a set amount of skill and another requirement to access.

The other 2 farming skills would be below the Web action section and would work similar to the garden spiders skill.

The affinities would be at the sides or top corners outside the heart. Feel free to change it however you want, this is just a starter idea for the skill tree.

I feel like you shouldn’t need much to unlock garden spiders also I feel like only discuss relevant to each other should be connected or at least less of them should be connected so it’s more user-friendly like they should be able to choose skills without being locked into choosing other skills that they may not want

 

2 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Maybe the requirement for the skill could be to harvest and collect a certain amount of crops, and to unlock the switcherdoodles, you’d need to plant, tend, and harvest to giants of their respective kind.

Ok

[Dr.Webber]

If we’re going with shadow spiders being actual SHADOW spiders perhaps we should add this person’s idea

 

[Creatingabe1125]

On 10/31/2025 at 12:18 AM, Dr.Webber said:

I mean if we make them actual shadows, we probably shouldn’t do switcherdoodles and do it the ways I mentioned

Why not? Just because it’s a shadow doesn’t mean it has to be that method only. Take for example shadow splumonkeys, they’re see through yet don’t break out of their body.

On 10/31/2025 at 12:18 AM, Dr.Webber said:

Shark spiders aren’t mutated right themselves, so how would turn Queens into a shattered variant, be doing it right

By letting the spider queen move and act like an actual spider queen instead of a stationary nest. TBH I don’t know if there’s a “right” way for the moon to mutate something but I’m already invested in the shattered spider queen because having personal spider queens that have planar powers is a really cool way to improve your spider army post-rift or even in late game fights like AFW.

On 10/31/2025 at 12:18 AM, Dr.Webber said:

Having a set up like described skews the chances of picking shadow side because it’s simply more useful if you wanna keep them both, we could combine them in someway and make shadow and lunar variants of that

Which one are you saying would be picked more? And if we were theoretically able to make both of them equally good candidates to pick while still keeping them unique like now, would you be fine with it? And I think it is possible as both are interesting with both spider queen servants and a new void gear item with potential for interesting abilities.

On 10/31/2025 at 12:18 AM, Dr.Webber said:

I feel like you shouldn’t need much to unlock garden spiders also I feel like only discuss relevant to each other should be connected or at least less of them should be connected so it’s more user-friendly like they should be able to choose skills without being locked into choosing other skills that they may not want

 

You could change the tree if you want as my idea was simply a suggestion of mine for you to build on. That’s understandable but also the best skills should be locked behind some insight so it’s balanced and you have to think carefully for which one to choose.

On 10/31/2025 at 1:06 AM, Dr.Webber said:

If we’re going with shadow spiders being actual SHADOW spiders perhaps we should add this person’s idea

I’m not so sure as it might make it harder to preform actions on certain spiders like for armor or maybe other things and there might be reason shadow merms still have collisions (atleast I think they do). Though I’m not really against it.

[Dr.Webber]

11 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Why not? Just because it’s a shadow doesn’t mean it has to be that method only. Take for example shadow splumonkeys, they’re see through yet don’t break out of their body.

On 10/30/2025 at 11:18 PM, Dr.Webber said:

 they’re not actually see-through and there’s a reason why merms have to die first it’s the same with the ancient and  terror beaks(and maybe crawling horrors in the other shadow creatures I haven’t really seen any bodies that look like them nor any statues that look like them either so I’m really not sure on that)

 

11 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

By letting the spider queen move and act like an actual spider queen instead of a stationary nest. TBH I don’t know if there’s a “right” way for the moon to mutate something but I’m already invested in the shattered spider queen because having personal spider queens that have planar powers is a really cool way to improve your spider army post-rift or even in late game fights like AFW

That’s why I suggested either changing pre-existing shattered dens(which actors watching a video on the update looks like a better option than when I suggested due to buzzards making them renewable and on the main island) or we make it in enlightened queen. We can also make a shadow variant if like the idea spider Queen working for you so much

 

11 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Which one are you saying would be picked more? And if we were theoretically able to make both of them equally good candidates to pick while still keeping them unique like now, would you be fine with it? And I think it is possible as both are interesting with both spider queen servants and a new void gear item with potential for interesting abilities.

