Nina's Lore 'n Headcanon Galore (Spoilers?)

[Ninaiso]

Hi hello been a while!
I figured I would uh post my silly Lore and headcanon musings here if that's alright! Spoilers inbound!

So uh to begin..

After chewing on the lore and updates and such, I have some theories that Wagstaff is either on earth or on the flipside of the constant? The inconstant?? It is likely connected to or on the Moon! And we're going to see the story come full circle by the end of his meddling with powers he does not understand! Here me out...
From the metheus puzzle murals the first ones lived on the surface worshiping the moon (I think). It likely gave them blessings and such but they desired perhaps more control or maybe in getting their offerings accidentally discovered the power of the darkness/"them". I speculate the eye from the underground portal is "them", though this isn't entirely confirmed but heavily hinted at with the portals boss. Back on Wagstaff; the moon storms let his projections manifest, and they fade out when interacting with the constant (like when we play as him). So he goats the player into building a machine to summon a powerful uhhh moon creature??? The moon obviously knows of and dislikes him as we see from it's anger at the machine and it's birds trying to take out his hologram building the machine. He's learning too much perhaps? I think we can safely confirm that the moon energy he gathered gives his holograms entry to the constant through that portal in curse of moon quay. As they go out overtime, he has to replace them, and they seem to be powered with moon energy. That's what leads me to wondering if he's in inconstant. Or maybe he is simply on Earth and looking to draw power from the inconstant and the constant and merge them into maybe the most powerful force in the universe to harness and use on Earth as he does make comments implying that! Okay yeah it's probably that but we shall see! I'm curious how he even discovered moon energy in the first place really...

The moon and the darkness/"them" are possibly opposing forces such as the moon keeping the darkness/"them" from releasing and destroying all. Like an act of balance. In the forgotten knowledge update Charlie is wanting to get to the sealed portal; possibly to open and take the power for "them"/as "them" (she do be kinda possessed). Leading back to the theory of using/merging the powers creating unspeakable things... Which Wagstaff is likely after and wishing to harness himself and use on Earth.

I feel like we're going to end up making a full circle here, and Wagstaff wanting to harness "them" energy and powers will lead to him being the cane lord (Metheus?) and Wilson being the torch lord (Cyclum?). I mean, Wilson was always introduced holding a torch. And Wagstaff uh... is old and needs a cane?? Hah

 

So anyway that's my lore rambles so far uh let's get to headcanons!
- Maxwell and Charlie potentially had a thing? Come on, they're so cute together pre constant! The notes she wrote and him protecting her when she goes in his house with all the strength he can muster through the photo... I like to speculate she was into him and he was into her, but for her protection kept her at a distance. There is so much angst potential here; she is (rightfully) very angry at him from all that transpired as seen in her hidden response dialogue to him, and it's very possible "them" latched on to that "darkness" in her otherwise kind heart and got to her. Potential Maxwell trying to save Charlie from "them" like come on it would be glorious please Klei aaaaaa

- Winona had a cute gf and they were very nice together, it's practically confirmed. (Okay but in all seriousness her falling on her knees when the factory explodes was a pretty intense reaction so I'm feeling lovers here personally. Close friends is fine as well if you headcanon that though!)

- Wortox is a gamer.

 

I have more but it's almost 3am so I will get back to you all on that, thanks for reading!

[minespatch]

I saw you on the discord! Thanks for posting this in full. I love the forum's editor and archiving system, so you can always make addendums on your original post.

[Ninaiso]

29 minutes ago, minespatch said:

I saw you on the discord! Thanks for posting this in full. I love the forum's editor and archiving system, so you can always make addendums on your original post.

Yes! Hello, good to see you again! I appreciated your encouragement on the forums in discord it definitely helped me post!

I may even dust off my old art thread haha

Edited August 6, 2022 by Ninaiso

[minespatch]

2 hours ago, Ninaiso said:

I may even dust off my old art thread haha

I didn't even know you had a art thread! Is it a year or two ago?

[Ninaiso]

5 hours ago, minespatch said:

I didn't even know you had a art thread! Is it a year or two ago?

Oh aha ahaha it looks like about 7 or 8 years ago. 

[Castaccio]

Hello there! I'm a fellow speculator and I absolutely LOVE headcanon and theory threads like these. I hope you're ok with me joining the conversation!

