Why and how Klei should add Mumsy and Billy to dst

[Szczuku]

Klei dev #27 that reads the suggestion subforum I need you to understand that I'm [desperate] at this point when it comes to this topic.

Why do I think Klei should add Mumsy and Billy into the game? Several reasons actually:

Spoiler

-Lore, or rather timeline, consistency. You see dst's timeline looks a bit like this: 'NR, forge, gorge, survivors and goats jump into the victorian gateway while Charlie is sucking up gateway's power, Suddently survivors are back in the Constant, Charlie doesn't do anything interesting, the goats are nowhere to be seen and the moon decided to drop a piece of itself into the ocean, RoT, Oh wagstaff's here now i guess, moon quay'. As you can see there's a pretty big plot hole right in the middle of the timeline that Klei never bothered to properly patch up. And I know what you're going to say 'Well we can assume that the gateway spewed the survivors back out into the constant while goats flew somewhere else and the moon dropped a piece of itself because charlie was now more powerful thanks to the energry she sucked up from the gateway'. And here's the thing: you're right! That is a pretty good way to explain, end and connect the gateway arc to rot, except that Klei never did that, it's all an assumption and with no evidence at that, since I'm pretty sure there's no animation, description, character quote or dev input that confirms that.

-Gorge was pretty cool and I'd like to get some more stuff out of it

-Mumsy and Billy didn't deserve to be treated like that Klei

-Perhaps cooking could use a bit of changes and what better update than the one which makes a callback to Gorge

-People are apparently getting tired of ocean-based updates

Now, how would I like this kind of update to be handled? I think Mumsy and Billy should have their own little area in one of the dark forests. I chose dark forest since those biomes are kinda boring but more importantly, they are the closest to Gorge's gloomy aesthetic. A house that looks like a mix between victorian and rural, 2 farm tiles with some crops, a tapped sugarwood tree, some berry vines growing on a fence and a decoration like the ones in the Gorge. Those things as well as NPCs themselves should be untouchable, cannot be killed, burned, hammered etc. Well maybe if you bring some hostile mob over Mumsy and Billy would retreat into their house. Handle teleporting them away same way you handled it with Pearl. Around that area pigeons would spawn, acting as a source of gray feathers outside winter. Maybe pebble crabs could start spawning in rocky biomes as an invasive species.

Billy would look the same but Mumsy would no longer be covered in scales, maybe the mermification can be cured or simply it disappears when not fully complete

Alright so what would be the point of them? Trading of course. In the manner of being a walking crafting station, just like in Gorge

How would trading work? I think it'd be appropriate if Mumsy would request survival-related items since now she and her son have to survive in the Constant. You'd be able to buy blueprints, seeds, sugarwood saplings, spice bushes, recipes, kits etc. Items that you're expected to buy many times would change their 'price' after purchasing them for the first time. For example, let's say that, sugarwood tree would require 2 tree jams but after the first purchase it'd only cost 1 glommer goop. Salt stick kit would require 1 lantern and 2 ropes but would later only cost 5 lightbulbs. Stuff that each player is supposed to buy once (such as blueprints and recipes) wouldn't change its price

Now, onto describing stuff

Spoiler

-Sugarwood trees- trees from the Gorge. You can tap them for sap which could later be used in crafting and cooking, trees that are tapped and ready don't rot if left unattended. Also pretty decoration. You'd first need to cook sap into syrup and then use it in cooking.

-Bucket to gather the sap with

-Spice bushes- same function as in the Gorge but grows back this time.

-Salt stick- place it near a shore and it'll slowly produce 1 salt crystal for you to harvest. Maybe at the speed which salt formations regrow

-Seeds- 4 seeds per purchase. Wheat and beets from Gorge. Seeds dropped by birds cannot grow them. Also maybe wheat could be turned into a hay stack for decoration or maybe that'd just be its giant variant. 

-Recipes- Recipes from the Gorge. Work like a blueprint (you read them). Cookbook now has a 3rd section for those recipes. I think they should be forgotten every world ao that you have to buy them every time. If you try to make a dish without having read the recipe you get the closest other dish. Maybe those Gorge dishes could have some special effects. Not as powerful as Warly's but something nice nonetheless, such as increased defense for a single next attack.

-Decorations- stuff like tombstones, statues or repaired versions of ruined buildings from the Gorge. Either bought as a placable thing or a blueprint to learn

-Slaughter tool- If you use it on a sleeping, non-boss monster it kills them (one use only, could have an expensive cost). You'd need to put the mob to sleep first as using it on a naturally sleeping mob would wake it up and make it hostile

-Mealing stone kit- Acts the same as in Gorge, a crafting station to make flour, spice and everything nice table salt. You'd no longer be able to salt food with salt crystals, instead you'd need to change it into table salt.