The shadow one 

I mean, I could prefer them be more similar to each other but yeah I’d be fine with it if they were equally good candidates

11 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

You could change the tree if you want as my idea was simply a suggestion of mine for you to build on. That’s understandable but also the best skills should be locked behind some insight so it’s balanced and you have to think carefully for which one to choose.

On 10/31/2025 at 12:06 AM, Dr.Webber said:

If we’re going with shadow spiders being actual SHADOW spiders perhaps we should add this person’s idea

I’m not so sure as it might make it harder to preform actions on certain spiders like for armor or maybe other things and there might be reason shadow merms still have collisions (atleast I think they do). Though I’m not really against it.

Ok

[Creatingabe1125]

On 11/2/2025 at 11:45 PM, Dr.Webber said:

they’re not actually see-through and there’s a reason why merms have to die first it’s the same with the ancient and  terror beaks(and maybe crawling horrors in the other shadow creatures I haven’t really seen any bodies that look like them nor any statues that look like them either so I’m really not sure on that)

Whenever I found an image with a shadow splumonkey, I could see the markings of the turf behind it with that shadow tint. It also has that pixely look that nightmares have at the edges. So I thought they were shadow like. And even if that’s not the case, I don’t see any problems with the use of switcherdoodles as lunar and shadow magic seems to adapt into many different uses, and why couldn’t it adapt to Webber’s method as well.

On 11/2/2025 at 11:45 PM, Dr.Webber said:

That’s why I suggested either changing pre-existing shattered dens(which actors watching a video on the update looks like a better option than when I suggested due to buzzards making them renewable and on the main island) or we make it in enlightened queen. We can also make a shadow variant if like the idea spider Queen working for you so much

I’m not a fan of neither because the shattered spider dens are more limited, or you’d have to kill a spider queen, deal with annoying buzzards, the spider queen already feels gone in the den form, and its more simple and easier to just deal with a normal spider queen. I prefer it stayed the shattered variant for both these reasons. Mutating a spider queen that actually fights for you instead of being stuck feels more appealing instead of just doing the more planar aligned variant and honoring the first lunar variant, while it might be too good to get a constant supply of enlightened spider.

On 11/2/2025 at 11:45 PM, Dr.Webber said:

The shadow one 

I mean, I could prefer them be more similar to each other but yeah I’d be fine with it if they were equally good candidates

What makes you think the shadow one would get picked more?

[Dr.Webber]

3 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Whenever I found an image with a shadow splumonkey, I could see the markings of the turf behind it with that shadow tint. It also has that pixely look that nightmares have at the edges. So I thought they were shadow like. And even if that’s not the case, I don’t see any problems with the use of switcherdoodles as lunar and shadow magic seems to adapt into many different uses, and why couldn’t it adapt to Webber’s method as well.

I’m not saying we can’t use switcherdoodles I’m just saying if we do it it would be more along the lines of shadow woby 

 

4 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

the spider queen already feels gone in the den form

In den form they twitch 

4 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

I’m not a fan of neither because the shattered spider dens are more limited, or you’d have to kill a spider queen, deal with annoying buzzards, the spider queen already feels gone in the den form, and its more simple and easier to just deal with a normal spider queen. I prefer it stayed the shattered variant for both these reasons. Mutating a spider queen that actually fights for you instead of being stuck feels more appealing instead of just doing the more planar aligned variant and honoring the first lunar variant, while it might be too good to get a constant supply of enlightened spider.

When you say you prefer shattered for those two reasons do you mean what comes before that sentence or what comes after because what comes before that sentence is just reasons not to do that and for after they will still mutate to work with you rather than being stuck and there’s no reason to honor, shattered spiders but I guess you’re right about producing enlightened spiders would be a little too good

 

4 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

What makes you think the shadow one would get picked more?

 Well, from how you described it the shadow one seems more useful and fun and although the idea of having spider queens work for you is certainly interesting. It doesn’t seem nearly as useful or fun.

[Creatingabe1125]

2 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

I’m not saying we can’t use switcherdoodles I’m just saying if we do it it would be more along the lines of shadow woby

What do you mean by “more along the lines of shadow woby”?

2 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

In den form they twitch

To be fair they don’t seem to have much life and frog legs twitch too yet are still dead.

2 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

When you say you prefer shattered for those two reasons do you mean what comes before that sentence or what comes after because what comes before that sentence is just reasons not to do that and for after they will still mutate to work with you rather than being stuck and there’s no reason to honor, shattered spiders but I guess you’re right about producing enlightened spiders would be a little too good

The first part or the before those 2 reasons was about why it shouldn’t work on shattered spider dens. The next part or after was about those 2 reasons.

