A small and probably frivelous irritation: spawning treeguards

[ShadowbirdRH]

It just bugs me that this is a Woody perk instead of a Wormwood one. Only reasons one would want to spawn treeguards is for living logs (Wormwood's signature ability) or to use them to assist in battle against something (again, something that seems more Wormwood-aligned). It doesn't help that Woody's always bugged me with his hatred of all things beaked and feathered, but this just feels to me like it's stepping on Wormwood's toes, er... roots, when the Wormwood skill tree is already rather underwhelming.

I suppose this isn't so much a call for change as it is just to get that off my chest, but if this perspective was generally agreed with I wouldn't be against something being done...

Or you know, maybe a non-exclusive crafting recipe could be made from nightmare fuel, glommer's goop, and figs for Nightmare Tree Jam that anyone could use to transform a pine tree into a treeguard, or a birchnut tree into a poison birchnut tree, in either case (or at least just the former), not immediately aggressive against players.

[PunkShark]

I'm confused if the problem is with the treeguards being used as minions, or the living logs being the problem. Because i am positive Klei didn't intend the use treeguards being used as "minions" for Woodie but due to the creativity of the folks it has just indirectly happened. on top of that you cannot control them, they're mindless just waltzing around "minions" which gives them very niche uses and a long setup

But to give that sort of power to wormwood in an intended way feels a bit much imo, a reminder that these aren't your regular enemies but they're a boss enemy. Maybe a compromise could happen where he can get smaller weaker versions of treeguards on his side? 

Treeguards main reason to exist is because of living logs, Woodie can speed up the process of that and he has to sacrifice 3 slots to get it.
Everybody can get treeguards, especially minion related ones so Wormwood's ability in general falls a bit flat on that part even without the treeguard effigy to spawn them in. 

[ShadowbirdRH]

Kinda both. Since producing living logs is already Wormwood's thing, it seems wrong that another character should be better at it, and with Woodie being a cursed arborcidal maniac, it doesn't make sense for trees to be Woodie's friends. If anything, Woodie should exclusively have treeguards hostile on sight and impossible to appease by planting trees. Since anyone can appease treeguards, it's always been an option to have them around to attack anything that happens to attack them, even if they're not bound to a character as a minion, and although I didn't mention it in this topic, I did suggest considering the possibility of Wormwood being able to befriend plant creatures including them in another topic, though if that were possible the price should be extra high for treeguards.

Like I said though, I'm probably just being petty and frivolous about this. Still, I do like the idea of anyone being able to craft nightmare tree jam to produce treeguards.

[PunkShark]

7 minutes ago, ShadowbirdRH said:

Kinda both. Since producing living logs is already Wormwood's thing, it seems wrong that another character should be better at it, and with Woodie being a cursed arborcidal maniac, it doesn't make sense for trees to be Woodie's friends. If anything, Woodie should exclusively have treeguards hostile on sight and impossible to appease by planting trees. Since anyone can appease treeguards, it's always been an option to have them around to attack anything that happens to attack them, even if they're not bound to a character as a minion, and although I didn't mention it in this topic, I did suggest considering the possibility of Wormwood being able to befriend plant creatures including them in another topic, though if that were possible the price should be extra high for treeguards.

Like I said though, I'm probably just being petty and frivolous about this. Still, I do like the idea of anyone being able to craft nightmare tree jam to produce treeguards.

Treeguards aren't Woodie's friend but i can see your side of the coin in the way you interpret it. He burns the effigy which really makes the treeguards mad (because they're at war with Woodie as his perk describes it. I really like your suggestion of treeguards not being at all appeased of Woodie no matter how many saplings he puts down, they wouldn't give mercy on him, he chops a whole forest daily and it would fit perfectly with his at war with the trees downside. On top of that i think the effigy should only give you a *chance* to spawn in treeguards and not a 100% chance, you *could* waste 2 living logs to get the possibility to get treeguards or you waste a use of living logs. of course, the chance is higher than not getting them.
 

[Mysterious box]

43 minutes ago, PunkShark said:

Treeguards aren't Woodie's friend but i can see your side of the coin in the way you interpret it. He burns the effigy which really makes the treeguards mad (because they're at war with Woodie as his perk describes it. I really like your suggestion of treeguards not being at all appeased of Woodie no matter how many saplings he puts down, they wouldn't give mercy on him, he chops a whole forest daily and it would fit perfectly with his at war with the trees downside. On top of that i think the effigy should only give you a *chance* to spawn in treeguards and not a 100% chance, you *could* waste 2 living logs to get the possibility to get treeguards or you waste a use of living logs. of course, the chance is higher than not getting them.
 

Actually to build on this a funny idea could be if Woodie takes the idol crafting perk all treeguards would always be hostile to Woodie regardless of who spawned them and they'd become hostile on sight.

[Cheggf]

Woodie has always been better at spawning treeguards. He's had that ability since long before Wormwood was added. If anything Wormwood is encroaching on Woodie with his ability to craft living logs. 

[flamboyant wolf]

27 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Woodie has always been better at spawning treeguards. He's had that ability since long before Wormwood was added. If anything Wormwood is encroaching on Woodie with his ability to craft living logs. 

iirc, Woodie only got higher chance to summon tree guards in his refresh, which was ~3-4 months after Wormwood was added to dst. 

[ShadowDuelist]

I've been using treeguards for multiple purposes as Woodie since his rework (area defense of hounds or depth worms, sanity station, killing toadstool, mass living logs farm for dark sword or mushrooms) and I always considered it his most useful late game perk. This was before the moonstorm made him too annoying to play as, and I stopped playing him altogether.
 
The Lucy method was very RNG dependent and it could take MANY days to get a certain amount to do stuff. Sometimes you chop 2-3 trees and get 6 treeguards, sometimes you chopped a whole forest and got just one, or none. It was way too random.

Now it's just easier to accomplish and less grindy, which I find fair.
 

1 hour ago, skile said:

iirc, Woodie only got higher chance to summon tree guards in his refresh, which was ~3-4 months after Wormwood was added to dst. 

That is correct, the most reliable way to create living logs has always been Wormwood. This change also made Woodie a reliable living log producer, in a way that is higher risk, high reward.

[Cassielu]

8 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Actually to build on this a funny idea could be if Woodie takes the idol crafting perk all treeguards would always be hostile to Woodie regardless of who spawned them and they'd become hostile on sight.

It's a really cool idea, but I'm almost sure players will switch characters for it