Thoughts (and Prayers) on the Wolfgang Refresh

[QuartzBeam]

I'm really liking the refresh so far. It has added a ton of flavor and consistency to a formerly bland character, as well as a few niche, but nonetheless neat perks. However, there's a couple of things that I'd like to see improved:

 

GEMBELL TOSSING

The ability to toss dumbells is one of my favorite things about the refresh. There's just something so very satisfying about tossing a dumbell and watching a bunch of spiders getting collectively bonked on the head.

Unfortunately, the Gembell is never worth using that way. Even though its much more expensive than its rock and gold counterparts, it does not offer a meaningful damage boost in comparison. Anything (except Batilisks) that can be one-shot by the Gembell will also be one-shot by its much cheaper counterparts, while everything else will still (generally) require the same number of hits to kill before and after the Gembell lands on them.

Take the 3 most common AoE-friendly mobs: spiders, bees and frogs. With a decent melee weapon, Mighty Wolfgang needs only 1 hit to kill them. Dropping your precious, expensive Gembell on them will not change that, but merely waste durability.

I'd like to see a Gembell buff that lets it deals 100 (or more) damage, allowing it to one-shot small groups of spiders, frogs, bees, etc. (This could be achieved simply by making Dumbells get the 2x Mighty modifier when thrown.) The low durability and slowness of the Gembell, combined with the need to manually pick it up after each toss, would no doubt offset the high AoE damage and it would spice up Wolfgang's rather plain combat mechanics by giving him a unique and interesting "tactical nuke" weapon.

 

NON-COMBAT UTILITY

I'd like to see some more non-combat uses for Wolfgang's strength. Heavy object carrying and improved rowing are great, but they're also fairly niche and might not pop up that much in day-to-day gameplay. Some suggestions:

• In keeping with the nautical theme, why not make him faster at raising anchors and raising Masts/Winged Sails?
• Give him some efficiency bonus when chopping, mining and hammering stuff, perhaps at the cost of expending more durability. Wes does the opposite cause he's too weak and Wanda has weaker hammering cause she's so frail and old, so it stands to reason that Mighty Wolfgang would be able to put more strength behind his swings.

 

SPEED

Speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed!!!

Nah, I don't really care about the speed boost.

[Gashzer]

Don't think i like the faster chopping and mining speed idea, wolfgang would be too much of a generalist character then. There would be no reason to play maxwell or woodie anymore.

People forget how insane 2x damage is as a perk by itself, go from wolfgang soloing dfly back to a normal character you feel the loss of damage alot!

It plus the heavy lifting and dumbell throws (which i also love) for easily aggroing koalafants + killing crows for jet feathers allowing you to make map scrolls is enough team support for wolfgang when team support abilities aren't really his focus. 

The gembell doing 100 damage when thrown is a great idea tho. Definitely would be balanced for the reasons you stated as well.

[QuartzBeam]

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

Don't think i like the faster chopping and mining speed idea, wolfgang would be too much of a generalist character then. There would be no reason to play maxwell or woodie anymore.

To be honest, I'm not head over heels with it either. But I still wish there was a little something more outside of combat, even if it's not a gamechanger.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

There would be no reason to play maxwell or woodie anymore.

why would you play maxwell if woodie exist? why would you play woodie if bearger exists?

 

3 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

for easily aggroing koalafants + killing crows for jet feathers

very niche or useless if you ask me

 

4 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

The gembell doing 100 damage when thrown is a great idea tho

gembell deals 100 already, right? hambat damage x2 or im missing something?

[QuartzBeam]

Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

gembell deals 100 already, right? hambat damage x2 or im missing something?

The 2x multiplier does not apply when tossing the dumbells/gembells.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 minutes ago, QuartzBeam said:

The 2x multiplier does not apply when tossing the dumbells/gembells.

that sucks and also sucks that you are only allowed to throw it when mighty. A mixed weapon will be so fun

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

why would you play maxwell if woodie exist? why would you play woodie if bearger exists?

