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What is the point of endgame drops for wolfgang mains?


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25 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

something I've found is the more I character swap, the less Wolfgang matters. 

Yeah in my long term worlds where I don’t restrict myself from swapping characters I spend the vast majority of my time as Maxwell or Wanda because they’re much more fun and incredibly potent, I don’t really use wolfgang much at all besides maybe FW but that’s mainly because I play console and his simplicity makes him the best choice for me since the fight itself is already pretty micromanagey so screw adding more with Wanda or low HP Maxwell jank 

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15 hours ago, Vinja said:

This statement right here is the icing on the cake, you genuinely have no idea how strong these characters are or how to play to their strengths. Maxwell + Beefalo + Shadow minions + tier 3 shadow gear to buff minions is the highest dps in the game. Plus beefalo negates maxwells low HP downside. You clearly do not have the experience in game to be making any of these arguments. Ignorant arguments like these are the reason the misconception that Wolfgang is OP exists.

Lol if you need tier 3 shadow equipment or to tame a beefalo which takes almost 3 hours of gameplay to come close to wolfgangs power level. That character is not strong at all.

The thing is apart from bee queen why do you even need AoE damage? Single target damage is far more important for literally 95% of combat encounters in dst. U really dont need to farm spiders that often and wolfgang can one shot them meaning he can deal with spiders before they even can group up into a horde.

Wendy is the single most overrrated character in the game. The thing is if u play wendy, you NEED to tame a beefalo as her. You NEED to waste 20 days minimum to tame an ornery beefalo just to sorta get near wolfgang levels of damage. Nightmares, any AoE boss, rooks... you know the more annoyin mobs to fight in the game, abigail either doesnt help or is more hassle than shes worth. Bramble husk 100% replaces abigail. And catapults 100% replace her for bee queen farming. So what if you take like 2 hp from a spider bite while using bramble armour? Just use spider glands to heal straight back up.

Abigail helps u kill already easy to kill mobs? What is useful about that?

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37 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Lol if you need tier 3 shadow equipment or to tame a beefalo which takes almost 3 hours of gameplay to come close to wolfgangs power level. That character is not strong at all.

That’s only if you wanna out DPS a wolf with warly buffs which also takes hours to achieve. If you’re talking just a regular mighty dark sword wolf you don’t need nearly as much. Also higher DPS = not strong at all lol what

47 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

The thing is apart from bee queen why do you even need AoE damage? Single target damage is far more important for literally 95% of combat encounters in dst. U really dont need to farm spiders that often and wolfgang can one shot them meaning he can deal with spiders before they even can group up into a horde.

Lmao if you think wolf farms spiders easier than Wendy you should try actually playing the game sometime you genuinely have zero grasp on even the basics of these characters.

 Abigail isn’t just good for AoE she puts out solid DPS, can even tank/draw aggro from you, and debuffs enemies to make them take more damage. If you think she’s only good for aoe you’re playing her wrong or just haven’t played her. I’m not saying she’s the best character to play or anything like that all I’m saying is when you play to her strengths (beef + buffed abi + warly buffs) she competes with wolf for DPS. You can just say other characters aren’t as strong as wolfgang simply because wolfgang is the only one a moron can grasp. 

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

Wendy is the single most overrrated character in the game. The thing is if u play wendy, you NEED to tame a beefalo as her. You NEED to waste 20 days minimum to tame an ornery beefalo just to sorta get near wolfgang levels of damage. Nightmares, any AoE boss, rooks... you know the more annoyin mobs to fight in the game, abigail either doesnt help or is more hassle than shes worth. Bramble husk 100% replaces abigail. And catapults 100% replace her for bee queen farming. So what if you take like 2 hp from a spider bite while using bramble armour? Just use spider glands to heal straight back up.

Abigail helps u kill already easy to kill mobs? What is useful about that?

You don’t need to do any of that unless you’re obsessed with minmaxing your damage which most people aren’t. And here you go again using the character swap argument. Wolfgang is even worse when you account for character swapping. Pretty much anything can be replaced by catapults and Maxwell/Wanda. Maxwell to farm materials for farms, Winona to build farms, Wanda to teleport across the world and farm/cheese bosses. Switching to wormwood is a waste unless you’re farming living logs.

