situations where the dreadstone gear shines

[Malfario]

Mostly curious about peoples opinion about dreadstone armor.

On a personal view i fouund the set like an improved version of the eye mask, not only you can cover both armor slots but if you doge and play smart is very much infinite armor with good protection.

The regen its more than enough to cover incidental dmg but letting it down to much can become quite annoying to repair, in this cases i just tend to farm a bit of fuel with the armor waiting it for it to repair but all this means that basically the armor is not very usable on most of boss fights, where sometimes is required heavy tanking or a single mistake can make you take a lot of dmg.

I havent tested it much on bosses but i imagine that against dfly, klaus, toadstool or Ancient Guardian it can be a very good option on its own.

Overall we got a new cool every day armor and finally a way to keep us insane during the early-mid game. i still think however that the dreadstone suit its not good enough but i am hopping for dreadstone to be more interesting on the future.

But please share where and when do you use dreadstone gear or if you use it at all.

[Mr Giggio]

Right now I dont even touch it. I just kill Daywalker and thats It, more stuff to put in chests. If It does recovery while on a manequin the game changes for me cuz u can switch the weak one for another refreshed, but probably its not the case. Right now Im playing Maxwell on beef and  one single night armor/tulecite suit lasts for a whole year once I equipe Just to buff duelists damage and probably the dreastone can be more interesting exactly due the regen but at the end of the day It doesnt even matter that much cuz after the first summer its all bout bone armor, so I fail to see any use for dreastone stuff

[Ryusuta]

I tried out the Dreadstone Armor (haven't bothered killing Daywalker twice in order to get both), but honestly, I wasn't very impressed with it.

Don't get me wrong; it's a passable bit of armor, but the repair time really does kill it. It just takes way, WAY too long to repair substantive damage, and you're sitting there wearing it the whole time, making it take up that slot. It puts it in this dead zone where you can't really use it against anything substantive because it will take literal in-game days to fix (and has the potential to break), and it also doesn't really work as a day-to-day "workhorse" armor, since the passive regen doesn't keep up with the expediency of just giving the Mask and Shield some Rot or Monster Meat and fixing it up instantly.

Basically, if I'm fighting raid bosses, I'll probably grab powerful and expendable Night Suits or Marble Suits. And for anything else, the Mask and Shield are more than sufficient.

That being said, it should be noted, that you CAN repair it for free by sleeping in a tent with it, since its sanity penalty doesn't take effect and you actually gain sanity while sleeping. Not especially impressive, but it's at least something.

[Malfario]

i did mentioned on the beta forum that the armor will sufer from the same problem that the brumble husk sufered before its buff:

An interesting concept, but the counterpart made it unsuable.

I dont want to start a conversation about how the armor could be improved because the nightmare werepig is probably going to have more content and maybe the dreadstone armor will have more effects that can not be implemented now because it will be usefull against mobs or mechanics that are not implemented.

BUT, if the armor did ended up being just what we currently have i would say that the regen should be boosted, i remember mention either on discord or the forums that the regen of the armor could be boosted near insanty auras, let it be for example that if you are near a night light on the ruins, or on top of fuel weaber, the armor needs only 60 seconds to go from 1%-100%, this will make it a super potent on situations when you tend to be low sanity, which yes we dont have that many but we will probably get them on the future.

Also the night light would finally have an use as we could craft one to make a station to regen the armor on the go.

This is just a random idea again, not looking forward to talk about the armor until we get a sense of what dreadstone will be used for.

[BB Marioni]

dreadstone armor+ dreadstone helm/ eye helm+ shield of terror = tank who never crafts any armor ever? XD

[Ryusuta]

12 minutes ago, BB Marioni said:

dreadstone armor+ dreadstone helm/ eye helm+ shield of terror = tank who never crafts any armor ever? XD

Sadly, that doesn't really work all that well in practice. I mean, if you're fighting raid bosses, then you can't really facetank them with valuable stuff because they'll just shatter all of your equipment before the halfway point. And for non raid bosses, you can just fight with the Mask and Shield to the same effect, making the armor redundant. I mean, maybe if you happen to have it on hand and don't want to make some expendable armor to split the damage with, but even then you're stuck with the cripplingly slow repair rate and the body slot being used up even when not in a fight.

[BB Marioni]

5 minutes ago, Ryusuta said:

Sadly, that doesn't really work all that well in practice. I mean, if you're fighting raid bosses, then you can't really facetank them with valuable stuff because they'll just shatter all of your equipment before the halfway point. And for non raid bosses, you can just fight with the Mask and Shield to the same effect, making the armor redundant. I mean, maybe if you happen to have it on hand and don't want to make some expendable armor to split the damage with, but even then you're stuck with the cripplingly slow repair rate and the body slot being used up even when not in a fight.

you will still actively dodge raid bosses. I just thought maybe having all three will increase the durability and let you take a couple of hits without destroying any of the three, then regen the armor after the fight

 

[lakhnish]

I like it for bosses that I'm primarily kiting rather than tanking to save on Thulecite gear.

I especially like it for Dragonfly, since I end up wasting a crown by the end of the fight if I take too many hits, but with the armor, I don't have to worry about wasting a crown and can instead use the crowns elsewhere.

[Juanasdf]

Same, for me It's useful for bosses that I'm confident I can kite, everyday dmg and nightmare fuel farming. The suit is very useful for moonstorms too, but even a log suit is good enough for it.

The repair time is not a problem during autumn or winter, but I can see it being a problem during spring (due to eyebrella using your head slot).

If anything, i'd buff the suit repair speed a bit, the helm is okay. That way the suit's cost would make more sense too I guess.

I like it, it really cuts down on thulecite crowns.