Although after taking another look, I think I should correct what I said to what I meant. When I said for both these reasons I meant for 2 types of reasons, one being to make it more satisfying and the other being logical or gameplay reasons.

For my first reason, I meant that it seems more appealing to have the chance to instead of having a usually soulless shattered hole, to instead have a living version of that spider queen and see what they would do walking instead of twitching, and to have it on your side. It’d be like rediscovering a fossil and being able to have it come to life.

For your response to the honoring reason, technically yes but it feels wrong to disregard the shattered spiders from the lunar alignments completely as it’s still a lunar spider type at least to me.

3 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

Well, from how you described it the shadow one seems more useful and fun and although the idea of having spider queens work for you is certainly interesting. It doesn’t seem nearly as useful or fun.

The ideas are not finished yet but how I thought of it is that the Shattered spider queens would act as planar tanks that summons befriended spider for YOU to claim and use, including nurses and shattered ones. While with the current flag, you could already get all those effects. Meanwhile you can’t currently get a planar tank spider that also summons spiders loyal to you.

I think they’re both interesting, but need to be balanced and the flag needs to be reworked a bit.

[Dr.Webber]

1 minute ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

What do you mean by “more along the lines of shadow woby”?

3 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

Woby still has a physical body but can teleport in her larger form

 

7 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

To be fair they don’t seem to have much life and frog legs twitch too yet are still dead.

3 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

That’s because they twitch in real life spider legs don’t twitch in real life after they’re dead and in all other examples of the lunar buzzards mutating a dead mob, they bring them back to life

 

16 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

For my first reason, I meant that it seems more appealing to have the chance to instead of having a usually soulless shattered hole, to instead have a living version of that spider queen and see what they would do walking instead of twitching, and to have it on your side. It’d be like rediscovering a fossil and being able to have it come to life.

But that only works as a concept when your rediscovering the fossil rather than making a more active version of the fossil out of a relative of the fossil

 

22 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

For your response to the honoring reason, technically yes but it feels wrong to disregard the shattered spiders from the lunar alignments completely as it’s still a lunar spider type at least to me.

We could be able to turn both shattered dens and normal dens into enlightened queens so the whole shattered subspecies isn’t left behind while still having turnable dens being plentiful enough 

 

30 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

The ideas are not finished yet but how I thought of it is that the Shattered spider queens would act as planar tanks that summons befriended spider for YOU to claim and use, including nurses and shattered ones. While with the current flag, you could already get all those effects. Meanwhile you can’t currently get a planar tank spider that also summons spiders loyal to you.

I think they’re both interesting, but need to be balanced and the flag needs to be reworked a bit.

Ok

[Dr.Webber]

We got the final product for the hypothetical Weber skin and corresponding unnatural broad baby baby spider:

(the spiders go down to the size of a baby spider and his smiling like a befriended 

[Creatingabe1125]

On 11/4/2025 at 4:58 PM, Dr.Webber said:

Woby still has a physical body but can teleport in her larger form

 

That’s because they twitch in real life spider legs don’t twitch in real life after they’re dead and in all other examples of the lunar buzzards mutating a dead mob, they bring them back to life

 

But that only works as a concept when your rediscovering the fossil rather than making a more active version of the fossil out of a relative of the fossil

 

We could be able to turn both shattered dens and normal dens into enlightened queens so the whole shattered subspecies isn’t left behind while still having turnable dens being plentiful enough 

 

Ok

Incomplete Ideas:

The Flags of Rallying gets the ability to revive some of the spiders you lost in battle. I still need to be sure how to incorporate it like should it revive them into shadow spiders or their original variant and how to keep it balanced. And I’m was trying to improve the other abilities. My idea is for it to be a boost item for certain times in the battle.

The shattered spider queen would still look similar to the shattered spider hole, but have parts with gestalt energy to connect it with the enlightened side as it does deal planar damage. Basically it’d be a fusion of shattered and enlightenment. And I’d rather have it work on normal spider queens only because it doesn’t make sense to target either limited ones all the way on lunar island or to kill a spider queen, the shattered spider queen in the form of a den seems too messed up to be revived, and my idea on how it’d work is the spider queen would be beckoned to join you and their spirit would enter your homemade shell, which would have them turn into a nest and later be revived in the form of a shattered spider queen crawling up from the ground, and I prefer recruiting a royal spider queen then a weakened one unable to move properly.

