Full Magma Pump

[Zarquan]

I was reading up on thermal conductivity when I saw the following line that has fundamentally changed how I approach magma.

Quote

Heat Transfer will not occur if:

• the temperature difference is less than 1 °C
• the calculated thermal flow is less than 0.1 DTU
• either of the masses is less than 1g

This, combined with the mystery about pump range, I have created a monster.

This is a full magma tricked in to running on water in never sucks up.  There are 2 main components here.  Up above there is a waterfall setup that is broken by the tile under the switch that tricks the pump in to running.  Second, there are 3 gases in the pumpchamber.  These gases have nowhere to go, so the magma can't push them out of the way.  Each of these gases is approximately 100 mg, as this is the smallest amount I could get with a valve.  

This has run essentially without a hitch with no need for any space materials or oil or steel (if you have tungsten).

To build this, you can build this whole thing and then introduce the magma later. What I did was I used an igneous rock tile in the tile where the magma is in range of the pump and then built this whole thing. Waterfall first, then gases by deconstructing pipes, then I poured in the magma. When the igneous rock tile melts, it becomes magma and doesn't let any of the gas escape.

[JRup]

I'm loving this next step in the evolution of the magma pumper that you started with a magma blade and the waterfall. Late game builds will need a little extra automation as waterfalls will lose mass at load times (it does so for me, but read this with a grain of salt).

Just in case anyone's wondering about using the new gas meters for this operation, I have to provide a word of caution: The meter's scale is on kg and only goes down to a minimum of 1g. This means it will not work for this build because it can't go any lower.

Spoiler

 

Using a gas valve + shutoff combination will do the trick, but I guess anyone's that's already wrangled small packages for stuff like this already knows it (so yay, I've sinned as captain obvious...) and it might give a helpful nudge for those who don't; the only trick here is to toggle the switch on time for just one package...

 

Spoiler

 

[Zarquan]

It appears that while the lava doesn't transfer heat with the gases, the hot pipes carrying the magma do.  This means that the system pictured will overheat over time.  I don't have many tools to fix this in my colony, but I'm planning on running a pipe to cool down the area when I finally get plastic for my steam turbine.

[JRup]

Yes, even insulated pipes made with ceramic will heat up with magma. This may also prove to be an issue depending on the distance traversed for processing. Enclosing the affected pipes in insulated tile is a fair stopgap measure but there's no way to avoid heat transfer into the waterfall from the single pipe that's in contact with them.

This is one of those times that one must yearn for abyssalite based insulation (the bubblegum colored stuff)...

[Zarquan]

6 hours ago, JRup said:

Yes, even insulated pipes made with ceramic will heat up with magma. This may also prove to be an issue depending on the distance traversed for processing. Enclosing the affected pipes in insulated tile is a fair stopgap measure but there's no way to avoid heat transfer into the waterfall from the single pipe that's in contact with them.

This is one of those times that one must yearn for abyssalite based insulation (the bubblegum colored stuff)...

Yeah, but I didn't even have plastic when I built this, let alone thimblereed.

On the pipes outside, I enclosed the outputs of the liquid bridges in insulated tiles, but I can't do it inside.  So, I emptied the water and put in 2 ice temp shift plates and a thermosensor warning me if it gets too hot again.

On 11/12/2022 at 10:53 PM, JRup said:

I'm loving this next step in the evolution of the magma pumper that you started with a magma blade and the waterfall. Late game builds will need a little extra automation as waterfalls will lose mass at load times (it does so for me, but read this with a grain of salt).

By the way, I have a warning that pauses the game and gives me like 20,000 seconds warning if the water is running low, so I think I'm going to be OK.

[6Havok9]

I just used this to make a 5x geotuned Niobium volcano tamer. The boosted geyser outputs about 2100grams/sec averaged while the machine reliably outputs 2kg/sec of niobium. And you know for sure by now that breaching the temporal tear is NOT the endgame goal. The endgame goal is niobium paintings, niobium firepoles, niobium airflowtiles. Everywhere!

Minimal cooling is all that's needed to keep the waterfall flowing, plus some wolframite door + diamond tiles + water mass action to keep the Niobium pool at a "low" temperature, especially during the initial thermal shock. 2600c works fine. This heat is transferred to a separate hot box, and then transferred to the main hot box. Insulated obsidian pipes work fine. Or radiant tungsten after valves.

