WX modules (except speed) feel more like QOL than actual perks

[reallychina]

Right now what WX has and no other characters have is massive speed buffs and clockwork proximity deaggro (meaning he can mine everything in ruins and craft anything he needs without aggroing a single clockwork). Everything else he has is an already existing item. therefore something that all characters can already do albeit not as relaxed as he does.

 

So anyone wanting to capitalize on his strenghts will either go 3x speed or 1 speed and nightvision for ruins (but you can do ruins on 3x speed no nightvision too and it's even better if you can pull it off). Going anything except that will make him weaker. 

 

The other modules need to be buffed or new modules added, nerfing speed (20% 30% 37%) and making nightvision cost 5 slots and maybe have a screen mask like wagstaff's visor has.

 

His perks need to be actually worth getting and add to gameplay. Even if they are useful in specific situations only, at least you get a reason to switch and use wx as intended.

 

For example, the freezing perk could freeze larvae on 3-5 hits, and hit dfly for 25% more damage, making wx good for no walls dragonfly. The freezing could extend to fire hounds for example, making him oneshot them

 

The heat perk could make him oneshot ice hounds and maybe do extra damage to deerclops and winter mobs

 

The stomach perk should make him get 50% more benefits from food (healing/hunger/sanity)

 

The sanity perk should make him leech sanity or health from nightmare creatures or something. Or do extra damage to shadow creatures only.

 

Last but not least, he needs an actual damage module. Most obvious would be an electric one that only works on wet targets, doing 30%+ more damage. This would make him good for spring fighting but would also put him at greater risk because he needs to fight in rain.

 

The overall point is that the other perks need to somehow be worth getting over speed and (sometimes) nightvision. And be more than item replacements.

[Gashzer]

59 minutes ago, reallychina said:

Snip

Unpopular opinion incoming.... Qol perks (seasonal/light/speed) are better than damage buff perks. Wx's seasonal circuits are fantastic as is.

Wx's circuits are meant to be swapped depending on your needs, thats the whole point... the charge meter makes it so you need to plan a day or 2 in advance for winter an summer... but i think thats a fair balance considering how versatile wx is now.

Would rather play Wx now with his Qol perks than wanda or wolfgang with their damage boosts.

Just my hot take tho...

[reallychina]

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Unpopular opinion incoming.... Qol perks (seasonal/light/speed) are better than damage buff perks. Wx's seasonal circuits are fantastic as is.

Wx's circuits are meant to be swapped depending on your needs, thats the whole point... the charge meter makes it so you need to plan a day or 2 in advance for winter an summer... but i think thats a fair balance considering how versatile wx is now.

Would rather play Wx now with his Qol perks than wanda or wolfgang with their damage boosts.

Just my hot take tho...

It doesnt have to be damage. Only some of my suggestions were damage related and they buffed existing modules.

 

Gaining more food benefits is not damage related, sanity or health leech from shadows only isnt damage related, freezing dfly larve isnt damage related.

The damage perks i suggested are also highly contextual, further encouraging module switching.

The modules as they are now are only replacing items.

[Left 4 Sharkb8]

I think I generally understand what you mean

For me, WX feels lacking in any really meaningful circuits, nothing that really feels special or notable. In a sense, almost every single thing that WX's circuits do is already in the game, and the versions that you can access via circuits are often simplified or easier to obtain.

The circuits make it feel more like WX has had a perk slot taken and broken into several significantly smaller perks. And while this gives WX a lot of utility, it makes me feel as though there's not exactly much to look forward to or be hyped about. It doesn't quite feel like there's something to get excited over when you can finally access a new circuit. The most expensive one, being the Dronemaster Circuit, is also the worst one out of all of them, which certainly doesn't help. 

 

All in all, I'd really appreciate some more unique and game-changing circuits, even though it may be too late for additional modules or large changes to the functionality of existing ones.

 

I might as well also add that yes, I would also advocate for some kind of combat circuit, as it feels like an important piece to complete what is now shaping up to be an all-encompassing utility character.

[reallychina]

21 hours ago, Left 4 Sharkbai said:

For me, WX feels lacking in any really meaningful circuits, nothing that really feels special or notable.

That's what i've been trying to say and i don't understand how my posts calling the modules QOL reach people in such odd ways.

 

WX doesn't have something that makes you play the game differently, which is the point of picking a different char. Even Wurt, as bad as it it, makes you change the way you play the game and has very specific and unique perks. Same as Wanda, Wolfgang, Woodie, Wigfrid, Wendy etc.

 

WX plays like Wilson with a twist. All of his modules exist already as items and everyone can use them.