For the fossil part, I meant to use fossil as in like lost or abandoned. I don’t think I meant the body as a fossil even though it’d seem that way.

Arguably, didn’t the ancient transform by using too much nightmare fuel, and shadow switcherdoodles would be made of that very thing. If you really wanted to go for the route of other shadow creatures, the switcherdoodle effect could represent the spiders shedding their skin.

[Dr.Webber]

11 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Incomplete Ideas:

The Flags of Rallying gets the ability to revive some of the spiders you lost in battle. I still need to be sure how to incorporate it like should it revive them into shadow spiders or their original variant and how to keep it balanced. And I’m was trying to improve the other abilities. My idea is for it to be a boost item for certain times in the battle.

The shattered spider queen would still look similar to the shattered spider hole, but have parts with gestalt energy to connect it with the enlightened side as it does deal planar damage. Basically it’d be a fusion of shattered and enlightenment. And I’d rather have it work on normal spider queens only because it doesn’t make sense to target either limited ones all the way on lunar island or to kill a spider queen, the shattered spider queen in the form of a den seems too messed up to be revived, and my idea on how it’d work is the spider queen would be beckoned to join you and their spirit would enter your homemade shell, which would have them turn into a nest and later be revived in the form of a shattered spider queen crawling up from the ground, and I prefer recruiting a royal spider queen then a weakened one unable to move properly.

For the fossil part, I meant to use fossil as in like lost or abandoned. I don’t think I meant the body as a fossil even though it’d seem that way.

Arguably, didn’t the ancient transform by using too much nightmare fuel, and shadow switcherdoodles would be made of that very thing. If you really wanted to go for the route of other shadow creatures, the switcherdoodle effect could represent the spiders shedding their skin.

I think you’re on the right track with the flag of rallying but I love you very much but I don’t know if revival would be redundant since we already have a revival  thing

Correct me if I’m wrong, but what your suggestion is turning perfectly healthy spider Queens into walking versions of the unhealthily mutated form of them except walking and introduced with planar energy. I get it if it was just the shattered spider holes at least you’re giving them back though ability to walk rather than just twitching around (which by the way, I don’t understand how expanding what you can use along with him being able to help those with harmful mutations) also there are already alive(and so are normal dens) and the point is to fix what’s messed up also the point is to strengthen those still royal from their weakened state (if we go the route of only changing normal spider queens limitation should be different from Charlotte spiders because that mutation is harmful maybe we can make it similar but not just that mutation plus infused with gas energy)

they are abandoned

if that’s them drop in their bodies then all their loot should drop when they do it which doesn’t happen with other switcher doodles so it’ll be out of place(why are you against the idea of them having physical bodies)

maybe you should just make normal spider queens be able to be under the effect of the webballs/totem

[Creatingabe1125]

On 11/11/2025 at 9:33 AM, Dr.Webber said:

I think you’re on the right track with the flag of rallying but I love you very much but I don’t know if revival would be redundant since we already have a revival  thing

Though the flags of rallying would only revive a random amount of them into shadow spiders, and only like 33% or something. Plus that wouldn’t be its only perk.

On 11/11/2025 at 9:33 AM, Dr.Webber said:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but what your suggestion is turning perfectly healthy spider Queens into walking versions of the unhealthily mutated form of them except walking and introduced with planar energy. I get it if it was just the shattered spider holes at least you’re giving them back though ability to walk rather than just twitching around (which by the way, I don’t understand how expanding what you can use along with him being able to help those with harmful mutations) also there are already alive(and so are normal dens) and the point is to fix what’s messed up also the point is to strengthen those still royal from their weakened state (if we go the route of only changing normal spider queens limitation should be different from Charlotte spiders because that mutation is harmful maybe we can make it similar but not just that mutation plus infused with gas energy)

they are abandoned

Idea: Would you be fine if the story for its appearance is that it’s a spider queen with a little lunar mutated body but nothing like shattered and is mainly just a recolor. And its main body is just covered by a shell that has shattered like aspects with enlightened energy but the actual body is fine. That matches with how you’d get the spider queen, it satisfies me by being inspired by the shattered spider, and it’d still be healthy just empowered by the shell’s lunar influence. Idk how exactly the design would look nor do I think I could describe one well.

