Most people think that using magic is not real fight

[Lil Jay]

Maxwell should pick up the hambat to defeat every boss.

Remove the duelist and give maxwell the shadow hambat.

[Loonytoony]

how does a hambat relate to the title "Most people think that using magic is not real fight"?

[Lil Jay]

35 minutes ago, Loonytoony said:

how does a hambat relate to the title "Most people think that using magic is not real fight"?

In response to the current majority view that Shadow Magic should not exist, ham as a weapon have 58 dmg seems more reasonable.

[Empa505]

Just dont play maxwell if the playstyle doesnt suit you. Maxwells whole kit is based on his magic, so i dont see a reason in removing the stuff that makes him diffrent from the others.

[Loonytoony]

3 minutes ago, Jorsef said:

In response to the current majority view that Shadow Magic should not exist, ham as a weapon have 58 dmg seems more reasonable.

when did people say that? I just saw a lot of people asking to nerf or buff never outright to remove it.

[Lil Jay]

23 minutes ago, Loonytoony said:

when did people say that? I just saw a lot of people asking to nerf or buff never outright to remove it.

1hp duelist, 1s prison, this is the direction they want to nerf.

If it will end up like this, then it shouldn't exist.

27 minutes ago, Empa505 said:

Just dont play maxwell if the playstyle doesnt suit you. Maxwells whole kit is based on his magic, so i dont see a reason in removing the stuff that makes him diffrent from the others.

You don't know what I'm talking about. I'm talking about some people. Just saying what they want to say

Honestly, remove the shadow magic, add some shadow items for maxwell will be more appropriate in their point of view. 

They think maxwell is now more like a spamming clown.

Klei did it wrong at the beginning.

[Loonytoony]

20 minutes ago, Jorsef said:

1hp duelist, 1s prison, this is the direction they want to nerf.

If it will end up like this, then it shouldn't exist.

the duelist nerfs made sense before due to the fact that it was available at the beginning and was insanely cheap to summon and replace. Now that the duelist have gone through a few more changes it and made it so that they are still powerful its just that it isn't available in the beginning. Most people are now satisfied maybe a few people want some tweaks here and there but overall I don't see a lot of people asking for duelists to be nerfed again.

Shadow prison on the other hand a lot of people were in fact a bit upset at the changes but before that I didn't see a lot of people asking to nerf it maybe a few but not a lot.

 

20 minutes ago, Jorsef said:

You don't know what I'm talking about. I'm talking about some people. Just saying what they want to say

I don't understand what you mean by this. what people? what do they want to say? 

 

 

20 minutes ago, Jorsef said:

Honestly, remove the shadow magic, add some shadow items for maxwell will be more appropriate in their point of view. 

who's point of view? and replacing the shadow magic with items instead would probably make Maxwell another Winona 

 

 

20 minutes ago, Jorsef said:

They think maxwell is now more like a spamming clown.

Klei did it wrong at the beginning.

It was before but now with the changes in my opinion at least lessened the entire spam and made it so that maxwell players do have to pay attention now(at least in some cases, not all tho)

[Lil Jay]

1 minute ago, Loonytoony said:

the duelist nerfs made sense before due to the fact that it was available at the beginning and was insanely cheap to summon and replace. Now that the duelist have gone through a few more changes it. Most people are now satisfied maybe a few people want some tweaks here and there but overall I don't see a lot of people asking for duelists to be nerfed again.
Shadow prison on the other hand a lot of people were in fact a bit upset at the changes but before that I didn't see a lot of people asking to nerf it maybe a few but not a lot.

 

This community is full of people who ask for nerf, you are not seeing it? Almost every update has such people.

 It's already 4 times nerf, and these people are even asking for more.

Increases duelist cost, decreases prison duration, and makes duelists more easily dead, 6 fuels they also need to nerf.

The final direction of all things is what I said.

If no one like me stands up and points out that they are wrong, they will continue and klei will continue to listen to them.

[Loonytoony]

20 minutes ago, Jorsef said:

If no one like me stands up and points out that they are wrong, they will continue and klei will continue to listen to them.

But wrong in what sense? you say they are wrong but never say why they are wrong

At the time it was reasonable to ask for a few nerfs due to the fact it's unbalanced to have super powerful stuff at the beginning. If your thinking about bringing up characters like wanda and wolfgang. Wanda needs to rush the ruins if she wants more clocks and needs to make a shadow manipulator to make the alarming clock. As for wolfgang he also needs to find stuff which he isn't given immediately to make the gym actually useable and dumbbells are not the best unless you got the gembell which needs thulecite. 