 Also you’re literally arguing against your points from earlier. All of the sudden farming spiders doesn’t matter anymore now that I debunked your argument. All of the sudden aoe isn’t very useful anymore but also bramble husks are still good even though the only difference between them and any other armor is the aoe attack and also DPS doesn’t matter unless it’s wolfgang and who cares if Maxwell can do it better.

 You’re literally just contradicting your last post over and over. Also I’m gonna consider your lack of arguments against Maxwell a concession that he’s in Wolfgang’s league since you’ve conveniently decided not to respond to any rebuttals.

 Try actually playing the game then come argue

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40 minutes ago, Vinja said:

That’s only if you wanna out DPS a wolf with warly buffs which also takes hours to achieve. If you’re talking just a regular mighty dark sword wolf you don’t need nearly as much. Also higher DPS = not strong at all lol what

Lmao if you think wolf farms spiders easier than Wendy you should try actually playing the game sometime you genuinely have zero grasp on even the basics of these characters.

 Abigail isn’t just good for AoE she puts out solid DPS, can even tank/draw aggro from you, and debuffs enemies to make them take more damage. If you think she’s only good for aoe you’re playing her wrong or just haven’t played her. I’m not saying she’s the best character to play or anything like that all I’m saying is when you play to her strengths (beef + buffed abi + warly buffs) she competes with wolf for DPS. You can just say other characters aren’t as strong as wolfgang simply because wolfgang is the only one a moron can grasp. 

You don’t need to do any of that unless you’re obsessed with minmaxing your damage which most people aren’t. And here you go again using the character swap argument. Wolfgang is even worse when you account for character swapping. Pretty much anything can be replaced by catapults and Maxwell/Wanda. Maxwell to farm materials for farms, Winona to build farms, Wanda to teleport across the world and farm/cheese bosses. Switching to wormwood is a waste unless you’re farming living logs.

 Also you’re literally arguing against your points from earlier. All of the sudden farming spiders doesn’t matter anymore now that I debunked your argument. All of the sudden aoe isn’t very useful anymore but also bramble husks are still good even though the only difference between them and any other armor is the aoe attack and also DPS doesn’t matter unless it’s wolfgang and who cares if Maxwell can do it better.

 You’re literally just contradicting your last post over and over. Also I’m gonna consider your lack of arguments against Maxwell a concession that he’s in Wolfgang’s league since you’ve conveniently decided not to respond to any rebuttals.

 Try actually playing the game then come argue

Lol im not contradicting anything, as a solo player what reason do i have to play wendy? Abigail just isnt as universally useful as 2x damage. I agree that wolfgang isnt the most op character in the long run, i only switch to him for big hp bosses like misery toadstool but atleast i switch to him and hes op at day 1 which counts for alot. I switch to winona for catapults, i switch to wormwood for husks. Wurt is my primary character to be for long lasting worlds for her 100% seasonal immunity that i believe beats out wandas teleport network. Cause atleast wurts merms carry over, you lose all of wandas teleport network if you switch off her for any reason.

Never had i once wanted to play as or needed to switch to wendy. Because so many other characters do what she does better (or are more fun to play) and have better perks that can carry over between characters. Beyond her aesthetic she isnt even interesting to play.

Her popularity is because DST is a hard game and abigail is a noobs best friend. And the majority of DST players are noobs.

Sounds to me that you need the clutch of having follower backup to fight bosses Vinja. I remember you saying you needed catapults to fight ancient fuelweaver and you are questioning my gaming knowledge of DST?? Hahahahahahaha 

Let me guess. Bet u cant even kill dfly with 1x damage multiplier? Dawh you noobies are cute :wilsoalmostangelic:

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2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Lol if you need tier 3 shadow equipment or to tame a beefalo which takes almost 3 hours of gameplay to come close to wolfgangs power level.


Consider attackspeed is 2.5 attack per second, 2 attack if punches , shadow duelist attack once each 1.8 secs if maxwell attack and 2.8 secs if max stand still.
Maxwell summon 5 minions so he wont go insane.