On 11/11/2025 at 9:33 AM, Dr.Webber said:

if that’s them drop in their bodies then all their loot should drop when they do it which doesn’t happen with other switcher doodles so it’ll be out of place(why are you against the idea of them having physical bodies)

It feels more right to use shadows as most shadow based servants that are usually in groups are shadows or shadow like. I personally prefer the simpler idea and design of shadow spiders, but it makes sense too. I also don’t think shadow appearance is necessarily linked to death.

On 11/11/2025 at 9:33 AM, Dr.Webber said:

maybe you should just make normal spider queens be able to be under the effect of the webballs/totem

I prefer the special lunar shell version.

Edited November 14, 2025 by Creatingabe1125

[Dr.Webber]

36 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

hough the flags of rallying would only revive a random amount of them into shadow spiders, and only like 33% or something. Plus that wouldn’t be its only perk.

Ok

 

36 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

dea: Would you be fine if the story for its appearance is that it’s a spider queen with a little lunar mutated body but nothing like shattered and is mainly just a recolor. And its main body is just covered by a shell that has shattered like aspects with enlightened energy but the actual body is fine. That matches with how you’d get the spider queen, it satisfies me by being inspired by the shattered spider, and it’d still be healthy just empowered by the shell’s lunar influence. Idk how exactly the design would look nor do I think I could describe one well.

Ya

 

36 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

It feels more right to use shadows as most shadow based servants that are usually in groups are shadows or shadow like. I personally prefer the simpler idea and design of shadow spiders, but it makes sense too. I also don’t think shadow appearance is necessarily linked to death.

I guess you’re right about the shadow based servant thing

what design I would that be?

Unless we’re including shadows splumonkeys which the design is different the normal shadows or Maxwell’s shadow puppets which were alive previous to be the shadow then all evidence points to the contrary

[Creatingabe1125]

5 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

I guess you’re right about the shadow based servant thing

what design I would that be?

Unless we’re including shadows splumonkeys which the design is different the normal shadows or Maxwell’s shadow puppets which were alive previous to be the shadow then all evidence points to the contrary

I was just thinking a usual spider body but shadow instead. With maybe a few body changes to make it look like a special warrior type spider. The spiders would probably be able to be changed with other switcherdoodles.

[Dr.Webber]

31 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

I was just thinking a usual spider body but shadow instead. With maybe a few body changes to make it look like a special warrior type spider. The spiders would probably be able to be changed with other switcherdoodles.

If we went with the shadow splumonkeys look if that’s what you’re suggested here that we could make it so all spiders turned that way during the nightmare phase And have all the spiders turned into a enlighted spiders during the full moon but if we go that way, we wouldn’t have switcherdoodles for the alignments

Though if we do, do what switcherdoodles i’d prefer we go to the shadow woby route

 

[Creatingabe1125]

On 11/13/2025 at 9:45 PM, Dr.Webber said:

If we went with the shadow splumonkeys look if that’s what you’re suggested here that we could make it so all spiders turned that way during the nightmare phase And have all the spiders turned into a enlighted spiders during the full moon but if we go that way, we wouldn’t have switcherdoodles for the alignments

Though if we do, do what switcherdoodles i’d prefer we go to the shadow woby route

 

That wouldn’t work well as you couldn’t use enlightened spiders in caves and shadow spiders on land.

Why do you want to go the shadow Woby route instead of shadow spiders for the switcherdoodles?

[Dr.Webber]

50 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Why do you want to go the shadow Woby route instead of shadow spiders for the switcherdoodles?

All of their examples of something that wasn’t previously shadow Becoming a shadow they have to die first you have expressed you don’t want them to die first and that you want them to use a switcherdoodle and if you want the little web thing they do when they transform between spider types they would need to drop their loot when they transform also they wouldn’t be able to transform to other spiders once they became shadows(and if we went through route of shadow splumonkeys which look different from other shadow type thingsthe only time they’ve been shown to turn into their shadow form is during the nightmare phase so we don’t know how it would hypothetically work outside of that also how I imagined the design of it is uncreative)

while the shadow woby route doesn’t need a death You can turn them into other spiders anytime you can use switcher doodles to make it who would have a creative design

oh, and I forgot did we ever land on what the switcher doodle for enlighted spiders would be, and if we’re still doing the feeding of moon glass to shattered spiders because if we are I feel like we should do something for shadow akin to that