I used a liquid element sensor on the first available pipe segment, directly into two valves at 1kg/sec. It shuts down the pump when it detects niobium, this allows for enough cooling of the very first pipe segment, the one in contact with the waterfall. The other segments don't matter: obsidian and tungsten can handle the situation.. forever.

There is something fascinating about this build. I don't wanna build an old style ultrahot pump anymore. It's operating on a tungsten melting input, but It just keeps on trucking. I suspect that being able to cool that first pipe segment goes a long way and could allow for even hotter liquids to be pumped at 10 kg/sec with some tuning but no insulation involved. Thank you @Zarquan

[Prince Mandor]

Is it possible to position gases in such way to make top left chlorine? To reduce heat exchange even more. Or at least not hydrogen

[JRup]

4 hours ago, Prince Mandor said:

Is it possible to position gases in such way to make top left chlorine? To reduce heat exchange even more. Or at least not hydrogen

The idea is to use amounts of gas that are less than 1g. In-game heat transfer limitations/hard-caps will prevent any and all heat transfer by then. The choice of gas type will be rendered non-important by that point as long as it's a properly built gas-stacking arrangement.

[Prince Mandor]

2 minutes ago, JRup said:

The idea is to use amounts of gas that are less than 1g. In-game heat transfer limitations/hard-caps will prevent any and all heat transfer by then. The choice of gas type will be rendered non-important by that point as long as it's a properly built gas-stacking arrangement.

Yes, I understand. I even built ice glasses with magma before they fixed it (now 100 mg natural ice tile just set temperature to neighbor, or something like that, it just melts and disappears)

But as Zarquan said:

On 11/15/2022 at 7:40 AM, Zarquan said:

It appears that while the lava doesn't transfer heat with the gases, the hot pipes carrying the magma do

and we have pipe going right through our hydrogen tile. So, possibly it is good idea to use less conductive gas at that point?

[JRup]

19 minutes ago, Prince Mandor said:

So, possibly it is good idea to use less conductive gas at that point?

Heat transfer rules will still apply, gas choice remains unimportant... The pipe in question is not in contact with gas, but water. It should ideally be made of abyssalite based insulation (I personally abhor "insulated insulation" but such is Klei's commitment to minor peeves). But ceramic plays nicely as long as you mind the water's temperature:

[Prince Mandor]

Oh! Thank you for explanation!

BTW, wasn't heat exchange limit used here was fixed with fixing <1g natural tile heat exchange?

[JRup]

4 minutes ago, Prince Mandor said:

Oh! Thank you for explanation!

BTW, wasn't heat exchange limit used here was fixed with fixing <1g natural tile heat exchange?

Natural tile will change temperature due to any embedded pipes or tempshift plates that are in contact with them.

Gases or liquids that are in contact with the surface of said tiles are safe.

Here's a neat writeup on the mechanic still working. I've recently tried it and it's safe.

 

[Prince Mandor]

3 minutes ago, JRup said:

Here's a neat writeup on the mechanic still working. I've recently tried it and it's safe.

Well, I used this exact mechanic for more than a year, (using cold water, not glass) and built bases from ice. It worked perfectly, until Fast Friends update, and melted away this summer.

Are you sure it still works? If glass tile just assume temperature of left tile it is not so obvious, glass stay solid at most used temperatures

(I'm not at home now, so cannot re-test it myself)

[JRup]

9 minutes ago, Prince Mandor said:

It worked perfectly, until Fast Friends update, and melted away this summer.

I wouldn't recommend using sub 1g ice for anything else than farming, as stated before these "special" tiles will still undergo temperature change under the right circumstances. The only advantage is temperature isolation from gas and liquid contact.

For glass, well yes, it's not reached melting temperatures in the one steam turbine setup I've built so there is no issue.

[Prince Mandor]

1 minute ago, JRup said:

these "special" tiles will still undergo temperature change under the right circumstances

But there was no 'circumstances'. Just pool with ice walls and magma inside / vacuum outside. And it did melted. So, there WAS heat exchange without pipes, tempshift plates or dancing dupes. OK, I try to re-test it this evening