Bearger takes a year to spawn, you could have already farmed a metric ton of logs with maxwell/woodie and switched to wolfgang/wanda with the celestial portal by then.

Therefore bearger is useless for when you need logs the most which is the early game.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Bearger takes a year to spawn, you could have already farmed a metric ton of logs with maxwell/woodie and switched to wolfgang/wanda with the celestial portal by then.

Therefore bearger is useless for when you need logs the most which is the early game.

ok for bearger but what about Maxwell vs woodie? and i forgot to add warly

or Wendy vs wigfrid vs Wolfgang vs wanda? 4 combat characters and still bring different things and combiantion of perks even, if at the end, will be little difference while killing things

[Cloakingsumo198]

6 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

ok for bearger but what about Maxwell vs woodie? and i forgot to add warly

or Wendy vs wigfrid vs Wolfgang vs wanda? 4 combat characters and still bring different things and combiantion of perks even, if at the end, will be little difference while killing things

I don't understand that characters sharing traits but performing them differently is inherently bad as long as each character is viable and has their own twist that matches that personality

Woodie literally goes sicko mode on trees with his infinite axe and werebeaver form, he has other forms to and has more hp than maxwell

Maxwell has half of woodies hp, but a constant sanity boost, and the ability to both read and summon long lasting automatic harvesters 

These guys share the gatherer role but both play COMPLETELY DIFFERENT

If Wolfgang wanted to gather faster he would first have to be in mighty form and then he would still have to use up resources to make his tools that will just break down faster he saves time NOT resources

[W0l0l0]

29 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Don't think i like the faster chopping and mining speed idea, wolfgang would be too much of a generalist character then. There would be no reason to play maxwell or woodie anymore.

He wouldn't make them totally redundant, but I know exactly what you're getting at. Adding straight mining/chopping boosts would be very bland and straightforward. The best thing I can think of is more craftables (for all characters) that also have speed penalties (that Wolfgang would naturally be able to offset with his mightyness), but with more powerful harvesting potential. The only problem is that you can bypass any head and hand slot debuffs by putting it in your inventory (perhaps it could slow even in then inventory, or like a statue, can only be held in hand?).

Perhaps the throwing ability can be expanded upon to fell multiple trees, deal ranged area of effect damage, and mass cut grass or something.

In any case, I strongly feel Wolfgang needs team supporting (or something that isn't just combat based) abilities.

[Gashzer]

5 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

ok for bearger but what about Maxwell vs woodie? and i forgot to add warly

or Wendy vs wigfrid vs Wolfgang vs wanda? 4 combat characters and still bring different things and combiantion of perks even, if at the end, will be little difference while killing things

Maxwell still needs a rework so he can be forgiven for being outshined by woodie atm. Wurt is a fantastic gatherer as well, tho she uses logs for merm houses as fast as she gets them. Warly's honey spice, while great for mid game team boost for killing toadstool and late game marble scrub farming, feels too grindy or out of the way to get early game in my opinion.

Wendy is good to bring up, she doesn't have any gatherer utility and is just a damage dealer character with no real team support abilities outside of combat and everyone loves her. Wolfgang doesn't need anymore utility perks. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

9 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

he saves time NOT resources

the whole point of wolfgang. For that he had x3 hunger drain

it makes the gathering perk different from the others

[Cloakingsumo198]

11 minutes ago, W0l0l0 said:

He wouldn't make them totally redundant, but I know exactly what you're getting at. Adding straight mining/chopping boosts would be very bland and straightforward. The best thing I can think of is more craftables (for all characters) that also have speed penalties (that Wolfgang would naturally be able to offset with his mightyness), but with more powerful harvesting potential. The only problem is that you can bypass any head and hand slot debuffs by putting it in your inventory.

Perhaps the throwing ability can be expanded upon to fell multiple trees, deal ranged area of effect damage, and mass cut grass or something.

In any case, I strongly feel Wolfgang needs team supporting (or something that isn't just combat based) abilities.