[Maxil20]

I think the armor has really nice potential. Only reason I don’t really use it ATM is the apparel of the armor just isn’t for me (it just looks a bit silly without skins atm) but I think it can be very powerful in the right hands.

Something else important to note is it’s much easier to deck out a server in dreadstone gear then with eye masks/shields of terror. You can dupe the dreadstone suit to farm up mats to make a bunch of the dreadstone armor pieces. One of my friends were able to deck out a server of ~8-10 people with helmets using ~4-5 green gems just by duping the suits and crafting helms with the construction amulet.

[Pig Princess]

I tried both dreadstone suit and helmet and wasn't impressed, and here is why.

There are fights where I want armor for intensive tanking, namely Bee Queen and Ancient Fuelweaver; Celestial Champion in phase 3 is kitable with 0 damage, but I usually choose to be a bit less careful and spend less time, which results in 0.5-1 thulecite suit per CC fight (1x damage), i.e. can be called medium-scale tanking. Can I use dreadstone armor for this? Not really, because for decent amount of tanking I'm looking for more protection % and more armor durability (in order to fill less inventory slots with armor pieces and not be forced to pick extra equipment from the ground mid-fight). Dreadstone armor looses in both categories to marble suits and thulecite suits/crowns. As for special properties, durability regen of dreadstone armor is not enough during fight, it takes way too much sanity and time wearing it to regen after fight, regen doesn't even work in areas of enlightement. Compare this to downsides and special properties of other equipment:

- marble suit has one of the best damage reduction (95%) as advantage and speed reduction as disadvantage, however, latter is irrelevant in tanking (area where armor shines), especially if player uses hotkeys to switch equipment (switching to magi for retreat works perfectly fine even in BQ fight, but bears some risk of receiving unprotected hit or requires to use other armor as safety net);

- thulecite suit doesn't have downside during usage of it, has much more durability and gives sanity regen as a bonus (which even has non-combat use in the form of keeping sanity level at no cost during sailing) at the cost of resources being generally less abundant and requirement to craft it in special - dangerous and remote - place;

- night armor is at least just as good at keeping player insane and gives more protection % (good for areas with enlightement);

- thulecite crown has force field that grants stunlock resistance and grants more protection % on average due to occasional force field (same downsides as thulecite suite).

- bee keeper hat has huge durability pool and doesn't have other downsides than being limited to fights with bees (which doesn't matter in fights with bees);

- double bone armor is best suited for controlled tanking, rewarding player with best damage reduction %, but demainding extra micromanagment, control of situation and depletes nightmare fuel supply quickier than other options (requires to fight Ancient Fuelweaver several times).

As one can see, those items have 2 things in common: their downsides don't work directly against their upsides and thus don't hinder potential of those armor pieces, and their special traits are actually noticeble and often create that very niche they shine; they also are good alternatives to each other and at the same time don't make irrelevant any armor type of this group.

And here is question: why would I pick dreadstone armor (suit or helmet, or both - it doesn't matter at this point) - if it's essentially worse for purpose of tanking than alternatives, and it's special ability doesn't help in those circumstances? Why would I spend time and tons of sanity to regen durability instead of using that very sanity to boost my dps with enlightened crown, or instead of using that time to get resources for other types of armor in faster and/or more enjoyable way (I like to clear ruins and use cannons/giants for marble trees)? In case I decide to rely on dreadstone armor, I may even need to prolong fight to unnecessary length just to not loose armor, i.e. idle around as much time as I spend dealing damage (last time I have spent 2x more time to fight CC several times in a row with this set than I usually spend with thulecite gear, solely because I had to idle a lot after or during (!) each fight, and on top of that I had to manuver CC closer to my boat in order to avoid it's healing in unloaded state during my forced breaks, which prolonger fight further).

As for day to day combat, armor is also loosing a lot to alternatives. Day to day combat doesn't drain much durability in the first place, so single thulecite suit or crown lasts really long time; eyemask can be repaired instantly with garbage like rot and eternal fruitcake or usually abundant and unwanted things like monster meat, even red/blue caps and butterfly wings as occasional healing work just fine; shield of terror in addition to that frees 1 other inventory slot because it's both weapon and armor, so one can use other useful equipment like rain coat, magi, keep backpack equipped, use clothing (in combination with enlightened crown and dwarf moons nearby), etc. And then there are good old football helmets (battle helmets) and log suits (bramble husk) that are just so much easier to produce that they easily win in contest of available armor durability for cheap with durability-regenerating armor (!). As for protection %, day to day combat doesn't drain much of it, and I find 80% being plenty. And we don't talk about beefalos here because they easily win that category.

For hybrid case - ruins clearing - it's also not good because it drains sanity and needs to occupy inventory slot for regen, meaning one would spend much more resources on fighting nightmares or keeping sanity up, plus would experince soft lock on clearing speed, past which durability regen would not be enough to continue without idling. Former means spending more time, fuel for light source, food, weapon durability and corresponding resources, and latter means all of this plus potentially be interrupted from activity in worst possible moments in annoying places and necessity for extra back-and-forth running. Even extra nightmare fuel gained doen't justify that: from my experience one needs around as much fuel as thulecite (because the most abundant crafts consume it in close to 1:1 ratio), and all fuel past that is just manifestation of poor planning.

Dreadstone gear in general is in very odd place among other equipment: it's sanity drain makes player want to wear it for as short time as possible, but then one can't really repair it (affects day to day combat); it's lack of sanity drain on hit (in comparison to night armor - armor with similar downsides) makes one want to take advantage of it in tanking, even getting hands on multiple sets for switching, but that "free" maintainance is an illusion and one may as well just choose more convenient/cheap armor with other type of maintainance; it's sanity drain makes one want to use it in enlightement areas, but armor looses it's main special trait in those circumstances and just becomes worse version or thulecite suit/night armor.

