Feedback after 1200 cycle game

[pether]

I just finished by game by reaching the temporal tear. It took me nearly 1200 cycles with lots of cool challenges, struggles, high stress, starvation and a few deaths along the way - mega fun! I started on swamp moonlet to get full DLC experience and avoid patterns I know from vanilla. I feel the game is much more better now and the DLC is a great improvement to the game. But there are several things I want to feedback on, as they seem to need some more attention:

1. Plug Slugs - really nice idea for a creature that connects to the network. But it is so poorly executed... When their diet is only metal ore, one must be really insane to ranch them. In my game I lacked metal ores for even most basic base building and feeding it to the slugs would kill my run. Shame, I really wanted to see them in action... Yes, you can lock wild ones in a room and get some power this way, but it is not their full potential. Please Klei, we made this feedback from day 1 of EA - allow them to eat something more, add some morphs, let us do something more with them!

2. Radiation sources - I finished my tech tree and explored space in my nuclear rocket using only wheezeworts and manual radbolt generators. Whole 1000 cycles using only most basic setups. It doesn't really feel like progress when a few plants can carry your game... And what alternative there is? I could go with research reactor (I still hate this name as it does nothing with research) but it clearly hardcore endgame gimmick - too big, too dangerous, too much overkill when wheezeworts can do it. I feel there should be another application for enriched uranium, something radiation-producing but not so massive.

3. Radbolt batteries - I changed my mind, at first I was thinking they kill unique unstopable aspect of radbolts, but I had quite fun working with them. However, they seem not finished... Unable to rotate or choose radbolt output direction - quite bad. Require floor to build - meh. Can deconstruct floor later - wtf? Consume power even when empty - come on!

4. Radbolt network - I had great fun making network of redirectors and automate some of them to change the path of the bolt. Cool! My only issue is - nothing really encourage you to risk putting the network inside your base - for research you use manual generator placed just next to the research building and nothing else in your base requires radbolts. I'd love to see some risk-reward buildings that you feel that should be placed in a kitchen (btw - where kitchen room?) or rec room and expose your dupes to the radbolts unless you plan it safetly - that would be fun!

5. Stone-age buildings in space-age - I really hate that the only solution to atmosphere containment is a drop of liquid from a building I didn't even need to research - that basic it is. And I hate to see my ancient ladders next to futuristic nuclear rocket. You know this feedback already, I won't do wall of text here, you know the issue... pls fix!

6. Rocket entrance access - I hate that different rockets have different sizes and therefore require different ladder setup to work. Rockets should have some lift for easier access to the entrance that would make things consistent.

7. Rocket autopilots - small base rocket challenge is fun, but it's hard to say it doesn't require your attention once built. I cannot imagine maintaining 10-20 rockets flying to space POIs for mining and I'm sure half of my pilots would starve because I didn't notice some issue in their rocket. Also, best remedy for end-game lag is not to have 20 more duplicants. End-game autopilot module for rockets would be great, maybe unlocked with hydrogen engines tech - at this point we had enough fun with mini-bases, no need to play this mini game over and over again

8. Rocket data station - I love the planetarium is restored, I love that I can obtain data discs using different methods, but it is boring to conduct all space data collection from one rocket on the orbit - it doesn't really encourage you to fly away, you just sit on one space hex until you run out of resources, then come back for a moment and then repeat... It feels like each space hex should have limited amount of data it can collect (or at least - collect without drawbacks)

9. Plant mutations - cool idea! BUT TOO SLOW! I built my farm next to the crashed satelite, but amount of mutations was really small. What is worse - unlocking one mutation doesn't really unlock it - you just have one strange plant, but nothing really to justify making dedicated farm for it with modified light source, temperature etc. There must be a way for easier multiplication of unlocked mutation - either some machine that apply known mutations to the seeds using radbolts, or mutated plants should drop seeds with that mutation. I have no issue of first mutations being rare, but after that there must be a way to speed things up - or there is no use to even plan mutated farms and this cool feature does nothing...

10. Landing on new asteroid - it's hard with really only one or two correct ways of doing it. That's OK, but it feels that later in the game there could be some rocket module that allows for easier lift up from the asteroid even without landing. I'm thinking about some small space vessel that duplicants can use to travel up and down the orbit or some hook on the line that can lift duplicants from the ground

11. Interplanar automation and trading - I had so much fun with interplanar launchers that I will never EVER play vanilla again! Really cool. But I missed some way to transport radbolts between planets - I wanted to build this huge radiation facility on one planet but there was no way other planets could benefit from it. Maybe there could be some Huge Laser building that collects radbolts and shoots lasers across the space to the Reciver that converts that beam back to the radbolts (with some efficiency loss ofc)

12. New duplicant traits - fun and cool, but in the 1000 cycles I saw radiation eater only twice in my printing pod. I get it, it should be rare, but not like this! I want to have some fun with new stuff, but it's the same as with plant mutations - I don't really have a chance... Maybe in a late game there should be some way to improve printing pod rolls?