-Maybe some new turf, or blueprints for it

-Maybe Mumsy could still sell her milk. Or maybe she'd just say something like "Sorry, Billy no longer drinks milk so I cannot offer you any"

Some ideas for character quotes:

Spoiler

-Winona examining Mumsy: "What took y'all so long? 'Goat' stuck in a traffic jam? Ha!"- this is a pretty important quote imo as it would show that you guys do understand the mistake you've made and can laugh at it, that'd put you in a good light

-Willow examining Mumsy's farm tiles/crops: "Fine, I won't burn it... but you better have some good food to offer"

-Wx-78 examining the house: "ONE DAY I'LL DESTROY EVERYTHING YOU HOLD DEAR, STARTING WITH THIS HOUSE"

-Wickerbottom examining berry vines: "Incredible, She's managed to grow local berries like grapes"

-Warly examining Mumsy: "I've finally found my spirit anima- err... a cooking partner!"

-Wanda examining the house: "Seems like I've missed the period with victorian goats. Shame"

-Wurt examining Billy: "Me want to play with... Billy?"

-Wx-78 examining Mumsy: "YOU'VE ESCAPED YOUR SUFFERING IN THE BOG ONLY TO END UP SUFFERING HERE. HA HA"

-Webber examining Billy: "At least they don't have to worry about the big mouth anymore"

-Walter examining Mumsy: "Wow! Goatpeople! Others have told me about you. Was the giant mouth in the sky really true?"

-Woodie examining Mumsy's sugarwood tree: "It's not maple but I respect the tapping and syrup"

Cooking changes. I don't think that cooking in dst is bad but it could maybe be changed a bit. I'm leaving that to Klei. 

What would I change? 

Add a 5th fire-looking slot that needs to be filled with something flamable in order for the cooking to start. Doesn't matter if it's rot or a board, cooking would still take the same ammount of time.
Divide cooking into 3 stations from the Gorge: a crockpot, an oven and a grill. Cookbook would now also display at which station said meal is made. I think this would make it more interesting and players could decide which station's meals they like the best as in crockpot can make pierogies but honeyham can only be made in the oven etc. Of course every station would have some sanity, health, veggie, meat dishes. Plus 2 new items for Klei to add skins to

Unintentional Warly buffs.

Warly's crockpot can make every dish, even those oven/grill-exclusive. His grinding mill can be used to make flour and spice, but of course Warly's stuff can only be used by him. Spicing food with new spice gives it a bonus that increases one's speed

New skins. With Mumsy and Billy's ruturn new victorian skins would arrive:

Spoiler

-Gnaw wormhole. When closed looks like dark clouds on the ground, Gnaw when opened

-Rotten tree stump skin for mushroom planter. Like the one form Gorge

-Victorian Wanda (and maybe Wonkey)

-Victorian cookbook

-Victorian saltlick

-Victorian boat parts

-Victorian pig house

-Victorian Chester

-Victorian Hutch as a mermefied victorian chester

Now, how should Klei handle the trailer. I don't think there should be one. Instead make a cinematic (so without gameplay bits)

Survivors and Goats jump into the victorian gateway and are flying through the classic black and white spiral. Meanwhile Charlie is still messing with the ancient gateway and pulls her hand away from it causing the survivors to come back but the Goats are still going. She slinks back into the shadows and (maybe using her eye) the shot transitions into the 'Moon' (pre RoT) which forms a small crack on its surface that'd emit light. Then maybe we'd get to see Goats' travels through other dimensions of the dst universe, Klei could go ham here. Ultimately that'd all lead to a scene where Mumsy holds Billy up and he places a silver bowl as an antenna on a machine. The camera would then turn around to show calm and collected Wagstaff before we hear the machine power up and open a portal.

Of course its not perfect since I don't know anything about making animations but I think it's a great way to end the gateway arc, connect it to RoT (and explain why 'moon' did what it did) and show that Wagstaff ultimately became a problem he is now because of Charlie and Survivors' doing

Alright so the last matter, why do all this, what would the game gain?

Well the reason #1 is of course to fix that plot hole and bring Mumsy and Billy back to life. Other reasons? Decorations for people that enjoy sandbox, and maybe some not bad dishes made from garbage items for new/struggling players. For example the stone soup, a ratatouille-like dish made out of rocks could be decent to a new player that feeds themselves with fistfulls of jam.
Klei could also rework how dishes themselves work in order to make Gorge's recipes maybe more impactful, but changing how cooking works is already a risky thing to do, touching dishes' stats is borderline crazy

Alright, enough of my ranting

[Mike23Ua]

The problem with adding gorge or forge content or characters into DST is that people playing On Xbox never got to experience that content to begin with- so it would be like doing an entire battle pass season leading up to the arrival of a new character, but people only start playing the game once the new character is added- they won’t know the back story.. they won’t know why X hates Y or so on.. Billy & Mumsy would be just like Crabby Granny Pearl to them- some random new “thing” Klei added in the newest update.

I feel like Klei should re-run or add to the game permanently the gorge/forge content, because without it.. you have to look up on the internet to even find out who/what Billy & Mumsy even are.

So in short: They May as well not even exist.