20 hours ago, Ninaiso said:

Wagstaff is either on earth or on the flipside of the constant?...It is likely connected to or on the Moon!

Or maybe he is...looking to draw power from the inconstant and the constant and merge them into maybe the most powerful force in the universe to harness and use on Earth as he does make comments implying that!

That's what leads me to wondering if he's in inconstant....I'm curious how he even discovered moon energy in the first place really...

Wagstaff's a very weird entity in the whole story. We know a lot about his influence in the real world and how he got to The Constant, but everything after that is a mystery. 
 

His motivation is easiest, and I think you were spot-on. Wagstaff's Hamlet quotes greatly imply that he wants to revolutionize the world using The Constant's magic. However, the way he does it in DST involves Lunar/Enlightenment Essence, in Hamlet—and Solo DS in general—all of his comments about his motives involved Nightmare Fuel. I'm mostly curious about what made him switch between the two, as his general motivation remains the same. 
 

His location is a harder to pin down; we know that he was dragged into The Constant via his own portal in Winona's short, and we first see him on the Hamlet island. His portrayal as a projection introduces several complications, though, but most people resolve this with the idea that he physically resides in Hamlet and sends his projection to various parts of The Constant. This is how Wagstaff can go to Solo DS, Shipwrecked, and DST as a projection.

Curiously, Hamlet has a lot of ties to the moon—especially through the Aporkalypse event. The pigs have a were-curse similar to Woodie's that peaks during Aporkalypse, when the moon turns red, so I think that if there was a chance for him to learn about Enlightenment Essence, it was in Hamlet during the Aporkalypse.
 

20 hours ago, Ninaiso said:

I feel like we're going to end up making a full circle here, and Wagstaff wanting to harness "them" energy and powers will lead to him being the cane lord (Metheus?) and Wilson being the torch lord (Cyclum?). 

As far as I'm aware, Metheus (confirmed female by the devs) is the torch-bearer while Cyclum is the Cane-bearer as well as the Ancient Fuelweaver.

Metheus makes sense for the Torch-bearer since it's short for Prometheus, the Greek titan eternally punished for giving fire to humans, giving more context to her torch.

Cyclum makes sense for the Cane-bearer because "cyclum" is Latin for "cycle", connecting him to the cycle that he started as the ruler of his people—chasing after power that he doesn't understand, without caution, only to end up cursing those around him. It also makes sense with him being the AFW, who namedrops Metheus in battle ("Metheus... / I must do this, for your sake."). The way he talks about her implies that he feels regret, an extension of him being the King who caused her "death."

We've had a second cycle since the Ancients' prime, with Maxwell as Cyclum and Charlie as Metheus. Since the theme of relations between them is "selfish, power-hungry older man curses his formerly close partner with Constant magic", if we were to slot in Wagstaff for Cyclum, then the closest parallel for Metheus would actually be...WX-78, his former assistant/colleague. 

(Honestly, I would love if Klei makes use of this connection somehow, since WX already wants to get the power of the moon and has a deep hatred against Wagstaff, but I'm not sure how that would work while still keeping them as a playable character.)
 

19 hours ago, Ninaiso said:

[Charlie] is (rightfully) very angry at him from all that transpired as seen in her hidden response dialogue to him, and it's very possible "them" latched on to that "darkness" in her otherwise kind heart and got to her. Potential Maxwell trying to save Charlie from "them" like come on it would be glorious please Klei aaaaaa

Charlie is in a very curious state. She's definitely closely aligned with Them, even more so than Maxwell (Maxwell had no idea about Alter while Charlie outright revealed their presence, for one), but she's also shown to have some autonomy.

The description for RoT's Winter's Feast implied that Charlie made the Gingerbread village, and she makes several competing carrats to tag along in the Year of the Rat races (which both Maxwell and Winona say is in-character for her), so she's certainly not entirely possessed.

I also personally feel that her taking up the mantle of Shadow Queen show how much she's grown since she accepted the job as Maxwell's assistant. (I like to think that the Roseate skins, which each character describes with an air of maturity, represent her character arc, but that's almost more of a headcanon than anything.) Even if she's still bright and youthful at heart, she's begun handling very complicated affairs—that could affect multiple worlds—while barely flinching.

With this in mind, I almost want her to stay on the throne, as she seems to be much better suited for it than Maxwell. Of course, I wouldn't complain if there was a way to save her by replacing her with somebody who's both willing to rule and a good ruler.

