Mr Giggio Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 I want to start this post congratulating Klei in the changes, Tox is in a good spot already and he doesnt need much more. Me and many people here are happy with what you guys did and for that, thank u for the effort put in the hard work. HOWEVER I want to take advantage to the fact Wortox is receiving this love to point out some welcome changes, once seems its now or never. This is a quote from ShadowDuelist in another thread which I totally agree could be add for good "[...]As a matter of fact I’d even expand Wortox powers even further: - be able to tell what allies need healing, maybe even to the extent of being able to see all the other creatures “souls” (hp) - be able to teleport active ridden beefalos - be able to heal minions, specially now since we have 2 very good minion characters and one of which can share part of this perk with Wortox via Wurt mask - Be able to heal ridden beefalos, for a more engaging late game Wortox." And add a possibility to be able to fully lit a Night light with a soul. I think this needs to be seen cuz it can add so much for him in a QoL aspect without actually buffing the character. What u guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberSkink Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 I support this wholeheartedly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabovisk Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Lindo disse tudo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 I mean the teleporting Beefalo thing is kinda actually pointless to add??? A Beefalo that is bound to you with a bell will follow that bell everywhere you go.. even if you soul hop across a river gap- Don’t be fooled into thinking people just want to jump across small streams with their Beefalo Klei, these people really only want this so they can have Teleporting Beefalo during Combat… Otherwise: A Wortox who soul hops across a gap will have its bell bonded Beefalo spawn near to him once he is on land again. However while I do NOT Agree with teleporting Beefalo while riding… I DO Agree with the ability to use souls to heal the Beefalo your riding. All the other listed changes (besides teleporting Beefalo or becoming a Postman delivery Imp) sound great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDuelist Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 11 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said: I mean the teleporting Beefalo thing is kinda actually pointless to add??? A Beefalo that is bound to you with a bell will follow that bell everywhere you go.. even if you soul hop across a river gap- For long distance teleporting that is correct, the bell is more than enough. However the point of "soul hopping" your beefalo with you is not mobility, but be able to take advantage of teleporting your beef as a means of dodging attacks without kiting. What does this accomplish? Wortox will get the late game advantage of being able to use an ornery beefalo with a war saddle during most (if not all) fights, basically amplifying the beefalo fight powers by being able to land more hits faster (bonus points if you cancel the attack animation of the beef), with the highest damage possible the beefalo can provide and without the speed penalty of not using a glossamer. If he can also heal the beefalo, then the combo is complete. All of this requires a lot of time invested and some skill to accomplish, so I think its pretty fair. The point of my suggestion is to add options to a long term commitment with Wortox, basically allowing you to have a late game where you can use merms as allies (and heal them) and a war beefalo as a main weapon/armor, along with keep using your perks in fights in the long term, even if alone. It gives the character some evolution over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcwell Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 14 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said: I do NOT Agree with teleporting Beefalo while riding… Just want to point out this is already doable with lazy explorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, Arcwell said: Just want to point out this is already doable with lazy explorer. Yeah maybe it is.. but I don’t think anyone is going to have a lazy explorer as early as Day 1- Meanwhile I can get a Beefalo and start taming it and plenty of souls in the first few minutes Joining as Wortox.. Its not balanced not even in the slightest bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Giggio Posted July 22, 2022 Author Share Posted July 22, 2022 58 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said: I mean the teleporting Beefalo thing is kinda actually pointless to add? Just by the fact u dont have to dismount the beefalo and get stuck in that animation to then Soul hop every time u need to would be amazing and u clearly dont realize that cuz u dont want to regardless how reasonable it is. Like I didnt said I want to the beefalo teleport as well Its just a shortcut to soul hop the character without this animations everytime. The beefalo can get behind, the suggestion is about him jumping straight from the saddle to ground without having to pass throught that animation in my point of view Even if the beef comes with Wortox isnt that big of the deal at the point it is OP. I would be so glad if they could modify this "oh u need to dismount if u want to Cross this River" situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faintly Macabre Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 51 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said: Yeah maybe it is.. but I don’t think anyone is going to have a lazy explorer as early as Day 1- Meanwhile I can get a Beefalo and start taming