[Creatingabe1125]

On 11/15/2025 at 10:33 AM, Dr.Webber said:

All of their examples of something that wasn’t previously shadow Becoming a shadow they have to die first you have expressed you don’t want them to die first and that you want them to use a switcherdoodle and if you want the little web thing they do when they transform between spider types they would need to drop their loot when they transform also they wouldn’t be able to transform to other spiders once they became shadows(and if we went through route of shadow splumonkeys which look different from other shadow type thingsthe only time they’ve been shown to turn into their shadow form is during the nightmare phase so we don’t know how it would hypothetically work outside of that also how I imagined the design of it is uncreative)

while the shadow woby route doesn’t need a death You can turn them into other spiders anytime you can use switcher doodles to make it who would have a creative design

oh, and I forgot did we ever land on what the switcher doodle for enlighted spiders would be, and if we’re still doing the feeding of moon glass to shattered spiders because if we are I feel like we should do something for shadow akin to that

The nightmare phase indicates the level of shadow magic in the caves, and the splumonkeys respond to it by transforming. Perhaps the shadow switcherdoodle could increase the level of shadow magic inside the spiders, and permanently transform them like the ancients?

My original idea for the switcherdoodle was like 1 monster meat, 3 silk, and 3 moon shards. Though I had the thought of replacing the monster meat with something else like 1 moonrock or something else to make it unique. And I had the idea of discovering it by exposing it deep into lunar fissures but I’m not sure about that yet.

I had the idea to give revived spiders an effect that reduces normal damage and planar damage on them from the flags of rallying. I also considered adding some sort of quick and strong healing and a planar dmg boost of some kind.

And maybe the shattered spider queens could strengthen or interact with nearby enlightened spiders as well.

[Dr.Webber]

16 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

The nightmare phase indicates the level of shadow magic in the caves, and the splumonkeys respond to it by transforming. Perhaps the shadow switcherdoodle could increase the level of shadow magic inside the spiders, and permanently transform them like the ancients?

The ancients had to die first

 

16 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

My original idea for the switcherdoodle was like 1 monster meat, 3 silk, and 3 moon shards. Though I had the thought of replacing the monster meat with something else like 1 moonrock or something else to make it unique. And I had the idea of discovering it by exposing it deep into lunar fissures but I’m not sure about that yet.

Moon shards already have a corresponding switcher doodle. Maybe we should use a shattered spider switcher doodle in place of the moon glass in the enlightened spider switcher doodle what so I feel like if we don’t use monster meat, we might as well make it a whole different item rather than a switcher doodle maybe we should just forgo switcher doodles  in favor of something else

 

16 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

I had the idea to give revived spiders an effect that reduces normal damage and planar damage on them from the flags of rallying. I also considered adding some sort of quick and strong healing and a planar dmg boost of some kind.

And maybe the shattered spider queens could strengthen or interact with nearby enlightened spiders as well.

That sounds cool although I don’t think we should call them shattered spider Queens it doesn’t have to be enlightened spider Queen but with it somewhat resembling child spiders, but looking healthy, it doesn’t really carry that damaged aspect of being shattered so maybe we should call so glass spread the queen or crystalline spider queen work out with something simple like lunar spider queen, or something else

[Creatingabe1125]

On 11/20/2025 at 12:47 AM, Dr.Webber said:

The ancients had to die first

Couldn’t the spiders do the same thing in a theory? They’d still be alive in a shadowy form and how would Webber know that they die. Plus it seems like something the shadows would do.

On 11/20/2025 at 12:47 AM, Dr.Webber said:

Moon shards already have a corresponding switcher doodle. Maybe we should use a shattered spider switcher doodle in place of the moon glass in the enlightened spider switcher doodle what so I feel like if we don’t use monster meat, we might as well make it a whole different item rather than a switcher doodle maybe we should just forgo switcher doodles  in favor of something else

Including the shattered switcherdoodle in the recipe or just upgrading it does seem like a good idea.