I can see a way to save it though: if armor could be repaired with some instant sanity points of wearer, it would essentially be same trade of sanity for durability, but much faster; % of durability gained could be affected by sanity level of wearer in general, so the closer one is to 0 sanity, the more value one could get from fixed amount of sanity points. It would not affect people who want to use it to farm nightmare fuel, because one gains some amount of sanity in the process anyway, and fighting in a state of induced insanity (bone helm, nightmare amulet) is usually a bad idea anyway because player is often overwhelmed by shadows. It would get rid of pointless waiting and promote planning of restoration activities, as well as make it able to compete with other armor. It would promote obtaining multiple sets of it as well while would not make other armor irrelevant.

[Evelo]

I like it. Would be cool if it could be refueled with Nightmare Fuel like the Bone Armor. Better than Thulecite for every day shenanigans cause it regens, albeit slowly. Not having to rely on killing AFW (F that pos boss I hate it) for great armor is quite nice.

[Juanasdf]

24 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

-snip-

But dreadstone armor is good to save on space for thulecite crowns on your way back from ruins. You have to think of it as an infinite helm that will last you longer due to its regen. Eye mask doesn't protect you as much as dreadstone does and it only takes one space NO food required!.

Okay but seriously, you just listed a lot of pros for other armors, but the fact that they are good doesn't mean that dreadstone armor is bad, it just means that they serve different purposes. Yes, night armor is good for enlightment, beekeeper hats for bees, thulecite suits are good out of combat and crowns shield you... but dreadstone shines by being a good armor to wear outside of boss battles.

In the end it's going to depend on wether you like it or not, to me the armor seems balanced:

-The fact that it lowers your sanity while regenerating is a good thing, by the point you have that armor you could be using dark swords constantly. Insanity leads to nightmare fuel. Besides, It's not like shadows swarm you 24/7. If you're going to fight a boss, switch to thulecite crowns, and a couple of mushrooms should be enough to get you above the insanity threshold and last until the fight is over.

-To me comparing it to the eye mask is like comparing the waterfowl can with the regular watering can. I see dreadstone equipment as an upgrade to the mask. And I could make the same point as you make in the end about availability: I've never liked it, because the amount of protection it gives was the same as a football helm, and it's easier for me to grab pig skin and grass (which I always carry) than it is to babysit a helmet with 315 durability.

-That "pointless waiting" you mention, you don't need to sit and do nothing while waiting for the armor to repair...

In my experience, and I hope I don't sound like a broken record, dreadstone armor allows me to bring back from the caves a lot of useful materials like gems, gears, cables and staffs + 8 or so crowns which I can save for hard to kite bosses, and still have a good armor for day to day combat to cut down on healing (because the difference between 80% and 90% feels noticeable enough for me to want to get it)

And lastly, as someone else has said, another pro is that duping dreadstone is (arguably) more beneficial than duping thulecite, because you can give just one piece of armor to everyone on the server, and that armor can last them infinitely longer than a crown or a suit.

56 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

Why would I spend time and tons of sanity to regen durability instead of using that very sanity to boost my dps with enlightened crown,

Idk you tell me, Why would you use a mid-game armor vs THE end game item?... You can't seriously compare them, same with the bone armor which is why I didn't mention it before...

[Pig Princess]

2 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

but dreadstone shines by being a good armor to wear outside of boss battles

Thulecite suit does it better. You mention insanity as a good thing, but being distracted by nightmares too much just slows you down and eats through those living logs you are trying to use with fuel to make dark swords. From my experience constantly wearing something that drains 10/20 sanity per minute just leaves no room for doing stuff between going below and above sanity treshold.

As for mushrooms, why would I need to go out of my way to pick them and cook, when I can just skip that part entirely?

2 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

amount of protection it gives was the same as a football helm

To me it doesn't matter, because football helmet-worth durability is enough for me to do even Dragonfly. I just have to bring like 3-4 pieces of monster meat and no other armor needs to be used. For Klaus I don't even need to feed it, it's just there to reduce damage from those 1-2 hits I may take in the fight, but won't necessarily take in general. In that case dreadstone helmet is straight downgrade, and when I obtain enlightened crown every other head slot equipment except moggles feels like downgrade, including all head slot armor.

But returning to eyemask and football helmet, technically you get more durability per monster meat in case eyemask (loose on meat though) and mask + food for it occupies less inventory slots than football helmet + materials. Also when football helmet is low, there is need to keep extra one in one more slot, which doesn't happen with eyemask. And I acknowledge that helmet has advantage over mask in cases when one doesn't hold food and/or doesn't want to deal with eventual spoilage and risk of breaking the thing (by the way, slurper pelts and bunny puffs can be used to refuel both mask and shield, and they don't perish, so it's another use case for things wich usually pile up).

2 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

babysit a helmet with 315 durability

Interestingly enough, I feel like I need to babysit dreadstone gear, but not eyemask/shield. I guess it depends on playstyle and kiting skill/ping.

 

2 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

That "pointless waiting" you mention, you don't need to sit and do nothing while waiting for the armor to repair

Sure, but in what scenario I may want to keep dreadstone suit or helmet instead of other gear ranging from crown to insulated pack while I do other stuff? What about scenarios when I want to use dreadstone armor as, you know, armor, to actually block some hits? In latter case if I want it to regenerate durability I have to wear it when I don't take hits, and when I don't take hits, I would rather wear something else.

