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Do you think it's a good idea that Maxwell's downside would be related to using lunar stuff?


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The quotes of some characters in the game make it clear that lunar and shadow magic are opposites of each other. The shadow war in the lunar grotto proves this too. So, hence the question - is it a good idea for lunar stuff to CREATIVELY weaken Maxwell's shadow powers? I emphasize - creatively,  because straight nerf is a bad idea.

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I thought about it for a while and I have some ideas:

1. The worst idea: lunar equipment would simply weaken them, for example a glass axe -4 dmg, glass cutter -8 dmg and cc crown -12 dmg, and workers would be slower - I don't like this idea.

2. Lunar stuff would reduce work/fight radius by for example 25% for an axe, 50% for a glass cutter and 75% for a CC crown - this would actually be an advantage in some fights - Klaus for example.

3. Lunar stuff would cause inability to use Codex Umbra and his shadows would to go into panic mode - they would just refuse to work and fight as long as Maxwell had the lunar stuff equipped. 

Feel free to suggest other ideas.

But yeah, these potential changes shouldn't be done just for Maxwell - I'm especially talking about Wendy, Willow and Wanda (and I'm a Wanda main). Wendy literally says "When I wear it, i-it's harder to see Abigail...".

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7 hours ago, Fomalhaut said:

3. Lunar stuff would cause inability to use Codex Umbra and his shadows would to go into panic mode - they would just refuse to work and fight as long as Maxwell had the lunar stuff equipped. 

I really like this idea, although that strikes me as an effect most fitting for just the enlightened crown. Glass Cutters and Axes should just give a penalty to duelist damage and servant efficiency or something.

 

7 hours ago, Fomalhaut said:

But yeah, these potential changes shouldn't be done just for Maxwell - I'm especially talking about Wendy, Willow and Wanda (and I'm a Wanda main). Wendy literally says "When I wear it, i-it's harder to see Abigail...".

Disagree on this however. Basing item effects just on character quotes alone is weak reasoning since we don't know the connection between Lunar magic and undeath like Abigail. Wendy could just literally be having a hard time seeing Abigail because of the whispering and mental effects, but with Maxwell we know for a fact that Lunar and Shadow magic don't play nice because of their various interactions via items and mobs.

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Would make sense if he was a shadow creature. His strength from shadow stuff comes from knowledge, not from shadow affinity. 

Maybe he could get some creative downside actually related to him. Like manual labor affecting him negatively so he has to depend on shadows. Something what could make him alone worse workers than others' but not instantly slower like permament 75% like wes. Like getting tired of working or fighting for extended periods so it could make farming fuel more troubling by chance.

Could even be losing sanity because how he thinks it's unfitting for him to dirty hands what would lead to earlier shadows and fuel. He could start with no fuel and 0% book to it.

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14 hours ago, Fomalhaut said:

1. The worst idea: lunar equipment would simply weaken them, for example a glass axe -4 dmg, glass cutter -8 dmg and cc crown -12 dmg, and workers would be slower - I don't like this idea.

I mentioned this as a joke, but it was not entirely meaningless. It would make fighting Toadstool more difficult.

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2 hours ago, Wonz said:

Would make sense if he was a shadow creature. His strength from shadow stuff comes from knowledge, not from shadow affinity. 

This is questionable since holding shadow items strengthen his duelists. They also strengthen duelists simply whether or not Maxwell has them equipped at the moment, so I guess you could argue Maxwell like becomes more knowledgeable the more shadow equipment he wears and the stronger his spells but I think that's a pretty major leap in logic.

Maxwell seems to most likely derive some amount of power directly from Shadow items, not knowledge, so the same could apply to Lunar items.

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The idea of a lunar downside is a really fun concept, but I can't say I like your proposed ideas at all, I think they would hinder Maxwell's gameplay in a uninteresting way. Sorry. I just don't think there's anything interesting about having to de-equip a lunar axe to have your servants able to keep on working, or being unable to wear the Celestial Crown and unable to use servants/duelists.

I don't know if you remember or played Maxwell at this point of the game a few updates back, but the Enlightened Crown used to not take into account max sanity penalties, and so that meant as long as he had one shadow out, the crown could never activate. While it might be cool thematically/conceptually in lore, it really hindered his late-game and forced you to either choose hat, or the character while other characters got to have both themselves and the hat. As much as I adore lore and such, I think fun gameplay should generally take presence over lore.

Now, I hope that doesn't completely kill your idea of a lunar downside! I still think something really fun could be done while still making Maxwell an interesting character. Unfortunately being this close to release, it's very unlikely something like it would happen, but we can always dream. :)

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10 minutes ago, Hornete said:

While it might be cool thematically/conceptually in lore, it really hindered his late-game and forced you to either choose hat, or the character while other characters got to have both themselves and the hat. As much as I adore lore and such, I think fun gameplay should generally take presence over lore.

This isn't that big of an issue. You can still benefit from the crown's damage and just swap to a different hat to then use your duelists, or vice versa. Same principle applies to any Lunar items, you can just swap them out when it is most beneficial. Does it make the process more complicated? Yeah, but you aren't choosing between two things, you can quite easily benefit from both with some quick inventory management.

I do agree that perhaps something more creative should be done if it were implemented, but it's difficult to come up with a "fun" way to make an item worse.

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Until this beta, Enlightenment treated a sanity meter with a penalty applied to it as a smaller sanity meter, so Maxwell with a few shadows out would get the effects of having 80/200 sanity on the mainland, but on the lunar island 80/200 via sanity penalties would be effectively the same as 80/80 (complete with 40 sanity being treated as half rather than 20%) and he'd still get attacked by gestalts once he hit that reduced cap. Having to spend your whole visit either wearing sanity-lowering equipment or dodging gestalts is inconvenient, but it does sound similar to the sort of thing you're looking for. The fact that it was patched out suggests that it was unintended, but midgame equipment can cancel it out, so it might not be so bad to add it back in on purpose.

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I think a lunar-themed downside should be shifted away from just making lunar equipment unusable to him, and should be more about just lunar stuff not liking him. I think making gestalts/other lunar stuff aggro on him more would be good. It’s not super exciting, but I think it’ll be a fun little almost Easter egg type thing, and I could see it making lunar island trip plans more interesting, as the players involved will have to account for the danger involved with bringing maxwell (albeit the danger isn’t much more than the occasional nap from a gestalt)

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