13. Space exploration - I don't like that every planet is hardcoded and the exploration means only unveiling the spacehexes - and after that you know exactly what POI and biomes are there. Also, there are really only two maps - basic and moonlets and the only difference is starting biome. I'd love to see more variety, maybe more cool POIs on the asteroids (like tree experiment or tear opener), but located in random planets, so you don't know if that tundra will have opener, or tree, or something totally different but also cool. I'd love to see more randomness and more reason to explore newly discovered asteroids

14. Entering the Tear - huge end-game goal. Crown jewell of the ONI jurney. The great finalle. Nothing more dissapointing... Yes, I knew I will lose my duplicants with no other rewards than tick in a box and a message "congrats!" and I was prepared for it. Instead this temporal blue hole turned to be a black hole that ate my game. When I wanted to reload my save to collect logs for the bug tracker - another black hole prevents me from loading the game. Come on! This was supposed to be great step in the game story, instead it is not only punishing instead of rewarding, but also bugged as hell. I checked bug tracker to see if others saw this too - nope, they saw different errors, but mine was unique. It feels you didn't even test your end goal, really bad experience at the end of such a cool run...

TLDR:

• Polish existing things so they could reach their full potential
• More risk-reward encouragement
• More QoL please
• Once the thing is unlocked, allow us to shortcut it later
• DLC is a step in good direction, but require some more steps on that path

[JaxckLl]

1. 100% agree, had the exact same feedback after 5minutes with Plug Slugs as after 300.
2. It's called a "research reactor" because that's what it is, a nuclear reactor that serves primarily as a neutron source. I for one would like to see "nuclear piles" also added that are a cheap source of rads to work as an upgrade over wheezeworts, but does not produce steam/heat like a research reactor.
3. Sure
4. A Tanning Bed seems very in character as a rec building that needs radbolts. Perhaps a super mega wide screen as well, that's like 4x9 tiles or something else dumb.
5. 100% yes. We need some real airlocks that just work, instead of needing liquid locks all over the place.
6. I'd like to see an extendable "rocket ladder" that automatically provides access with the press of a button.
7. Agreed.
8. 100% agree. My initial suggestion for changing space science (which seems to have been half implemented) was that we need to place satellites out in space, each covering a number of hexes. Your space science income then relates directly to how many satellites you have in space, with at least four needed to provide comparable science income to other types of science. This would also create a dynamic & player driven reason for space missions, as you'd need to launch, repair, and replace satellites over time.
9. Agreed. I'd like to see "bio points" as a new science resource. They can be spent to accelerate mutation or attempt extraction of a mutation to produce a limited number of mutant seeds of a known type of plant. In other words, you'd still have to wait to roll the right mutation/plant combo, but you'd have a way to increase the number of rolls and a way to multiply that mutation/plant combo over time.
10. A moon landing module would be lovely!
11. Oooh this is a fun idea! Perhaps you have to build a giant net, something truly enormous like 8x8, to receive radbolts. This would I feel give it a genuine downside, while also acting as a cool & unique mega build.
12. I'd like to see the "Broken Printing Pod" as a world trait, which would result in more random dupes and perhaps even the loss of ability to refuse a drop. The Pod could be repaired, but it would require some rare items found on other asteroids.
13. Meteors/Comets that move across the space grid in a predictable way are an obvious step forward.
14. Ouch

[pether]

9 minutes ago, JaxckLl said:

It's called a "research reactor" because that's what it is

Thanks, I would never know

9 minutes ago, JaxckLl said:

A Tanning Bed seems very in character as a rec building that needs radbolts. Perhaps a super mega wide screen as well, that's like 4x9 tiles or something else dumb.

Thats a cool idea  I had another, but was much worse, not even worth to quote it here

[Unfawkable]

1. I agree that Plug Slugs are very underwhelming right now, but they aren't completely useless. They served great in the early game when I was populating the asteroid, 1600 Watts can keep your entire colony going that early. Very helpful before I setup a footing there, but yes, I would love if they got expanded with morphs so I have a reason to keep them around. Even eating some of the refined metals would be better since those are at least renewable via volcanos.

2. Radiation does feel a bit finicky. On one hand, you can use passive radiation from a lot of things as long as you invest an obscene amount of power and time. On the other hand, if you want to make the matter more efficient and shorter, you either have to get the Crashed satellite trait on a planet making every other radiation source obsolete, or you have to use an enormous dangerous complex late game reactor build with nothing in between. What I'd like to see here is a reduction in radiation for passive radiation sources such as wheezeworts and especially Crashed Satellites, and to implement some middle solution before the research reactor that can pick up the slack that isn't the obnoxious manual generator.

3. Yeah, these are fun, I really enjoyed setting up automation to make them work. Though I wouldn't mind a bit bigger capacity, and the ability to shoot more than 100 at a time.

4. Interesting stuff, but I don't see what else we could get besides more recreational buildings that we don't really need.