it and plenty of souls in the first few minutes Joining as Wortox.. Its not balanced not even in the slightest bit. Yeah, they won't have one as early as day 1, so they won't be able to telepoof at all. Buuuut Wortox can. It's his schtick. This is an incredibly silly nitpick. Being able to hop with his beefalo is absolutely not a balance issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 10 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said: Yeah, they won't have one as early as day 1, so they won't be able to telepoof at all. Buuuut Wortox can. It's his schtick. This is an incredibly silly nitpick. Being able to hop with his beefalo is absolutely not a balance issue. The problem with that is- If Wortox can Soul Hop another living creature (such as your Beefalo) then he would be the biggest jerk the game has ever had- worse than Maxwell locking poor Wes in a Invisible maze and making poor Wilson travel 5 randomly generated worlds of torture, Worse than Charlie wigging out between hurting and helping, Worse than whatever no doubt evil thing Wagstaff is up to.. Wortox would be bottom of the barrel lowest of low… Because if he can teleport a Beefalo, (and teleport into other realms) he could’ve just teleported the other survivors out of the constant to save them from their misery. You guys said you can soul hop on a Beefalo with a Lazy Explorer.. so I’m honestly not seeing why Wortox shouldn’t need a Lazy Explorer to Soul Hop as well. Outside of direct combat: when will anyone ever use a Beefalo to travel as Wortox when they can now pick a spot and teleport to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faintly Macabre Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said: The problem with that is- If Wortox can Soul Hop another living creature (such as your Beefalo) then he would be the biggest jerk the game has ever had- worse than Maxwell locking poor Wes in a Invisible maze and making poor Wilson travel 5 randomly generated worlds of torture, Worse than Charlie wigging out between hurting and helping, Worse than whatever no doubt evil thing Wagstaff is up to.. Wortox would be bottom of the barrel lowest of low… Because if he can teleport a Beefalo, (and teleport into other realms) he could’ve just teleported the other survivors out of the constant to save them from their misery. You guys said you can soul hop on a Beefalo with a Lazy Explorer.. so I’m honestly not seeing why Wortox shouldn’t need a Lazy Explorer to Soul Hop as well. Outside of direct combat: when will anyone ever use a Beefalo to travel as Wortox when they can now pick a spot and teleport to it? While I am generally against using weak lore implications to justify decisions to make things less convenient/fun, I'll engage this one just to point out that the fact that he can teleport a thing with him a short distance does not logically mean he can take it out of the constant with him. And we gave you the reason why: because he doesn't need a Lazy Explorer to teleport. And once again, this idea that Wortox can or should soul hop literally everywhere he goes has no grounding in reality. Yes, yes, you can hoard hundreds of butterflies or whatever to get you return trips and such, but catching all those critters takes time. Time that would in many situations probably be equally well or even just better spent traveling. And once you get where you're going, you probably still need to move around some? Which you can do faster on a beefalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxXolot Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 22 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said: If Wortox can Soul Hop another living creature (such as your Beefalo) then he would be the biggest jerk the game has ever had I don't understand, if Wortox can already Soul Hop with an Eye Bones and linked Beefalo Bell, then he technically is already soul hopping living creature, especially if we are talking about map soul hop. You can't expect him soul hop to Lunar Island from main land and then lore wise suggesting Chester and his Beefalo swim all the way to the Lunar Island lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 My point is: people want this to be a viable option to Wortox in the “Late Game” and I don’t consider something I can do as early as Day 1 (if world Gen is in my favor..) to be “Late Game” Take for example Wolfgang’s rework- to get Gembells his best Dumbell available to him requires both purple gems and Thelucite. Wickerbottoms moon book requires visiting lunar Island and the Underground Archives. Its “too powerful” of a perk to have as early as Day 1.. now if Wortox would become more powerful over time, needed Purple Gems for long distance teleports, or even if he just needed to go to the Archives and eat some ancient food that made his powers stronger.. Wortox would feel like he has actually “Earned Something” for late game. Im fine with Wortox getting these perks- I’m NOT fine with it costing as little as a few butterflies or bees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcwell Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said: Its “too powerful” of a perk to have as early as Day 1.. I'm confused. How does the beefalo specifically make teleporting too powerful? It deals 34 per damage with slower attack speed than a weapon, a fresh ham bat by comparison deals 59.5. Beef tanks a bunch, sure, but wouldn't the point of teleporting be to avoid damage? Beef's also faster, sure, but wouldn't the point of teleporting be to avoid walking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 15 minutes ago, Arcwell said: I'm confused. How does the beefalo specifically make teleporting too powerful? It deals 34 per damage with slower attack speed than a weapon, a fresh ham bat by comparison