On 11/20/2025 at 12:47 AM, Dr.Webber said:

That sounds cool although I don’t think we should call them shattered spider Queens it doesn’t have to be enlightened spider Queen but with it somewhat resembling child spiders, but looking healthy, it doesn’t really carry that damaged aspect of being shattered so maybe we should call so glass spread the queen or crystalline spider queen work out with something simple like lunar spider queen, or something else

I was more so thinking about the shell being shattered but what about something like the bright-shelled spider queen or moon bound instead.

 

 

I’m on the fence about the planar totems as the web balls already provide planar dmg and with the current totem of friendship providing good protection and with enough nurses or healing, would they even need planar defense to survive?

Though I had some ideas for how the totems would differentiate in recipes. The friendship totem would cost 1 living log, 8 silk, and 1 red gem, and would lose 2% durability per dead spider. The kinship totem would cost 2 living logs, 4 beard hair, and 1 purple gem, and would have a 1/2 - 2 day duration depending on how many spiders are being affected.

 

And for the ideas that you asked if you should add, do you have enough space in the skill tree or skills to add them?

[Dr.Webber]

28 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Couldn’t the spiders do the same thing in a theory? They’d still be alive in a shadowy form and how would Webber know that they die. Plus it seems like something the shadows would do.

What do you mean?

 

28 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

I was more so thinking about the shell being shattered but what about something like the bright-shelled spider queen

Yeah, that sounds good

 

28 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Though I had some ideas for how the totems would differentiate in recipes. The friendship totem would cost 1 living log, 8 silk, and 1 red gem, and would lose 2% durability per dead spider. The kinship totem would cost 2 living logs, 4 beard hair, and 1 purple gem, and would have a 1/2 - 2 day duration depending on how many spiders are being affected.

We merged the totems into one remember although that change in crafting recipe is a good idea

28 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

And for the ideas that you asked if you should add, do you have enough space in the skill tree or skills to add them?

I don’t know I was thinking maybe merge it with other skills, but I don’t know which skills

Edited November 24, 2025 by Dr.Webber

[Dr.Webber]

36 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

I’m on the fence about the planar totems as the web balls already provide planar dmg and with the current totem of friendship providing good protection and with enough nurses or healing, would they even need planar defense to survive?

I think it’s the natural progression of things Since the merged version of the  totem of my friendship provides both def and dmg so it would make sense to add a bit of planar defense and damage also I feel like it would be more in character for Webber to give defense

[Creatingabe1125]

9 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

What do you mean?

You know how the ancients overused shadow magic and shed their skin? Something similar could happen with the switcherdoodle. I’m not sure if the ancients died with shadow clones in their place or if their souls are the shadows, but both theories could be applied to the shadow switcherdoodle and spider.

9 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

We merged the totems into one remember although that change in crafting recipe is a good idea

Didn’t remember that.

9 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

I don’t know I was thinking maybe merge it with other skills, but I don’t know which skills

Are there any of those suggested ideas you’d want to have in your skill tree and be willing to replace another skill with it?

9 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

I think it’s the natural progression of things Since the merged version of the  totem of my friendship provides both def and dmg so it would make sense to add a bit of planar defense and damage also I feel like it would be more in character for Webber to give defense

I still feel a bit on the fence about it as I kind of see its use but it doesn’t feel needed enough to justify adding it, at least to me. My idea for it was to have it scale similarly to the normal version and you’d upgrade it with a pure brilliance/horror.

[Dr.Webber]

1 hour ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

You know how the ancients overused shadow magic and shed their skin? Something similar could happen with the switcherdoodle. I’m not sure if the ancients died with shadow clones in their place or if their souls are the shadows, but both theories could be applied to the shadow switcherdoodle and spider.

They would need to drop their drops if they’re shutting their skin also we wouldn’t be able to turn them back in to other spiders both things no other switcher doodle causes

 

1 hour ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Are there any of those suggested ideas you’d want to have in your skill tree and be willing to replace another skill with it?

I don’t know about replacing any skills with the ideas, but I do like the idea of giving more use to switcher doodles 

 

1 hour ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

I still feel a bit on the fence about it as I kind of see its use but it doesn’t feel needed enough to justify adding it, at least to me. My idea for it was to have it scale similarly to the normal version and you’d upgrade it with a pure brilliance/horror.

I was thinking more of you use the normal version just once you unlock the alignments you’re able to share a little bit of your planar defense and damage with your spider friends also upgrading it with pure brilliance/horror seems a bit pricey, based on the fact that we’re trying to keep the actual alignment variance early game accessible