From start of the game, without any equipment, wolfgang punches (40 DPS if he mighty). maxwell (45 DPS if max stand still, 94 DPS if maxwell punches)

with tier 1 gears, wolfgang with spear deal 170 DPS , maxwell with spear + magic hat (64 DPS if stand still, 191 DPS if maxwell attack.)

with tier 2 gears, wolfgang with darksword deal 340 DPS , maxwell with full tier 2 set (Dsword + tier 2 armor) (99 DPS if stand still, 248 DPS if maxwell attack)

Without anyother character help, wolf capped dps at 340 Dsword. maxwell with beefalo ornery + afw set/ 6 duelist instead of 5 (162 DPS if max stand still, 433 DPS if maxwell attack)

So wolfgang only outshine maxwell in term of dps when he at tier 2 gears/magic. Before and after that, maxwell can outdps wolfgang.

1 hour ago, Vinja said:

That’s only if you wanna out DPS a wolf with warly buffs which also takes hours to achieve. If you’re talking just a regular mighty dark sword wolf you don’t need nearly as much. Also higher DPS = not strong at all lol what

When target not wet (consider how often it is we fight boss wet.)
Wolf with warly buff jelly + chilly + Dsword 612 DPS. Maxwell with ornery war saddle beef feed spice, he eat volt goat, 6 duelist, full afw set 564 DPS.
So he still not at wolfgang full dps.

This does not include dodge, only face tank and attack, minions doesnt have to dodge so if you have to dodge boss the same amount, maxwell might do even better vs wolfgang
Edit: If we talking about other character help, maxwell above, + 16 grumble bees from bee book goes to 804 DPS and finally beat wolfgang.

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42 minutes ago, Tranoze said:


Consider attackspeed is 2.5 attack per second, 2 attack if punches , shadow duelist attack once each 1.8 secs if maxwell attack and 2.8 secs if max stand still.
Maxwell summon 5 minions so he wont go insane.

From start of the game, without any equipment, wolfgang punches (40 DPS if he mighty). maxwell (45 DPS if max stand still, 94 DPS if maxwell punches)

with tier 1 gears, wolfgang with spear deal 170 DPS , maxwell with spear + magic hat (64 DPS if stand still, 191 DPS if maxwell attack.)

with tier 2 gears, wolfgang with darksword deal 340 DPS , maxwell with full tier 2 set (Dsword + tier 2 armor) (99 DPS if stand still, 248 DPS if maxwell attack)

Without anyother character help, wolf capped dps at 340 Dsword. maxwell with beefalo ornery + afw set/ 6 duelist instead of 5 (162 DPS if max stand still, 433 DPS if maxwell attack)

So wolfgang only outshine maxwell in term of dps when he at tier 2 gears/magic. Before and after that, maxwell can outdps wolfgang.

When target not wet (consider how often it is we fight boss wet.)
Wolf with warly buff jelly + chilly + Dsword 612 DPS. Maxwell with ornery war saddle beef feed spice, he eat volt goat, 6 duelist, full afw set 564 DPS.
So he still not at wolfgang full dps.

This does not include dodge, only face tank and attack, minions doesnt have to dodge so if you have to dodge boss the same amount, maxwell might do even better vs wolfgang
Edit: If we talking about other character help, maxwell above, + 16 grumble bees from bee book goes to 804 DPS and finally beat wolfgang.

But wolfgang doesnt need to juggle summoning duelists while also trying to hit the boss at the same time. You can focus 100% on only kiting. With wolfgangs chunky 200hp plus ability to kite easier using marble armour, you need zero healing items during fights to kill most bosses as wolfgang. This saves a whole load of prep time.

Yes maxwell has higher dps in theory, it is much more clunky and difficult to pull off in practice requiring you to juggle casts between kiting and attacking, if you want to use prison spell with duelists you have sanity to worry about as well.

Wolfgang isnt op because of his damage, hes op because how easy it is to obtain and use his extra damage. Hence hes an early game character, so back on topic, its fine that wolfgang gets nerfed abit for late game damage. Cause as an early game character hes insanely strong from day 1.

Characters like wendy and maxwell require alot of extra prep to gain their max strength (taming beefalos or getting tier 2/3 shadow gear). Wolfgang starts at max strength. 

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1 hour ago, Tranoze said:


Consider attackspeed is 2.5 attack per second, 2 attack if punches , shadow duelist attack once each 1.8 secs if maxwell attack and 2.8 secs if max stand still.
Maxwell summon 5 minions so he wont go insane.