deals 59.5. Beef tanks a bunch, sure, but wouldn't the point of teleporting be to avoid damage? Beef's also faster, sure, but wouldn't the point of teleporting be to avoid walking? If it wasn’t powerful, it wouldn’t be an ability locked behind needing a lazy explorer to perform- Klei would’ve just made Beefalos able to teleport since day 1. To fight Dragonfly (the correct way) would likely require at least some cobblestone roads and a Walking cane or else you can’t outrun it’s attacks. A teleporting Beefalo- which is Armor, Speed & Weapon all in one: would be pretty unfair in this scenario. Beefalos also passively Regenerate health so no need to bring healing foods- that’s not even touching the suggestion of dropping souls to help speed up their recovery process. I love Wortox, he’s in like my top 4 most played- but even I don’t feel he needs that much power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcwell Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said: If it wasn’t powerful, it wouldn’t be an ability locked behind needing a lazy explorer to perform- Klei would’ve just made Beefalos able to teleport since day 1. To fight Dragonfly (the correct way) would likely require at least some cobblestone roads and a Walking cane or else you can’t outrun it’s attacks. A teleporting Beefalo- which is Armor, Speed & Weapon all in one: would be pretty unfair in this scenario. Beefalos also passively Regenerate health so no need to bring healing foods- that’s not even touching the suggestion of dropping souls to help speed up their recovery process. I love Wortox, he’s in like my top 4 most played- but even I don’t feel he needs that much power. Just wanna clarify: Are you saying Wortox shouldn't be able to teleport in combat period, or Wortox shouldn't be able to teleport in combat with a beefalo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copyafriend Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 I would like to pitch in and say it sounds interesting if he was able to heal minions, but i think it would be counterproductive when it comes to his ability to heal other players, turning a webber or wurt into an active detriment for a wortox to be around, he cant heal himself if his healing ability is diluted by 20 spiders the webber always has around. Its also counter to his gameplay of being the anti minion monster character. Overall i think it would add anti synergy more than synergy as his healing wouldnt be a great benefit for a merm or spider. Unless undiluted ofc i think the ability of wortox to teleport either directly off of a beefalo or to teleport bringint the beefalo with him are both interesting options. Neither too oddly balanced. The bell already brings beefalo along for long distance, and the river scenario would solve a bit of tedium. My counterpoint i suppose is: if wortox can teleport the beef, a player with a lazy explorer should be able to as well. That is fair at least imho. Either neither can teleport the beef or they both are able to. And if the lazy explorer can teleport off of the beef wortox should too. oh, and healing the beef feels like a pointless addition, with a full soul count he’d wouldnt even heal half of its health. edit: made a poll about this same topic to see community opinions, probably my forth poll for this update alone #ILoveINFO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faintly Macabre Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 28 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said: If it wasn’t powerful, it wouldn’t be an ability locked behind needing a lazy explorer to perform- Klei would’ve just made Beefalos able to teleport since day 1. Yeah, they've definitely never overlooked a scenario before or anything. Also who's fighting Dragonfly with a beefalo? You can't realistically tank her with one, and the timing to keep her from using her moving punch is entirely too finicky. Very risky for minimal benefit, even if you could soul hop on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joao199317 Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Very good ideas friend. Keep it up with the good work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joao199317 Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said: I mean the teleporting Beefalo thing is kinda actually pointless to add??? A Beefalo that is bound to you with a bell will follow that bell everywhere you go.. even if you soul hop across a river gap- Don’t be fooled into thinking people just want to jump across small streams with their Beefalo Klei, these people really only want this so they can have Teleporting Beefalo during Combat… Otherwise: A Wortox who soul hops across a gap will have its bell bonded Beefalo spawn near to him once he is on land again. However while I do NOT Agree with teleporting Beefalo while riding… I DO Agree with the ability to use souls to heal the Beefalo your riding. All the other listed changes (besides teleporting Beefalo or becoming a Postman delivery Imp) sound great! I Agree with you. its sound great indeed. Mssoratori have some good ideas now and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Giggio Posted July 22, 2022 Author Share Posted July 22, 2022 53 minutes ago, Copyafriend said: if wortox can teleport the beef, a player with a lazy explorer should be able to as well. It is possible already since the Year of the Beefalo update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joao199317 Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Just now, MrSoratori said: It is possible already since the Year of the Beefalo update Also, before this rework, Wortox was nothing more than a Wilson that jumps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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