[Ninaiso]

On 8/8/2022 at 1:07 PM, Castaccio said:

snip

Yes hello for sure get in on the conversation!!

I absolutely agree with Charlie and Maxwell being a parallel for cyclum and Metheus!! I'm just purley hoping it isn't permanent and doesn't repeat itself there as I want them to personally break the cycle and be able to come together again as the rulers should have long ago. If she stays on the throne maybe Maxwell rule alongside her but be way more humble and knowledgeable than he used to? I just personally need reconciliation ugh they were so wonderful together before it all went down lol

Also yes I should've specified she isn't entirely possessed, more like... it was easy for them to latch on to the darkness growing in her heart and nurture that, and in that she became a ruler after combining her conflicting halves. (Or perhaps, she may be suppressing her more empathic half a bit? I did love seeing that duality so hopefully it is brought out again!)

As for wagstaff, I actually also want to see he and WX have their resolution as well!! It would be so interesting to see where it goes ugh. That short hurt me lol

I actually have a slightly different theory on Winona's short! We saw Willow burning evidence of knowledge of "them" and it said "one more to go". I like to interpret that this is the factory and she sets it ablaze and is told to trip the portal or maybe is told the portal will start the fire and it is actually her that is sucked in on Winonas short so they can get rid of her as a witness as well as she was aware of them since she was young. I know a bit of an out there theory and likely not true as Wagstaff does physically reside in Hamlet but if we end up seeing he's not in the constant that's my headcanon for that plothole lol

It's also possible she pushed Wagstaff in the portal before setting the factory on fire who knows, I'm more wondering how Willow does end up in the constant though.

[Castaccio]

Hello again! Sorry it took me so long to reply ^^;

On 8/10/2022 at 6:20 PM, Ninaiso said:

I want them to personally break the cycle and be able to come together again as the rulers should have long ago....

...I just personally need reconciliation ugh they were so wonderful together before it all went down lol

The WC puzzles show such a cool and complex story, and I think that their relationship is the best part.

The last we got on them was in the Forgotten Knowledge trailer and it still gets me... it would be so cool if wet could see more of them in Maxwell's short! Perhaps during his reign?

 

On 8/10/2022 at 6:20 PM, Ninaiso said:

Also yes I should've specified she isn't entirely possessed, more like... it was easy for them to latch on to the darkness growing in her heart and nurture that, and in that she became a ruler after combining her conflicting halves. (Or perhaps, she may be suppressing her more empathic half a bit? I did love seeing that duality so hopefully it is brought out again!)

I'm still confused on how her duality works, personally. The New Reign Cinematic shows that both her halves combined, but the jumpscare at the end implies that the shadows are dominant. But then her in-game presence is still her normal self. I suppose Them "latching onto" her is the best way to describe it right now.

 

On 8/10/2022 at 6:20 PM, Ninaiso said:

As for wagstaff, I actually also want to see he and WX have their resolution as well!! It would be so interesting to see where it goes ugh. That short hurt me lol

Same!!

 

On 8/10/2022 at 6:20 PM, Ninaiso said:

I actually have a slightly different theory on Winona's short! We saw Willow burning evidence of knowledge of "them" and it said "one more to go". I like to interpret that this is the factory...and it is actually her that is sucked in on Winonas short so they can get rid of her as a witness...

...It's also possible she pushed Wagstaff in the portal before setting the factory on fire who knows, I'm more wondering how Willow does end up in the constant though.

Glad to see we share the same broad strokes! I also believe that the note refers to the factory, though I don't think she had a much greater involvement. Something tells me that the nature of the deal would require a more personal means of disposal.

That said, it would be cool if she and Wagstaff had a tousle in the portal room that led to Willow dragging Wagstaff in! 

 

Also, I forgot to mention...

On 8/6/2022 at 9:37 AM, Ninaiso said:

Winona had a cute gf and they were very nice together, it's practically confirmed.

(Okay but in all seriousness her falling on her knees when the factory explodes was a pretty intense reaction so I'm feeling lovers here personally. Close friends is fine as well if you headcanon that though!)

"Genny (short for Genevieve) and her fellow Voxola workers first appeared in the animated short Next of Kin....

"...Genny was was named by DST writer Kris during Rhymes with Play #228."

(—DS/T Wiki)