From start of the game, without any equipment, wolfgang punches (40 DPS if he mighty). maxwell (45 DPS if max stand still, 94 DPS if maxwell punches)

with tier 1 gears, wolfgang with spear deal 170 DPS , maxwell with spear + magic hat (64 DPS if stand still, 191 DPS if maxwell attack.)

with tier 2 gears, wolfgang with darksword deal 340 DPS , maxwell with full tier 2 set (Dsword + tier 2 armor) (99 DPS if stand still, 248 DPS if maxwell attack)

Without anyother character help, wolf capped dps at 340 Dsword. maxwell with beefalo ornery + afw set/ 6 duelist instead of 5 (162 DPS if max stand still, 433 DPS if maxwell attack)

So wolfgang only outshine maxwell in term of dps when he at tier 2 gears/magic. Before and after that, maxwell can outdps wolfgang.

When target not wet (consider how often it is we fight boss wet.)
Wolf with warly buff jelly + chilly + Dsword 612 DPS. Maxwell with ornery war saddle beef feed spice, he eat volt goat, 6 duelist, full afw set 564 DPS.
So he still not at wolfgang full dps.

This does not include dodge, only face tank and attack, minions doesnt have to dodge so if you have to dodge boss the same amount, maxwell might do even better vs wolfgang
Edit: If we talking about other character help, maxwell above, + 16 grumble bees from bee book goes to 804 DPS and finally beat wolfgang.

Now put that through a filter of attacking a planetary target.

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On 6/4/2023 at 4:37 AM, _zwb said:

Take Bee Queen for an example, if you play alone, you would need a magiluminescence, roads, walking cane, and pan flutes just to get a slight chance to attack her or else you get stun-locked by 8 bees.

You can fight her solo with just cobblestones and one more speed boost like a cane, magi, or being wormwood. You might even be able to fight her with just 1 but it'd be hard.

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1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

Now put that through a filter of attacking a planetary target.

Wolfgang:
167 DPS Dsword vs planar
216 DPS Brightshade set vs planar
Wolfgang + warly food:
243 DPS Dsword vs planar.
274 DPS Brightshade set vs planar (I have no idea if warly food increase planar damage, too lazy to check so i just assume it doesnt)

Maxwell
212 DPS Full tier 2 set/Dsword vs planar.
265 DPS Beef + AFW set, 6 duelist.
Maxwell + 16 bees:
extra 178 DPS from bees.

Because maxwell minions deal small damage but stack more, he suffer less from planar defense system.

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

But wolfgang doesnt need to juggle summoning duelists while also trying to hit the boss at the same time.

Maxwell summon duelist before boss fight start. With boss below 10000 hp one summon is enough.
Cost prep time? wolf also need to pump mighty up before fight start.

For boss above 10000 hp, there often be stun pharse/block pharse/revive pharse that max can sneak in some summon.

Yeah it harder for max players to summon duelist and make their up time 100%, but that the problem about player's skill, not about character's strength.

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41 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

You can fight her solo with just cobblestones and one more speed boost like a cane, magi, or being wormwood. You might even be able to fight her with just 1 but it'd be hard.

You are "able" to kill misery toadstool solo as Wes fists only, but that wouldn't be easy nor enjoyable. The problem is the fight is dragged too long and most of the time you're just running around a giant bee, not actually fighting.

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13 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Maxwell summon duelist before boss fight start. With boss below 10000 hp one summon is enough.
Cost prep time? wolf also need to pump mighty up before fight start.

For boss above 10000 hp, there often be stun pharse/block pharse/revive pharse that max can sneak in some summon.

Yeah it harder for max players to summon duelist and make their up time 100%, but that the problem about player's skill, not about character's strength.

Takes literally 3secs to pump mightiness with a gembell. Otherwise carrying a rock dumbell keeps mightiness in check until u get a gembell/cane. Plus you arnt going to use shadow duelists for every single mob encounter. Wolfgang will be mighty 100% of the time between chopping/mining/fighting/carrying rock dumbell, therefore using his 2x damage for everything. 