Plus I described particular situation that occurs in longterm worlds: farming CC for shards. That is one fight where I would like to use armor that reduces sanity and where relatively slow regen would be enough but still needed (especially for like 4 consequtive fights), but it just doesn't work. Because, firstly, there are only benefits of starting one fight right after another (farm materials beforehand) which naturally implies one doesn't do side things inbetween and, secondly, after summoning mysterious energy whole surface becomes enlightened area for the rest of the day so durability regen is impossible period. As a result durability regen is disappointedly useless, and thematically it feels weird that shadow-imbued armor is that bad against lunar-related entity (which is not the case with other shadow gear).

What usually happens is that I fight something, receive some hits (not much, but I would still prefer to repair armor to 100%), and then have to choose to either return to non-fighting activities as usual, or wear that dreadstone thing, absolutely tank my sanity, probably waste resources on fighting shadows, loose light of the crown and in general run with body slot occupied with this instead of backpack or at least thulecite suit (on boat). Then I think "where can I use that armor?"; "In Bee Queen fight - Nope, too little durability."; "In Fuelweaver fight? - I would rather use thulecite suit for protection and convert extra sanity into gestalts from crown, which would result in less armor durability used in the end"; "In Klaus fight? Do I even need armor for that one?"; "For ruins clearing? And what would I do with those 2 extra stacks of nightmare fuel? Why would I use extra living logs and time on nothing (killing shadown I don't have to kill in the first place)?". I just can't find a single situation when dreadstone armor would be at least neutral option, if not straight detrimental. I legit once was out of armor when I was about to fight Dragonfly with a friend (well, aside from dreadstone suit in my chest). I tried to use dreadstone armor, and the next time we fought it I crafted log suit instead because of reasons and didn't regret it. For things like farming tusks I would rather use beefalo or eyemask/shield/log suit, or even go naked and outheal eventually that inconsequential damage from random hound bites.

2 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

dreadstone armor allows me to bring back from the caves a lot of useful materials like gems, gears, cables and staffs + 8 or so crowns which I can save for hard to kite bosses

But you need pick/axe for the fight, so does that mean you go to ruins, then go to Nightmare Werepig, then return to the ruins? Isn't it easier and faster to just craft single thulecite suit right in place and proceed as usual (or crown, I guess)? Vast majority of statues can be mined without fighting clockworks at all, and there are variety of things player can to to clear 2 bishops at repaired station: make at least one of the bishops panic with torch, freeze one of them with ice staff from labyrinth, bait both with hutch and take then one by one already in thulecite armor, bait one of them while not aggroing the other, craft single football helmet/log suit beforehand or use some from labyrinth, run into them with magi and just craft suit/crown fast (put it on fast crafting), repair one of the less guarded stations and craft there (if it's longterm world, station in military biome without obelisks nearby might be preferable), character-specific solutions.

 

2 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

And lastly, as someone else has said, another pro is that duping dreadstone is (arguably) more beneficial than duping thulecite

Such a waste to dupe it, I would rather craft more thulecite gear at this point. Players that need that much armor that initial ruins rush is not enough for them even with duping are just going to die beause of shadows screwing them in other fights or just appearing much more frequently if one is not that good at kiting shadows. I watched it with my own eyes on public server, those people just fell in that trap, no less, no more. Eventually they were out of resources to recover max hp and around early winter server died (everyone left, and I let it regen as the last one remaining).

 

2 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

THE end game item

What is endgame? Depending on my priorities I can have enlightened crown before Fuelweaver loot and even before Dragonfly loot, my first Toadstool fight (misery version) I also like to to with crown to save resources. It's possible to have it in the first year, but to me resonable speed for longterm world is first half of second year. So my first ruins clear can be done with crown actually (not rush though, obviously), and first ruins clear doesn't seem like endgame to me. Jokes aside, until I have proper base, I can't call it lategame, and proper base definitely happens after I get crown (or even multiple). Same for bone armor and other things: it's just about priorities. So question is "why would I want dreadstone gear at any point of my playthrough?", and so far the only answer is "To have good boss fight and gift loot to somebody else who won't be killed by that armor/put armot into storage to never be taken out [if solo world]", which is pretty weak, if you ask me.

P.S. I highlighted a lot of things in my other post because I see a lot of people who read "diagonally", so in order to distort it as less as possible with that kind of attitude towards posts I decided to highlight key points. Maybe it was too much highlighting, in that case - sorry, it was around 5 am for me.

[Cloakingsumo198]

What if dreadstone also could regen through other means like fighting or just have it's regen be constant.

[Juanasdf]

Spoiler

3 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

Thulecite suit does it better

I disagree but because body armor tends to be a nuissance to my playstyle, since I usually wear mags or backpacks. Which yeah, also applies to dreadstone

3 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

being distracted by nightmares too much just slows you down and eats through those living logs you are trying to use with fuel to make dark swords

Depends on which characters you are playing as or with, but that's a valid point, I usually go for woodie or wanda and living logs ain't really a problem.

3 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

when I obtain enlightened crown every other head slot equipment except moggles feels like downgrade, including all head slot armor.

This is not a problem with dreadstone armor then, this is because you're comparing an end-game item with other items in the game, of course everything is going to feel like a downgrade, the final boss' drop should feel rewarding and satisfying to use.

3 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

Also when football helmet is low

You throw it away like the piece of trash it is

3 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

bunny puffs can be used to refuel both mask and shield

Friendly reminder that unless you turn YOTB they are non-renewable

3 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

Sure, but in what scenario I may want to keep dreadstone suit or helmet instead of other gear ranging from crown to insulated pack while I do other stuff?

You can switch your crown with the dreadstone helmet for a while, it doesn't need to be equipped 24/7 specially since you can just turn on permanent full moons and regen sanity during night time and not worry about darkness. But again, comparing an end-game item with a mid-game item doesn't sit right for me, so here are some alternatives: You can wear your helmet (and your suit) while you organize things in your base, cook, grab twigs, berries, grass, craft things, wait for thermals to cool / heat, run around the world, take a pee break next to glommer, chop wood, mine stone, etc. Doing any and all of those actions with your dreadstone armor equipped will slowly repair your armor, and if, as you said, you don't take many hits in some fights, then you will be spending less time with the crown equipped.