[Rhomer]

I agree but I don't think speed is OP. Having niche/situational circuits is great but waiting a full day just to change circuits is too much, movement speed is just too good for general use specially since all other circuits can be substituted with items/equipment. Even if you were able to change circuits on the fly you would need inventory space for the pliers and circuits which would have been better used as space for items/equipment. You'd need circuits that do more than just what items already do, right now the only circuit that does that is speed.

[Left 4 Sharkb8]

2 hours ago, reallychina said:

That's what i've been trying to say and i don't understand how my posts calling the modules QOL reach people in such odd ways.

 

WX doesn't have something that makes you play the game differently, which is the point of picking a different char. Even Wurt, as bad as it it, makes you change the way you play the game and has very specific and unique perks. Same as Wanda, Wolfgang, Woodie, Wigfrid, Wendy etc.

 

WX plays like Wilson with a twist. All of his modules exist already as items and everyone can use them.

I think it's likely that WX has been designed with new players in mind, which lead to most of the circuits being very simplistic, and simply making it easier to manage something you might be having trouble with. It wouldn't be completely out of left field, after all, since WX's previous lack of many perks and simple stat buffs made them a simple choice for many new players. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 hours ago, reallychina said:

Even Wurt, as bad as it it,

i was supporting this topic until i read this. You sir have made an enemy

[00petar00]

We don't need so many combat oriented characters and with how versatile WX-78 is that would make him too strong if he had a circuit that gave him the damage even if it is weaker compared to Wanda or Wolfgang.

Also three speed circuits will never be the best choice because it is 25/40/50%, why would you ever put third one for 10% speed.

I actually think that his other circuits are worthwhile that he should only get one acceleration 2.0 circuit for 25% speed and stop at that, while there could be a lot of situations where 40% speed is really useful too.

I also understand that speed is the most powerful stat in the game but that doesn't mean having permanent night vision is much weaker and not ever caring about using resources for light.

[Left 4 Sharkb8]

6 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

We don't need so many combat oriented characters and with how versatile WX-78 is that would make him too strong if he had a circuit that gave him the damage even if it is weaker compared to Wanda or Wolfgang.

Also three speed circuits will never be the best choice because it is 25/40/50%, why would you ever put third one for 10% speed.

I actually think that his other circuits are worthwhile that he should only get one acceleration 2.0 circuit for 25% speed and stop at that, while there could be a lot of situations where 40% speed is really useful too.

I also understand that speed is the most powerful stat in the game but that doesn't mean having permanent night vision is much weaker and not ever caring about using resources for light.

I kinda disagree on the sentiment about combat characters. Combat characters tend to provide more variety and freshness to what is arguably one of the more monotonous parts of the game, and combat prowess is one of the few things that can even compete with the supposed value of speed in the first place, as it provides a pretty clear benefit, as opposed to something that just helps you with something that you're struggling with.

 

[00petar00]

13 minutes ago, Left 4 Sharkbai said:

I kinda disagree on the sentiment about combat characters. Combat characters tend to provide more variety and freshness to what is arguably one of the more monotonous parts of the game, and combat prowess is one of the few things that can even compete with the supposed value of speed in the first place, as it provides a pretty clear benefit, as opposed to something that just helps you with something that you're struggling with.

 

DST is after all a multiplayer game, with that comes different characters that should do different things, its not fun to see literally every character with a damage modifier of some kind while there could be so many unique abilities in the game that help the team or have great synergy.

Wortox healing while it is quite strong is one really fun ability that helps the team ,same goes with Wigfrid's songs for example. 

What kind of freshness do they provide that current combat characters don't give you and are you talking about combat in general or do you think WX-78 who already has so many different abilities, should also be really good at combat?

 

[Left 4 Sharkb8]

19 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

DST is after all a multiplayer game, with that comes different characters that should do different things, its not fun to see literally every character with a damage modifier of some kind while there could be so many unique abilities in the game that help the team or have great synergy.

Wortox healing while it is quite strong is one really fun ability that helps the team ,same goes with Wigfrid's songs for example. 

What kind of freshness do they provide that current combat characters don't give you and are you talking about combat in general or do you think WX-78 who already has so many different abilities, should also be really good at combat?

 

I didn't specify a damage modifier in particular, and I do feel like there are more creative ways to make a character have some form of combat variety, even down to just making a more unique way of accessing it (The two characters who have bonus damage multipliers on a consistent basis kinda just "have them" for the most part). The electrification circuit feels like a step in the direction that I'm trying to talk about, but it ends up being very situational, so it really only applies to a Bee Queen strat, and maybe quickening the pace that you kill a treeguard by a few seconds I guess. It's cool, but I think it needs a bit more to it. Not by much, but just enough to make it worth using on a more frequent basis, as a lot of WX's circuits have this problem. I don't disagree that different characters should do different things, but it's pretty clear that the WX refresh isn't aiming to give us a character who does something new, but rather many existing things when they so please.

