Evelo Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 I am making this post purely for Klei not for anyone else. So comment as you wish I am speaking directly to the people of Klei Entertainment. Back in 2013 when Don't Starve came onto steam I played it and fell in love with the art style and the gritty difficulty of the game. I thoroughly enjoyed the game in my own spare time. I never played the DLC besides Reign of Giants, I tried Shipwrecked but found it more annoying than fun. Anyway I swap over to Oxygen Not Included because it is up my alley of games. I am delighted by it and absolutely adore the game with all my heart. I come back to Don't Starve and play some Don't Starve Together instead as that has more content with the RoG base. I really enjoyed the addition of the ocean even if it is a little lacking I enjoy it a lot. Fishing is really entertaining and the Reap What You Sow update made me fall head over heels with the game. I discovered Wormwood at this time and he became my go to character. I struggle to play other characters now because of how much I enjoy Wormwood. Everything about him from his downsides, his origin, his personality, everything. I. Love. Wormwood. Even the two recent patches I enjoy because they add something new to the game. By the time the Character Refreshes ended I was happy because I knew there would be content for everyone simultaneously now plus I remember reading you all getting tired of doing Character refreshes. So I have to ask... Why? Why are you doing these skills? I thought you were tired of doing character focused stuff? Don't get me wrong the skills themselves are fine. Some are a little over powered just judging from Wormwood's stuff but why make them skills? I love the idea of being able to create Carrats and Saladmanders. OMG Saladmanders are so cute I will litter my base with them. But why lock it behind skills and skill points? I play solely single player and reading through the forums I see the argument that "The skill trees allow for people to play the same character in different ways." Which is true sort of. To me as a someone who plays purely single player I feel like I am being punished even more than I already am with extreme health pools. The Bee Kind trait seems like it "should" bee baseline for Wormwood. So having to invest 4 skill points seems rather rough. But I guess that is the point eh? Choice. Regarding the skills themselves why was it decided to have them unlock through days survived and not through some other method? I don't like the skill tree idea but I am malleable and can adapt. Maybe the thing about it is the skills seem just slightly too small for the amount of points you get. As in: there is enough points where you need to make choice, but not so many choices that you just feel bad about not having enough points. Since I am a Wormwood through and through I will use his skill tree as an example. At the start you have to spend 1 point on left or right. This is fine, with in each other separate category you have 5 skills to take for a total of 6 points used if you fully invest in that one tree. (For me it would be the Bee Kind + farming one because I personally love both even as a solo player), I now have 9 points remaining. For Wormwood specifically the left side post CC (also side note, I love the fact Wormwood has no shadow equivalent, brilliant in my eyes.) He has 3 perks to apply and on the right he has 2 to spend. If you spend 100% of your points on the left you are left with a 15th point to spend only on the base right trait. This gives the feeling, at least to me, that I did my math or trait picking incorrectly because I have this flimsy left over trait. I committed to the left path entirely but despite all the useful skills I got I have this trait that doesn't feel like it fits. For me at least as I can only speak for myself, having only 14 trait point maximum would feel better than having 15. (granted right side needs a second post CC trait but still) Alternatively drop the trait maximum from 15 to 9 so I can only choose one of the four options. plus the 3 post CC trait). Something about that would make me the player feel better since limiting the number of available points I have would make each point feel more important in the long haul. Now comes the dreaded portion. Re-speccing and the Celestial Portal. I think for clarity sake I just want an idea on what the design of the Celestial Portal is suppose to be. To me I always saw it as "I like this world but I don't actually want to play this character for the long haul, so I will swap." However I see people use it as a tool of exploitation. Out of spiders or merms? Swap to Webber or Wurt. Want the utility of Wickerbottom but don't want to play her? Just make it all and swap. Again this is coming from a single player only experience. I am not saying people who use the Celestial Portal in this way are wrong for doing so, to me it feels exploitative. With regard for Celestial Portal and respeccing, is the Celestial Portal meant to allow players to respec? If yes, then why have skills? If you are giving the players freedom to pick any skill at any time using the portal why make them choose in the first place? Something about this seems counter intuitive. If it is suppose to be a method to allow players who accidentally pick one skill to change then put in place some system where if you select the skill, so long as you don't leave the skill page, you can refund your skill point spent. This way if you misclick you can fix your mistake but you can't abuse it to have all skills whenever you want it. All in all I don't like the skill system but I can tolerate it. I feel spending time to add more to the game that affects all characters is better than adding things to the game that affect some or one character(s). However I believe (please prove me wrong) that player engagement rises significantly when there were character refreshes than there were other updates. So from the business perspective I can understand focusing on what drives the most engagement (and therefore revenue), but I do not feel it is best for the game as a whole (might be wrong though dunno just my opinion). I hope my review of the system (and from one of the many Wormwood main's eyes) can give you developers some "Insight" on how I feel on the whole skill tree system. I absolutely love Klei as a company and the products you all produce. I hope to join your team one day but as a mere Survivor in the Wilderness outside of Klei's walls I just speak. Lastly this is by no means an attack on Klei or any individual, I sincerely hope no one reads it that way and this is all calm and patient critique and questioning for developer philosophy on their game. I am extremely passionate about Don't Starve and want to see it succeed. I