I will admit that the suit is not as versatile as the helm though, last time I played I saved the dreadstone suit for moonstorms and ran around with just the helmet. And i'll also admit that the helmet will be less useful during spring, due to the rain, but crowns are worse at that point because they don't give rain protection either.

3 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

thematically it feels weird that shadow-imbued armor is that bad against lunar-related entity (which is not the case with other shadow gear

Have you seen the greater gestalts dealing 180 dmg against you? A terrorbeak only deals 50, Lunar magic has been time and time again proven to be more powerful than shadow magic. Crown demonstrates it, full moons too since they basically make charlie's attacks useless. Even the moon caller staff is more durable and has a stronger effect (one star is enough to freeze you). And not to mention that glass axes are more efficient and cutters more durable vs shadows. (Though probably not lore accurate, even the insanely cheap and OP character swapping is done through lunar magic)

3 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

-snip about uses-

Well I agree, I wouldn't use it against Fuelweaver (did you know it reduces 91% dmg vs shadows?) or Bee queen, but I'd definitely use them on the other cases. The thing is, sanity late-game is quite the opposite to sanity early game, you want to stay at full sanity for the DPS boost, and because the crown gives you infinite light, and then you also either have a krampus sack or an insulated backpack, so the suit becomes even worse. But early game you want to stay insane, you need NF for shadow magic, ruins, dark swords, LGAs, Magiluminescences, etc.

But I believe you're being too harsh on it, you won't be taking that much damage while fighting klaus, dragonfly and mc tusks, so the pieces won't take much damage, and they won't need much sanity to repair. And even if you were not perfect at kiting, as I said, you can just complement the armor with crowns, the nice thing about it is that it saves you on thulecite, which, as I see it, for non-longterm worlds, is a bit harder to get. I for one really dislike AFW's fight, and I prefer to spend my thulecite wisely, and if it means I can get a good alternative I'll take it.

3 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

But you need pick/axe for the fight, so does that mean you go to ruins, then go to Nightmare Werepig, then return to the ruins?

No...? I go to the ruins, loot everything, craft things (including a pick/axe) go to werepig, kill him and get out of the caves... why would I need to return to the ruins again?

3 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

Such a waste to dupe it, I would rather craft more thulecite gear at this point... -snipped the rest of the argument about new players-

Depends on who you're playing with, what I meant is that if a player is good enough to kite shadows or stay sane (by equipping the armor only when necessary (THIS INCLUDES EQUIPPING IT TO REPAIR IT AND SWITCHING TO SOMETHING ELSE LATER LIKE A TAM)) then the armor will last longer than a crown.

3 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

What is endgame? Depending on my priorities I can have enlightened crown before Fuelweaver loot and even before Dragonfly loot, my first Toadstool fight (misery version) I also like to to with crown to save resources. It's possible to have it in the first year, but to me resonable speed for longterm world is first half of second year. So my first ruins clear can be done with crown actually (not rush though, obviously), and first ruins clear doesn't seem like endgame to me. Jokes aside, until I have proper base, I can't call it lategame, and proper base definitely happens after I get crown (or even multiple). Same for bone armor and other things: it's just about priorities. So question is "why would I want dreadstone gear at any point of my playthrough?", and so far the only answer is "To have good boss fight and gift loot to somebody else who won't be killed by that armor/put armot into storage to never be taken out [if solo world]", which is pretty weak, if you ask me.

You can acquire the dreadstone armor by day 2 when the boss spawns, but it's not early-armor because it's gated behind a hard area and a relatively hard boss. For CC, you need to do so many things that I won't even list, it's considered widely as an end-game item, with a whole quest behind it and a 3 phase boss to beat.

And I do get what you mean by priorities, If im playing on my own world and chilling I probably won't visit ruins until the end of the second summer. But again, the CC questline takes you to almost everywhere on the constant, if that is not an end game item I don't know what is. It involves fighting, waiting for full moons, farming (or oasis fishing), going to the ruins and archives, puzzle solving, sailing, completing pearl tasks, fighting one of the most difficult bosses, moving statue pieces across the world and helping WAGSTAFF DONTSTARVE

But to answer "why would i want it at any point". I just think they are neat! Nah just kidding... kind of, it's hard to explain, I just like it. I find it very useful for chilling on pubs. Just now I just logged off from a casual session as maxwell, cleared a bit of the ruins, got a mag, a few crowns and things, killed daywalker, and used the armor. The rest of the crowns you can use in bossfights like dragonfly or bee queen as you said, and then the leftover crowns you saved while wearing the helm can be shared with others, if you're afraid they'll die from shadows.

3 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

Maybe it was too much highlighting, in that case - sorry, it was around 5 am for me.

I find overly highlighted texts too hard to read because I get lost :S

2nd edit cause i forgor: To finish this long post Dreadstone will most probably have more uses and ways of acquiring it, just because it seems useless to you now doesn't mean it can't change in the future, even with no changes to the armor itself. Just the way in which we use it may be enough to make it a good item (only klei knows but i like to think in the future maybe it will be like marble reducing knockback or earmuffs vs Queen Womant)

EDIT: Moved it all to a spoiler to avoid spam

[Gashzer]

Dreadstone armour excels for some characters over others.

Willow can completely replace thulecite armour for boss fights as Bernie can fight off shadows as willow fights the boss.

Maxwells like the reverse of Willow: can choose to spawn 6 duelists (making him insane) to fight the boss while maxwell fights shadows and spams prison spell on boss. Dreadstone will quickly repair.