 

I also feel that there would be less of a want for combat abilities if weapons were more diverse. Nothing has been allowed to beat the dark sword for a long time, with the exception of the Alarming Clock, and because everything has to either be on-par with or worse than a dark sword, it kinda makes a lot of it feel uninteresting and stale, as Wanda is the only character who can access a good whip item, and everything else is for the most part just the same weapon with more/less damage and durability, which feels pretty unimaginative... 

 

[NoodlemanNed]

On 4/18/2022 at 5:02 AM, reallychina said:

Everything else he has is an already existing item.

Well every character has access to speed that is similar to a max buffed wx by taming a beefalo. Looking at perks this way in general seems kind of flawed, because almost every perk in the game does something everyone can do. Any character can do damage and walk from point A to point B, yet wanda is still considered to be a strong character because she does those things better. Any character can use a thermal stone or eat food, but wx modules let him do those tasks better than the rest.

I personally enjoy this rework because im actually trying to find new ways to play the game with the modules, rather than focusing exclussively on saving time. Killing frog rains with the electric circuit might already be something that abigail does better, but the unique approach that wx has can still be an enjoyable mechanic.

Now this doesnt mean that every circuit is perfect, i do think some of them need minor tweaks, but what helps make this rework enjoyable to me is being able to try new options just for the sake of trying new things, and maybe that kind of playstyle shift can help other people enjoy it aswell.

[reallychina]

39 minutes ago, NoodlemanNed said:

Well every character has access to speed that is similar to a max buffed wx by taming a beefalo. Looking at perks this way in general seems kind of flawed, because almost every perk in the game does something everyone can do.

No character can have 50% more speed, no matter which items they use. There's only wormwood who can do 20% more speed.

No character except wormwood and wx can go beyond item speed multipliers.

2 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

DST is after all a multiplayer game, with that comes different characters that should do different things, its not fun to see literally every character with a damage modifier of some kind while there could be so many unique abilities in the game that help the team or have great synergy

 

Flat damage multipliers are bad from a game balance perspective, especially when there are more than 1 players in game because they start melting everything including bosses.

 

Situational/specialized damage multipliers would add much more to the game and in this situation to wx, to the point switching modules could be worth it.

 

The sanity module could add a damage buff to shadow creatures only (includes chess pieces and FW). Or it could guarantee an extra nightmare fuel drop per shadow (but take more damage from them)

 

The heat module could add damage to winter mobs (but also take more damage from those mobs)

 

The cold module could add damage to hot mobs (larvae, hounds etc) (but take more damage too)

 

The electric module could add damage to wet targets (but make you take extra damage or get zapped/lose sanity etc)

 

There has to be something that makes modules stand out and change the gameplay, not be item replacements.

[Seero]

7 hours ago, Rhomer said:

I agree but I don't think speed is OP.

I don't think it matters if it is OP or not, we don't have a character that has a very solid speed buff, everyone with (running) speed buffs or better mobility like woodie wortox wurt and wormwood are too conditional/not enough/is not fun to obtain like wormwood

Lets face it, in late game no one uses weremoose to travel around also woodie is just bad in general he got nerfed in the eye of the storm update

[Mike23Ua]

44 minutes ago, Seero said:

I don't think it matters if it is OP or not, we don't have a character that has a very solid speed buff, everyone with (running) speed buffs or better mobility like woodie wortox wurt and wormwood are too conditional/not enough/is not fun to obtain like wormwood

Lets face it, in late game no one uses weremoose to travel around also woodie is just bad in general he got nerfed in the eye of the storm update

The thing about these characters (or at least what Klei staff continuously keeps telling me about these characters..) is that they design them with thoughts of future content updates that will benefit/hinder them already in mind.

Like Woodies Curse inside a Moonstorm, or Abigail not helping Wendy at all against Shadow Monsters that get added to the game.

There are several ways to avoid the Moonstorms, but I assure you Klei didn’t add those without taking into consideration how they would effect Woodie.

[Seero]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

The thing about these characters (or at least what Klei staff continuously keeps telling me about these characters..) is that they design them with thoughts of future content updates that will benefit/hinder them already in mind.

 

Klei told you specifically? You work at Klei? 

[Mike23Ua]

Just now, Seero said:

Klei told you specifically? You work at Klei? 

A Klei Dev told me? Yes,  Do I work at Klei? Obviously No.

But when they aren’t busy with updates and have time to reply here in the forums they share a bit of insight into what they’re doing.

For example: JoeW once said that we as fans can only ever suggest changes & content we would like to see based on how we play the game now/how we can imagine it in the future, MEANWHILE- They already have a rough draft layed out for how THEY know things will eventually be.

(this should actually be common knowledge tbh so it’s no big secret.)