5 and 6. I use the Airlock Door mod because I detest liquid locks, give it a shot. As for the ladders, at this point a gantry with a ladder should just be included in the Platform itself, and add a power cost to it. The ladders and gantry should adjust to the size of the rocket, as well as what part of the rocket the dupes need to reach for building purposes. The ladders already do exactly this, they just look ugly.

7. Don't they already have autopilot, it's just twice as slow? Anyway, I wouldn't mind some rocket interior only buildings that improve the rocket stats but take up space, like big computer modules that reduce autopilot speed penalty, or improve the speed overall. 

8. Or a limited amount of data you can collect in an orbit of one planetoid. That way, you are encouraged to actually seek out other planetoids, and can't complete the research tree if you don't get to all of their orbits at least.

9. Not only are they slow and tedious to acquire, they all require 250 rads to grow afterwards, making them also obnoxious to grow. I like your solution to have a way to multiply seeds you already discovered, but I also don't think I'd bother with growing them if the rads requirement isn't removed or at least reduced so I don't need a research reactor to grow them, cause even exposing them to space isn't enough.

10. I'm fine the way it is now actually, every planetoid is increasingly challenging and requires more contingencies. Granted, many approaches are similar, I still find it's implemented properly.

11. Transferring Radbolts by shooting them into space sounds fun, but it would be more elegantly solved (And encourage use of rockets) to add a rocket Radbolt Storage Module. That would have to have a constant power drain like all other Radbolt mechanics of course.

13. While I'm all for randomness to explore more on future playthroughs, a degree of determinism has to stay to keep the game from throwing you into unsolvable situations. I found it enjoyable that each planetoid is designed with a specific purpose in mind, especially when there is so much of them. With the number of Planetoids we have now, increasing the randomness too much runs the risk of homogenizing them instead of offering variety by keeping them unique.

[pether]

20 hours ago, Unfawkable said:

4. Interesting stuff, but I don't see what else we could get besides more recreational buildings that we don't really need.

Maybe some kitchen building? Maybe medicine? Maybe decor item consuming radbolts?

20 hours ago, Unfawkable said:

7. Don't they already have autopilot, it's just twice as slow?

I believe you need a duplicant to launch the rocket. After that - yes, I was able to use trailblazer to land back on my planet and send dupeless rocket to scan deep space. But this still require your attention and you can't build a rocket and forget it exists while it flies to mine the POIs

+1 to all your other comments

[Unfawkable]

31 minutes ago, pether said:

Maybe some kitchen building? Maybe medicine? Maybe decor item consuming radbolts?

I'd like a new unique and dangerous disease that can only be cured by a Radbolt medical building I guess. But that would have to come after the disease system is made to not be a non factor.

[goboking]

I agree with most of what was said in the OP, but I want to focus on the nuclear side of things.  Radiation itself is fine.  It presents a threat we must account for (if playing on higher difficulty settings, at least), but everything aside from research feels rather superfluous. 

• Decontaimination showers are pointless. 
• Wheezeworts and manual generators are more than enough to cover research needs.
• The research reactor requires a lot of care and a lot of space to set up, and the reward is more power at a stage in the game when power is both abundant and renewable.  It's a fine set of tools for late-game players to tinker with, but a simpler, mid-game reactor would make things like the centrifuge and beetas more relevant throughout the game.
• Likewise, plant mutations are a fun idea, but the random nature of mutations and the mutated plants' inability to drop seeds means you'll probably have food solved for long before you get the the desired mutations you want.  A building that consumes rads and normal seeds to replicate an already-analyzed plant mutation would have been handy.
• There was a missed opportunity to integrate the rads system into cooking with a microwave oven.
• There was a missed opportunity to integrate the rads system into medicine with an x-ray machines. 

I understand that Spaced Out! is more or less finished, but I'm hopeful that the devs will give the nuclear side of the expansion some more polish to ensure it's as smoothly integrated into the game as space exploration is.

 

 

 

[pether]

8 hours ago, goboking said:

There was a missed opportunity to integrate the rads system into medicine with an x-ray machines. 

I feel that tapping to this idea would create anothed missed opportunity to improve disease system. And that is at least scope of a content pack, maybe even DLC if Klei had super wild ideas. But yes, overall I'd love to see that as well

100% agreed on the rest

[babba]

I recently discovered the atomic reactor in the Barotrauma game, I had always hoped for such an implementation in ONi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga4Ou1iglZY

Klei can still make it up for me, by someday implementing Plutonium and spreading fires

[goboking]

Here are a few points I missed on my previous feedback on radiation.

• The radiation overlay should indicate dupe radiation levels so we can see at a glance who is okay to work in irradiated areas and who should be allowed to consume rad pills.
• Basic shinebugs producing radiation makes them more of a nuisance than a critter I want in my base.  Every time a dupe runs past one they do the "radiation!" animation.  This isn't a huge disruption to their productivity, but it's enough to make me thinking the decor/light/aesthetics they offer isn't worth keeping them around.  Radiation should have been reserved for the shinebug morphs, in my humble opinion.