Wormwood can control sanity by plantin seeds during fights to maintain his sanity above the threshold. Dreadstone makes farming nightmares easier for infinite dark swords for wormwood.

Walter... kinda, if you take enough hits to go insane using regular armour, might as well switch to dreadstone to save on thulecite gear. Good armour for walter to farm nightmares for thulecite rounds... its kinda hard to keep walter insane otherwise.

Wigfrid can use sanity song and health song to become nigh indestructable when using both dreadstone helm and armour. Becoming a true tanking god.

Wolfgang has such high dps that you can just rapidly kill nightmares then go back to fighting the boss while using dreadstone.

Dreadstone armour is 100% better than thulecite armour. Now you can use that spare thulecite for thulecite clubs instead.

 

 

 

 

[DajeKotlyar]

21 hours ago, Ryusuta said:

(haven't bothered killing Daywalker twice in order to get both)

Just use green amulet and get both pieces after one kill

[Ryusuta]

50 minutes ago, DajeKotlyar said:

Just use green amulet and get both pieces after one kill

...I'm an idiot.

[Evelo]

8 hours ago, DajeKotlyar said:

Just use green amulet and get both pieces after one kill

I am extremely disappointed that I did not consider thing.

[abrocator]

On 4/3/2023 at 1:13 PM, Ryusuta said:

That being said, it should be noted, that you CAN repair it for free by sleeping in a tent with it, since its sanity penalty doesn't take effect and you actually gain sanity while sleeping. Not especially impressive, but it's at least something.

For the first time after her -25 HP nerf, Wickerbottom has another downside.

[Mr Giggio]

I do want to believe this armor is good and reading yall coments I will re-do a chance but its so short the jump from tulecite suits/magi to bone armor that.... I dont know man. But yeah maybe the helmet can fit in somewhere despite being ugly af

[Juanasdf]

4 minutes ago, Mr Giggio said:

But yeah maybe the helmet can fit in somewhere despite being ugly af

I agree, its ominous... And fitting in the sense that survivors dont seem to know how to work with that new material at all, but it's so ugly at the same time!

[Mr Giggio]

2 minutes ago, Juanasdf said:

it's so ugly

soo ugly. I was avoiding the eye mask for the same reason but now a hecking charcoal nugget lmao

[Pig Princess]

Spoiler

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

body armor tends to be a nuissance to my playstyle

But even if we exclude body armor, comparison of dreadstone helm and thulecite crown still results not in favor of the former. Dreadstone helm still drains crazy amounts of sanity, results in extra fights one doesn't need to have, and thulecite crown still lasts quite a while before it breaks. I can see some benefit if one uses head slot - wearing exclusively either dreadstone helm or tam, and tam should be equipped every single second dreadstone helm is not equipped, but that means one has to use lanterns, pass on moggles and miner hats, as well as other potentially useful clothing like beefalo hat, eyebrella, pirate hat (I like it in combination with malbatross beak to extend it's duration even more), and on top of that one needs to actually be lucky and obtain tam, which is not even available until winter. Also I should have mentioned that head armor is a nuisance to my playstyle and I use body armor almost exclusively, so part of differences in our views comes from that.

May I ask why you don't like body armor so much? I'm just curious because I don't like head armor due to it competing with head light, which I like a lot.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

woodie or wanda

I can see Woodie benefitting from dreadstone gear by blocking some hits right after transformation ends (plus wereforms reduce sanity and thus repair speed is already better right from the start), but Wanda is moot point because as far as I know she doesn't loose sanity from wearing it or looses very little sanity. I didn't mention specific characters like Maxwell because I wanted to discuss armor in general, it's effects and place in playthrough for any character.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

comparing an end-game item with other items in the game

I feel like DS/T is that specific case when gear can't be strictly put in line of better and worse equipment, and I like it. Even stuff that is typically crafted in first days usually keeps at least some niche use, which means one may consider crafting it even when world progressed a lot. For example, I would still use eyemask or log suit for things like tanking krampi during Klaus fight if I'm lazy to kite them, and it feels like a waste to use thulecite gear on it. Compared to dreadstone gear those things don't drain sanity and mask can be repaired nearly instantly. Same for Dragonfly fight.

It's true that some items are more complex and/or require more skill to use, but again, if I prioritise getting them, I can use it well before endgame. Thus for me they are not endgame items, but rather items that are a bit more difficult/slow to ackquire and tricky to use. So question is for whether dreadstone gear enter that list of priorities or not. I want it to be interesting to me, but so far it fails at it.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

You throw it away like the piece of trash it is

Valid point, but I don't like to drop such things to litter world, so I try to produce as little trash as possible. Plus they block hits just as fine as 100% armor (now in DS too, what a relief).

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

Friendly reminder that unless you turn YOTB they are non-renewable

??? Bunny puffs are renewable through killing bunnymen (or taking advantage of mob wars) since it has 25% drop chance. Depending on where player uses them they can passively produce puffs while killing themselves on tentacles, bosses, treeguards, debth worms at cave bases, clockworks, etc.

Also if one wants to multiply bunnymen via bunnymen wars only, the ratio in which puffs and carrots are produced leaves extra puffs after crafting more houses.