If one character (wolfgang) takes less skill to be super powerful and another character (maxwell) takes more skill to be the same level of power. Then the first character is stronger..... i believe Walter is one of the best characters in the game for veterans as his downside is completely negated by player skill, leaving only his awesome upsides but for all different skill levels of players wolfgang is universally the strongest.

1 minute ago, _zwb said:

You are "able" to kill misery toadstool solo as Wes fists only, but that wouldn't be easy nor enjoyable.

Cobblestones have become so cheap to craft that making a battle arena for her has never been so easy. You only need to pan flute grumble bees for first 2 phases then kite after that. What else are you saving the pan flutes for anyway?

Wolfgang eats her up after you obtain mag and thulecite club from ruins.

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3 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

If one character (wolfgang) takes less skill to be super powerful and another character (maxwell) takes more skill to be the same level of power. Then the first character is stronger..... i believe Walter is one of the best characters in the game for veterans as his downside is completely negated by player skill, leaving only his awesome upsides but for all different skill levels of players wolfgang is universally the strongest.

 

Mind you, this is Wolfgang vs Maxwell in a damage only comparrison where Maxwell reaches Wolfgang's damage.

Maxwell also has the best harvesting in the game, crowd control, nm fuel farming methods only available to him, pocket dimension, and can read all of wicker's books for unlimited full moons, absolute rain control, instant grow crops, and more.

Like literally Wolfgang's only perks are 2x damage, manual chop / mine bonus that includes tool degradation to prevent efficiency, and rowing a bit faster.

Wolfgang is already neutered to be a basic character that you yourself only find useful late game, take away his damage and he isn't even useful then.  Wolfgang is B tier at best right now.

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7 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Plus you arnt going to use shadow duelists for every single mob encounter.

I do. Am that rich in nmf. My friend keep giving me stacks and stacks of nmf for no reason.

Vs spider? duelist.
Vs hound? duelist.
Butterflies farm? duelist.

Only mob in the game i dont use duelist is shadow creatures. that it.

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1 minute ago, Shosuko said:

Wolfgang is already neutered to be a basic character that you yourself only find useful late game, take away his damage and he isn't even useful then.  Wolfgang is B tier at best right now.

He only finds him useful late game but also thinks he falls off late game and is OP on day 1 and also doesn’t contradict himself

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2 minutes ago, Vinja said:

He only finds him useful late game but also thinks he falls off late game and is OP on day 1 and also doesn’t contradict himself

Haha i also have my own preferences, i can kill bosses easy peasy with 1x damage multipler and no follower support with Walter. So the increased early game movement speed with big woby without needing to tediously tame a beefalo and more inventory slots are more important to me. Im saying for noobs and veteran alike wolfgang is very very very strong from day 1.

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1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

Haha i also have my own preferences, i can kill bosses easy peasy with 1x damage multipler and no follower support with Walter. So the increased early game movement speed with big woby without needing to tediously tame a beefalo and more inventory slots are more important to me. Im saying for noobs and veteran alike wolfgang is very very very strong from day 1.

Idk Walter sounds kinda OP

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7 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

How? Does he not still do more damage than normal characters with planar weapons?

His rework was literally "he does the same damage but loses move speed."

Also planar is specifically a nerf to him as it targets higher concentrated damage for larger reductions.  Dealing marginally higher damage is worthless in this game, you have to attack many many times to get any noticeable gains from it.  2x damage sounds big, but considering you can easily get 4 players attacking something you're still behind doing things solo as Wolfgang vs with a party of 4 Wilsons.  The time it takes to swap to Wolfgang is greater then the benefit of having his damage, which is why its better to sit on Maxwell who has all kinds of crazy OP things including Wolfgang tier damage and better counters to planar defense via bees.

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33 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

better counters to planar defense via bees.

I wouldnt say counter as most planar mob rn has aoe damage, i just say theorically maximum damage output.
Bees are terrible vs planar mobs (include shadow rift mobs)

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20 hours ago, _zwb said:

You are "able" to kill misery toadstool solo as Wes fists only, but that wouldn't be easy nor enjoyable. The problem is the fight is dragged too long and most of the time you're just running around a giant bee, not actually fighting.

How does stacking movespeed change that?

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1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

How does stacking movespeed change that?

Higher movement speed merely makes it easier to dodge, still, you're just running around most of the time, which is boring:/

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