[Guille6785]

this entire thread is a strawman

[Lil Jay]

1 minute ago, Loonytoony said:

But wrong in what sense? you say they are wrong but never say why they are wrong

At the time it was reasonable to ask for a few nerfs due to the fact it's unbalanced to have super powerful stuff at the beginning. If your thinking about bringing up characters like wanda and wolfgang. Wanda needs to rush the ruins if she wants more clocks and needs to make a shadow manipulator to make the alarming clock. As for wolfgang he also needs to find stuff which he isn't given immediately to make the gym actually useable and dumbbells are not the best unless you got the gembell which needs thulecite. 

You simply do not know the correct way to play wanda and wolfgang, these two characters are the strongest in the completion of the boss battle, as a good game player, you say these are not a problem, Wolfgang does not need a gym, and the ruins are easy for good wanda players.

The previous version of maxwell's duelist basically can not be used, and now these people also want the duelist is such.

People are wrong in that they feel maxwell should be nerfed, summoning servants which is originally maxwell way of fighting, They are now more pointing out the unreasonableness of this approach.

After I played I still think maxwell is not able to compare with wolfgang and wanda, If spamming is your main way of fighting and you spend all your time sending spam.

[Loonytoony]

7 minutes ago, Jorsef said:

You simply do not know the correct way to play wanda and wolfgang, these two characters are the strongest in the completion of the boss battle, as a good game player, you say these are not a problem, Wolfgang does not need a gym, and the ruins are easy for good wanda players.

Thats not what im saying. Im saying that at least those characters need to actually go places and work to be at their max potential, unlike pre-nerf shadow duelist maxwell where he gets something so powerful for free.

[Lil Jay]

11 minutes ago, Loonytoony said:

Thats not what im saying. Im saying that at least those characters need to actually go places and work to be at their max potential, unlike pre-nerf shadow duelist maxwell where he gets something so powerful for free.

wolfgang can unlock his full ability at the beginning, and wanda only takes a little time to get the most OP ability in this game, why would anyone think maxwell needs to be nerfed by sending spam, they just don't like the way maxwell fights, and now maxwell needs to finish the final boss to unlock his full ability. Maxwell OP now?

Other characters spend a little time to unlock their ability you all think is valuable, why maxwell still need to endlessly nerf.

maxwell has shadow magic at the beginning is reasonable, he came to the world of DST and did not lose his memory.

Hate to admit it, but it's true that maxwell's main battle now is to send spam.

[Gi-Go]

Too salty even for my taste. This is the second sarcastic post you've made. 

[ALCRD]

Sounds like Nord propaganda aimed at all magic users and especially Elves.

[LeafyFly]

2 hours ago, Jorsef said:

wolfgang can unlock his full ability at the beginning, and wanda only takes a little time to get the most OP ability in this game

In fact, they need Warly's spicy Volt Goat Chaud-Froid, and Wicker or Maxwell to read a rain book.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

59 minutes ago, Jorsef said:

wolfgang can unlock his full ability at the beginning, and wanda only takes a little time to get the most OP ability in this game, why would anyone think maxwell needs to be nerfed by sending spam, they just don't like the way maxwell fights, and now maxwell needs to finish the final boss to unlock his full ability. Maxwell OP now?

wanda needs to work way more to unlock her abilities than maxwell rushing the ruins... plus she doesnt have extra damage, gathering perks, sanity reg and crowd controll perks right after spawning in the world...wanda also has harder downsides than just having 75hp

also nobody asked for the nerfs you are mentioning, you are overexagerating

[Gashzer]

27 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Too salty even for my taste. This is the second sarcastic post you've made. 

Gi-Go you have taught your apprentice, Jorsef, very well in the ways of saltiness!

But its time for him to become the true master of salty posts! 

[Lil Jay]

14 hours ago, LeafyFly said:

In fact, they need Warly's spicy Volt Goat Chaud-Froid, and Wicker or Maxwell to read a rain book.

Are you unable to distinguish between the full ability and the highest damage?

 

14 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

Too salty even for my taste. This is the second sarcastic post you've made. 

Honestly I think I'm right about Shadow magic causing people to hate maxwell.

In the past maxwell also had shadow magic, only it was garbage, and now people are starting to become panicked.