That being said, I wish there was a way to bring bynnymen back from extinction outside of event. I hate when people hammer all rabbit hutches and never bother to save puffs. It would be funny if we could deconstruct dangling debth dwellers into regular spiders and white spider switcherdoodle

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

you can just turn on permanent full moons

If you refer to lunar grimoire usage, it's available only for 2 characters, and if you refer to leaving moonstorms active, I have to mention that this is very annoying because of gestalts at night (I may want to use other equipment in head slot, but am still kind of forced to keep CC crown, unfortunately) and because of moonstorm areas that randomly change locations. Moonstorms force me to carry desert goggles when I otherwise would not do it (i.e. basically all the time, even in summer, because I despise oasis as summer base), damage friendly mobs (glommer, friendly fruit fly) and mobs I keep as pets (slurpers and goats, for example, they are useful for keeping alive for WX to obtain biodata passively), they disable usage of head slot for anything other than desert goggles/astroggles, which is especially annoying in boss fights (especially when my sanity is high), I also dislike mutated pengulls and prefer regular ones, same for hounds. And most importanly, moonstorms make me unable to fight shadow pieces (and Ancient Fuelweaver as a result), so even in old worlds I like to leave them off.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

wear your helmet (and your suit) while you organize things in your base

I like to fight, so often I wear CC crown to restore my sanity to 100%, but this one could pass if not for crazy sanity drain of armor that makes me use lantern in this and next night.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

cook

In body slot I would rather use insulated pack, and I very rarely use head armor past 1st year; eyemask is better for those niche cases because I can repair it instantly and it doesn't drain sanity.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

grab twigs, berries, grass

I grab twigs from twiggy trees in the world and from opening tumbleweeds. I find twigs not being used much even for building multiple cooking stations with crock pots and drying rack fields. I don't use berries, and for twigs I would rather use grass gekko farm (turn it on and off by putting chester/teleporting saladmander there) and use lazy forager in body slot for picking.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

craft things

Valid point. But I'm not megabaser, so I rarely mass-craft.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

wait for thermals to cool / heat

Furnaces/ice boxes across the map with extra thermals for swapping reduce this time to 0. Thermal/refrigerator circuit and sunfish/ice bream do so as well, plus under big trees I don't have to worry about overheating at all (and I really like to cover as much area of my base with them as possible, I once even made luxurous base in waterlogged biome itself).

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

run around the world

I prefer to have backpack and CC crown/moggles for that. If I wasn't using beefalo for running around the world, I would rather use magi in body slot.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

take a pee break next to glommer

If I need to take pee break, I either pause the server (if solo world), or disconnect. I don't dare to afk in this game, especially with other players around. This is more scary than doing shadow pieces with untamed beefalo or fighting crab king with bad ping to me.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

chop wood

Bee Queen crown or CC crown takes head slot when I do it - with Bearger, - and body slot is occupied with backpack to pick all resulting loot right away. I usually spend some sanity on going near Bearger to manuver him and after that - to fight surviving treeguards with the help of gestalts.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

mine stone

In the caves I would rather to use head light + sanity restoration anyway, and later gunpowder opens stone fruits instantly. During mining of marble trees with Bearger/Forest stalker I prefer to use Bee Queen crown/CC crown, mining marble with cannons is nearly instant.

As you can see, I don't have much opportunities to chill at base and try to limit time I spend on activities that I could call semi-idling.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

don't take many hits in some fights, then you will be spending less time with the crown equipped

But if I don't take many hits, thulecite gear would last even longer, and I have even less insentive to use dreadstone gear. It also opens window to use eyemask/shield instead, as well as bone armor (even single piece would be enough for very long time, and it's refuelable).

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

but crowns are worse at that point because they don't give rain protection either

But eyebrella... Also without umbrella 20% protection won't make a difference, but that means I won't use proper weapon or tool. If I absolutely need to leave damage protection to head slot, then I would rather use other armor in head slot or use shield, and for rain protection opt for rain coat (or eyebrella if shield is used). Plus eyemask, football helmet, bee keeper hat, Bee Queen crown, bone helm all give 20% protection, so among head armor only thulecite crown looses in that department.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

Have you seen the greater gestalts dealing 180 dmg against you?

Right, gestalts do 180 damage per hit. But damage doesn't increase even if I use shadow gear; gestalts only start to target player in that case, but player can easily receive hit in cross-fire without any gear equipped for the same 180 damage.

Plus 50 vs 180 damage only shows that lunar side is more on offensive department (even CC crown is weapon, even Crab King drops weapon blueprint), while shadows exceed at defensive stuff (teleport on hit, preventing further damage in a chain of attacks, Fuelweaver and Nightmare Werepig have armor as loot, even thurible is defensive tool and can be used in offensive in only indirect way). Ancient Fuelweaver himself exceels in defence and is formidable enemy precisely because of his high defensive skills, and second place goes to his crowd control/debuff abilities against players (bone cage, mind control stun); Celestial Champion exceels at offensive, peaking at 3rd phase with all those lazers.

As for shadow vs lunar gear in corresponding areas:

- night armor keeps player insane (away from detrimental effects of lunacy), is perfect for blocking hits with it's 95% protection, especially against side that exceels at damage dealing;

- dark swords, night armor, night light prevent gestalts spawning/floating around them;

- dark swords reduce sanity as a bonus, and passive sanity drain coupled with one from night armor  (with 0 damage taken) is actually enough to keep lunacy low during first 2 phases of CC fight, as well as during Wagstaff's minigame;

- bone helm is perfect for disabling gestalts from high lunacy, it shines in CC fight specifically because of it's crazy lunacy aura;

- Maxwell with his shadow magic exceels against CC and Crab King, but barely has anything to offer in AFW and Shadow Pieces fights;

- lunar-related stuff generally helps to stay away from shadows, even enlightement areas themselves make shadows unable to spawn there;

- glass cutters and glass axes are more durable against shadows, which allows do deal even more total damage to shadown with single item.