know it is "cringey" to say love in a parasocial relationship that many people, myself included, have with video game companies or their games. I love World of Warcraft with all my heart but cannot bear to play that anymore because of the direction it went. I do not think that will happen with Don't Starve or Klei as a whole, but that seed of fear from Charlie's shadowy hand nestles itself in my brain. Developer insight and design philosophy I feel are really important, at least for me, to truly enjoy and play their game the way it was meant to be played. Love you Klei Entertainment, Love you Don't Starve and Oxygen Not Included. Love you Wormwood. - Evelo, a Klei Super Fan Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149203-a-twig-snaps-an-ask-for-clarification-for-the-people-at-klei/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardyn Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Evelo said: I love World of Warcraft with all my heart but cannot bear to play that anymore because of the direction it went. I am worried that this is what DST is about to face. I'm very afraid and full of anxiety about the future of DST. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149203-a-twig-snaps-an-ask-for-clarification-for-the-people-at-klei/#findComment-1647963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antynomity Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 Can relate. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149203-a-twig-snaps-an-ask-for-clarification-for-the-people-at-klei/#findComment-1647967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheggf Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Evelo said: comment as you wish Okay. Twigs are incapable of snapping in this game. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149203-a-twig-snaps-an-ask-for-clarification-for-the-people-at-klei/#findComment-1647968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milordo Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 Because it's easier to do a bluntly lazy marketing to appeal more casual players (which will not go anywhere as always as been in these 10 years, if it is from a point to gain player retention for giving them the treat after waiting hours, since people quit for the core difficulty aspect of the first year of the game) in hoping to do a quick buck instead of focusing hard on making updates with heart and soul by adding and fixing the game while following his design and not break it. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149203-a-twig-snaps-an-ask-for-clarification-for-the-people-at-klei/#findComment-1647970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evelo Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 It's Monday now so I really hope the devs read this. I just want some questions answered or clarification on design philosophy. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149203-a-twig-snaps-an-ask-for-clarification-for-the-people-at-klei/#findComment-1648666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evelo Posted July 14, 2023 Author Share Posted July 14, 2023 Happy Friday, really hoping for developer insight on the decision for skill trees. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149203-a-twig-snaps-an-ask-for-clarification-for-the-people-at-klei/#findComment-1650124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlVoid Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Evelo said: Happy Friday, really hoping for developer insight on the decision for skill trees. It was addressed in Wilson's rework I think? A lot of people are dropping the game by their records because the game doesn't have a traditional "start". No markers, no objectives, no incentives. A lot of us love that part of the game and have had our share of fun with it. Now Klei wants to expand the game to a broader audience, wether that is good or bad well vary from person to person. That is my limited knowledge on the matter Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149203-a-twig-snaps-an-ask-for-clarification-for-the-people-at-klei/#findComment-1650141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antynomity Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 2 hours ago, HowlVoid said: It was addressed in Wilson's rework I think? A lot of people are dropping the game by their records because the game doesn't have a traditional "start". No markers, no objectives, no incentives. A lot of us love that part of the game and have had our share of fun with it. Now Klei wants to expand the game to a broader audience, wether that is good or bad well vary from person to person. That is my limited knowledge on the matter The skills fail at that. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149203-a-twig-snaps-an-ask-for-clarification-for-the-people-at-klei/#findComment-1650156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrocator Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 9 hours ago, HowlVoid said: A lot of people are dropping the game by their records because the game doesn't have a traditional "start". No markers, no objectives, no incentives. A lot of us love that part of the game and have had our share of fun with it. Now Klei wants to expand the game to a broader audience, wether that is good or bad well vary from person to person. Personally I started playing this game because I watched a VoD (YouTube) of someone playing the game for some hours. I wonder if I would have picked it up if I was going in totally blind. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149203-a-twig-snaps-an-ask-for-clarification-for-the-people-at-klei/#findComment-1650204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakepeng99 Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 You should be able to speed up insight by killing bosses, or maybe a few other tasks. You should be awarded for doing stuff rather than base sitting. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149203-a-twig-snaps-an-ask-for-clarification-for-the-people-at-klei/#findComment-1650247 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milordo Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 17 hours ago, Antynomity said: The skills fail at that. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149203-a-twig-snaps-an-ask-for-clarification-for-the-people-at-klei/#findComment-1650327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evelo Posted July 19, 2023 Author Share Posted July 19, 2023 I am once again asking for Developer Design Philosophy to be made known, please. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149203-a-twig-snaps-an-ask-for-clarification-for-the-people-at-klei/#findComment-1651669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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