I did not participate in the previous character update discussion, but in terms of my experience on this forum during this time, I know what has happened in the past.

People discuss more about nerf, really constructive comments are not found.

Comparing the earliest rework version of the beta test with the final rework version, people's experience doesn't seem to be much different. 

Nothing has changed in the way the game is played, it's just that people are asking for a bit of time to reach all the abilities, and this forum is full of people who think it's acceptable to do some mini-games to unlock abilities. What a naive idea.

[MadMatt]

2 minutes ago, Jorsef said:

Nothing has changed in the way the game is played, it's just that people are asking for a bit of time to reach all the abilities, and this forum is full of people who think it's acceptable to do some mini-games to unlock abilities. What a naive idea.

Um... that's been a thing for quite a few characters for quite a while? Are you saying Klei are naive for making Pipspook or Wolfgang's gym?? 

[Lil Jay]

1 minute ago, MadMatt said:

Um... that's been a thing for quite a few characters for quite a while? Are you saying Klei are naive for making Pipspook or Wolfgang's gym?? 

So you can't accept no mini-games?

[MadMatt]

3 minutes ago, Jorsef said:

So you can't accept no mini-games?

I can, however I think there should be obstacles to acquiring abilities, but your speech implies that mini-games are UN-acceptable. I don't mean to be rude, but is english not your first language? I may be misinterpreting what you mean if so.

[Lil Jay]

1 minute ago, MadMatt said:

I can, however I think there should be obstacles to acquiring abilities, but your speech implies that mini-games are UN-acceptable. I don't mean to be rude, but is english not your first language? I may be misinterpreting what you mean if so.

It only takes a little time to play a small game and a character becomes OP is acceptable. But from the story, most people have all his abilities at the beginning. If someone doesn't have a mini game, he shouldn't be powerful.

 

[MadMatt]

1 minute ago, Jorsef said:

It only takes a little time to play a small game and a character becomes OP is acceptable. But from the story, most people have all his abilities at the beginning. If someone doesn't have a mini game, he shouldn't be powerful.

I don't think anyone is objectively OP, who is the most powerful depends on what you value most in the game. But regardless, no most characters don't start with all their abilities. To give my best personal perspective, Woodie, as an example: He starts with Lucy the axe and that's it. If you want to get idols you'll need to acquire monster meat and the necessary natural resources. If you can't manage even that then the only way to acquire his wereforms is through full moons, limited times of the day only on certain days. 

Maxwell starting with all his spells and resources with the exception of the Top Hat isn't really a balance issue, but more so a drive issue. Sure if Woodie also started with one of every idol that'd make him better, perhaps significantly so since they allow you to snowball resources. However, you don't because being forced to make them in order to engage with your main perks before night 11 puts you out of your comfort zone early. Maxwell does not need to do anything special before the first 11 days and still benefits from using his abilities often. This is boring in my opinion, and why adding some obstacle or minigame even would improve at the very least Maxwell's early game fun factor. 

Though perhaps i'm just a Maxwell hater. I will admit, I've always found Maxwell boring for reasons I've addressed before and although the rework adds some novelty, my reasons for disliking Maxwell as a playable character have been largely unchanged :P 

[Lil Jay]

1 minute ago, MadMatt said:

I don't think anyone is objectively OP, who is the most powerful depends on what you value most in the game. But regardless, no most characters don't start with all their abilities. To give my best personal perspective, Woodie, as an example: He starts with Lucy the axe and that's it. If you want to get idols you'll need to acquire monster meat and the necessary natural resources. If you can't manage even that then the only way to acquire his wereforms is through full moons, limited times of the day only on certain days. 

Maxwell starting with all his spells and resources with the exception of the Top Hat isn't really a balance issue, but more so a drive issue. Sure if Woodie also started with one of every idol that'd make him better, perhaps significantly so since they allow you to snowball resources. However, you don't because being forced to make them in order to engage with your main perks before night 11 puts you out of your comfort zone early. Maxwell does not need to do anything special before the first 11 days and still benefits from using his abilities often. This is boring in my opinion, and why adding some obstacle or minigame even would improve at the very least Maxwell's early game fun factor. 

Though perhaps i'm just a Maxwell hater. I will admit, I've always found Maxwell boring for reasons I've addressed before and although the rework adds some novelty, my reasons for disliking Maxwell as a playable character have been largely unchanged :P 

If you have tested many characters, you know who really should be nerfed. woodie needs a buff in my opinion.