[Ardcrumb]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

The problem with adding gorge or forge content or characters into DST is that people playing On Xbox never got to experience that content to begin with- so it would be like doing an entire battle pass season leading up to the arrival of a new character, but people only start playing the game once the new character is added- they won’t know the back story.. they won’t know why X hates Y or so on.. Billy & Mumsy would be just like Crabby Granny Pearl to them- some random new “thing” Klei added in the newest update.

I feel like Klei should re-run or add to the game permanently the gorge/forge content, because without it.. you have to look up on the internet to even find out who/what Billy & Mumsy even are.

So in short: They May as well not even exist.

We did get the gorge though

[Szczuku]

On 8/1/2022 at 12:12 AM, Mike23Ua said:

The problem with adding gorge or forge content or characters into DST is that people playing On Xbox never got to experience that content to begin with- so it would be like doing an entire battle pass season leading up to the arrival of a new character, but people only start playing the game once the new character is added- they won’t know the back story.. they won’t know why X hates Y or so on.. Billy & Mumsy would be just like Crabby Granny Pearl to them- some random new “thing” Klei added in the newest update

I'm sorry but how is that an issue?

I'm sure there's a lot of dst players who haven't been around when Maxwell's lore was revealed. They'd just have to look Gorge up on the internet if they'd be that curious

[Jinjetica]

did you forget about Wurt? they are obscuring something from us, and it actually feels intentional to me, she is intrinsically tied to the gorge event, and is the last bit of information we have about what happened to the goats. It's possible that mumsy and all the goats are merms, she was already becoming a merm, arguably, she looked like she was growing scales, and Wurt's victorian skin looks like a mixture of goat and fish as well. ngl, some more npcs would be pretty cool though, especially Mumsy. I love the ideas you presented here!!!

[Szczuku]

3 hours ago, Jinjetica said:

did you forget about Wurt?

No I didn't. I also believe that she'd be a much more interesting character if she was a mermefied goat child but aside from her victorian skin there's not really any evidence for that. Which is why in op's "quotes" section I added Wurt's 'Me want to play with... Billy?'. That pause and question mark would indicate that she may be remembering her time as a goat.

3 hours ago, Jinjetica said:

she is intrinsically tied to the gorge event, and is the last bit of information we have about what happened to the goats

Unfortunatelly that's not really true. She wasn't around during Gorge and Klei has only given her some vague quotes when examining spawned Gorge items. The most important one that I know of is something along the lines of 'Mermfolk have a story... about a mouth in the sky' which indicates that Gorge is canon when it comes to Merm origins and culture. It's nice but that's about everything that Wurt has to say regarding Gorge. At least as far as I know she has nothing to say regarding Mumsy and Billy's fate

3 hours ago, Jinjetica said:

I love the ideas you presented here!!!

Thank you!

[Memetan]

Klei just forgot Gorge exist, Wurt has a boring backstory, even people wanted to connect her to the gorge, but she is a normal merm. And in my personal opinion the update of the money island will be much better if the island was a piece of gorge island, being something that is not from the constant dimension but something that we know, instead of annoying monkeys, the Wonkey curse, a queen that only have 3 uses, and a palette color that burn my eyes.

[Frosty_Mentos]

Honestly I'd love if Gorge event was a thing in the Constant as one of activatable events.
We got the monke transformations I see merm ones being a thing.

[Szczuku]

I'm glad that this thread got some traction again cuz it helped me realize something

I can shamelesly plug part one of it  :^ )

Spoiler

Did the community forget about the Gateway Arc? - [Don't Starve Together] General Discussion - Klei Entertainment Forums

But on  a serious note, what I realized is, if Klei would indeed carry out this update's cinematic like how I described it:

On 7/31/2022 at 11:32 PM, Szczuku said:

Spoiler

Survivors and Goats jump into the victorian gateway and are flying through the classic black and white spiral. Meanwhile Charlie is still messing with the ancient gateway and pulls her hand away from it causing the survivors to come back but the Goats are still going. She slinks back into the shadows and (maybe using her eye) the shot transitions into the 'Moon' (pre RoT) which forms a small crack on its surface that'd emit light. Then maybe we'd get to see Goats' travels through other dimensions of the dst universe, Klei could go ham here. Ultimately that'd all lead to a scene where Mumsy holds Billy up and he places a silver bowl as an antenna on a machine. The camera would then turn around to show calm and collected Wagstaff before we hear the machine power up and open a portal.

 

...then that gives Klei free opportunity to add more 'unfitting' plants, items and/or mobs into the game. If Mumsy and Billy did travel through who-knows-how-many dimentions before ending up in the Constant then who's to say that they haven't picked up any 'souvenirs' along the way.

Instead of just selling wheat and beets when it comes to seeds maybe they could also sell some new, never-before-seen seeds. Beans, plants that don't yield anything eatable but instead water the soil, or crops that you harvest for crafting resources. And those are just the examples related to crops that I came up with in 3 minutes. And there are other aspects of the game that Goats' trading could affect, that I've mentioned in the op: decoration, cooking, resource gathering, plants.

Klei could not only go crazy by showing us some new dimensions in the cinematic. They could also (or at least give themselves an easy way to) add many things that would otherwise feel off in an update or require an out of place-type update (like Moon Quay)