If dreadstone gear replenished it's durability in lunacy areas, it would fit perfectly because it would be best suited for fighting in lunacy areas for extended periods of time and not running out of supplies, as well as staying away from shadows. But alas.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

moon caller staff is more durable and has a stronger effect

It has nightmare fuel in it as well, so I wouldn't be to sure... Also CSC were nerfed in their effect not for lore reasons, but for convenience's sake: in DS you overheat pretty brutally on them, and it seems like Klei just forgot to do the same with polar lights. Plus in other departments star callers are stronger: they produce light with more duration (2.5 days vs 2) and they actually allow to grow crops in darkness, unlike moon caller staves.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

glass axes are more efficient

In terms of working force - yes, in terms of durability - no (they loose to pick/axe, for example). Again, it's just about exceeling at offensive and destruction rather than defence and fights of exhaustion.

As for character swapping it's fusion of technologies because purple gem bears shadow magic and is related to shadows. Plus swapping was added way before RoT started, and may be considered relict of past concepts, something that was made without current lore in mind. Just check full moon transformations - things that change in DS and that came to DST from DS or during early stages of developement: flowers turn into evil flowers (that can be refined into nightmare fuel), pig heads and merm heads start to drop nightmare fuel, moon caller staff contains nightmare fuel along with iridiscent gem (despite obtaining it with moon power)... Even in Hamlet Ancient Herald appears during Aporkalypse (permanent full moon event), has insanity aura, spawns shadows and gives shadow-related gear. So incompatibility of moon and shadow magic is slippery topic, but their antagonism is less so. There is also less inconsistencies in either side techs exceeling against other side, which is understandable considering that they specialise on eliminating other side, just like in wars in real life.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

did you know it reduces 91% dmg vs shadows?

Does this 1 point of damage per attack make a difference? You literally would gain more across the fight with force field from thulecite crown activating randomly few times more than average or loose more on random crawling horror/terrorbeak spawning while you wear nightmare amulet/bone helm (to clear unseen hands) and biting you even after regaining sanity.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

early game you want to stay insane, you need NF for shadow magic, ruins, dark swords, LGAs, Magiluminescences, etc

I agree here, but even without dreadstone gear passive sanity drain from darkness and monsters is more than enough to gain nightmare fuel for early game usage, including for clearing ruins and crafting stuff with it. So with extra sanity drain one just keeps obtaining nightmare fuel that sits in the chest, i.e. keeps to waste time and resources. Plus time in early game is especially valuable, for example, 1 more day spent in the ruins fighting shadows is the time one could spend to kill Dragonfly instead, kill Klaus earlier, pick other extra resources like kill debth worms, pick some reeds in the swamp, get extra lightbulbs, prepare moonstone, explore more map including ocean part, get all silk needed for Bee Queen, farm mac tusk extra time, etc.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

so the pieces won't take much damage, and they won't need much sanity to repair

But then I would wear them for safety net only and loose sanity for no reason, compared to thulecite gear, eyemask or log suit/football helmet. If I unequip them, I would risk to get unprotected hits, which is the same as not having that armor at all. Plus in early game I'm either forced to go out of my way and get extra sanity food, or I have to fight shadows during bossfight (or fight them more frequently in that fight). It's just insanity trap, and it reminds me about old farms and how they were starvation trap, especially for new players.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

if you were not perfect at kiting, as I said, you can just complement the armor with crowns

If I'm not perfect at kiting, I would take even more damage because of extra enemies during fight and extra fights with shadows. If I have to use other armor, I might as well just use purely that armor instead. Alternatively, I can use magi to help me with kiting or even equip life giving amulet along with armor to passively regain hp at this point.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

saves you on thulecite, which, as I see it, for non-longterm worlds, is a bit harder to get

I wonder why you face difficulties though. It's true that sometimes worlds are messed up and generate like 10 statues in whole ruins, but it's very rare. Even if somebody already cleared ruins or they are unusually small, there are still myriads of thulecite walls (I like to hammer them with lazy forager equipped, finally I'm trolling monkeys and not vice versa), there is thulecite in cave holes, people usually leave a lot of thulecite in labyrinth chests and worst case scenario you can kill Dragonfly and Twins of Terror for green gems, as well as raid atrium for more cave holes and chests with loot. Plus there are archives that contain a lot of thulecite and fragments, even though it's 1-time thing.

If you don't mind cheesing, killing AFW with single houndius shootius is very doable even in non-longterm world and it's a way to reset ruins without additional effort.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

I go to the ruins, loot everything, craft things (including a pick/axe) go to werepig

Oh, I got it. At first I though you use dreadstone gear to clear ruins, but that makes more sence. Still, lack of thulecite is something I'm yet to experience (maybe), probably the fact that I craft thulecite armor with construction amulets helps a lot.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

CC questline takes you to almost everywhere on the constant, if that is not an end game item I don't know what is

It's true that it's more complex quest than any other, and in comparison to other bosses CC takes the most time, however, even after killing CC there is a lot of stuff to do that still impacts gameplay a lot. If one prioritices CC, crown can be obtained quite early, which makes it just hard to obtain thing rather than gated behind endgame thing.

Quest is also not that lengthy as it seems. It includes ruins rush, moonstone event, a bit of sailing, catching some bees, and doing Wagstaff's minigame. Maybe it's just me who did that a lot, but if one wants to sail anyway, it's not much extra one needs to do. Ruins rush is not time-consuming, it's thing for like 1/3 of autumn. That leaves some running around map, and beefalo easily covers that part (otherwise cane and magi are quite good alternative for pure exploration purposes). Besides, setting base in good location also requires a lot of exploration, same for building base facilities like salt boxes and big trees, getting kelp, stone fruits, banana bushes, monkeytails and anenemies for farms.

12 hours ago, Juanasdf said:

body armor tends to be a nuissance to my playstyle

I hope so, but dreadstone getting other crafts doesn't affect positively already existing crafts. If there is an opportunity to make existing gear more interesting, I prefer to have such changes sooner rather than later. Plus if I have ideas upon improvement, I might as well voice them out.