I dunno man people will be like it ain't thematic it's gotta match the strongman person, i think swinging so hard  that you go faster and your tools break faster fits him at least in some sense

Wolfgang has always been seen as wasteful but he also works hard look at those muscles so it could work around the fact that he keeps breaking stuff when going full power on things.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

Wolfgang doesn't need anymore utility perks.

i dont share this opinion since right now the only thing that makes you want to be at ~74 mightiness the whole time is hound waves or using piggyback without penalty

[Cloakingsumo198]

Doesn't Wendy have the sistern, and she used to be able to make a cheeky "sanity station" but if i remember they took that out and Wendy is also technically a farmer a monster farmer.

Plus Wendy is extremely popular cause she has a high tech ceiling when mixing Abigail with a beefalo and is also really beginner friendly cause Abby is so versatile

Utility is important because it's what you use and abuse when combat is over.  Some characters have more utility use some have more combat focus

Wolfgang used to be both, he used to be both damnit it ain't fair...... It ain't fair...

 

 

So at least add a lil somethin

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Doesn't Wendy have the sistern, and she used to be able to make a cheeky "sanity station" but if i remember they took that out and Wendy is also technically a farmer a monster farmer.

Sistern isn't that good, its main use is to bring abigail back to full max hp quicker if she dies, the sanity buff to team isn't great.

Wolfgang can carry giant crops faster off farmplots now as his counter niche team utility lol.

Wolfgang can also farm spiders almost as well as wendy can now. He one hits them consistently now. So you can't say that combat perks are utility perks like chopping trees or farming crops. Wendy has no real utility same as wolfgang.

[Cloakingsumo198]

8 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Sistern isn't that good, its main use is to bring abigail back to full max hp quicker if she dies, the sanity buff to team isn't great.

Wolfgang can carry giant crops faster off farmplots now as his counter niche team utility lol.

Wolfgang can also farm spiders almost as well as wendy can now. He one hits them consistently now. So you can't say that combat perks are utility perks like chopping trees or farming crops. Wendy has no real utility same as wolfgang.

Yeah but that's cause Wendy is meant to be weak alone all her specialist abilities is in her dead sister make her punch a tree or something.  Wolfgang is suppose to be swole his muscles and might are meant to signify something so make it feel like he is actually strong aside from something you'll hardly ever be doing (hauling) and just combat. If his wimp form was the weakest character in the game it would be an incentive for wolfgangs to actually focus on keeping his muscle as far from being low as possible or suffer the consequences and people would be less inclined to call him op.  Wolfgang doesn't play like the others he uses more but is capable of more and i wish they follow that philosophy

[HowlVoid]

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Wolfgang can also farm spiders almost as well as wendy can now. He one hits them consistently now. 

Highly, highly, HIGHLY doubt that. 

Wendy can literally clear like 30 spiders at a time and stunlocks them. Wolfgang still has to kite.

[HowlVoid]

In order to differentiate Wolfgang a bit more from the proficient resource gatherers I think it should be more chop/mining per hit rather than a faster speed. (Along with the increased durability loss per hit)

[QuartzBeam]

I've been thinking about it and having Mighty form increase both chop/mine/hammer efficiency and durability loss would have the side-effect of making Mighty Form non-ideal for tasks like mining Stone Fruits and hammering Giant Crops. (As the added efficiency would go to waste, while the extra durability loss would still take effect.)

 

[Gashzer]

56 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Highly, highly, HIGHLY doubt that. 

Wendy can literally clear like 30 spiders at a time and stunlocks them. Wolfgang still has to kite.

Barely needs to kite with hambat, plus wolfgang vastly superior nightmare fuel farming compared to wendy means hes overall alot better for veteran or somewhat experienced players for farming mobs. Wendy still far better for noobies but with the rework even noobies can somewhat maintain mightyness. Atleast thats my experience playing with them so far lol

8 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

In order to differentiate Wolfgang a bit more from the proficient resource gatherers I think it should be more chop/mining per hit rather than a faster speed. (Along with the increased durability loss per hit)

Nah wolfgang doesn't need that, cheap 2x damage which can be aquired early is a huge buff that sets wolfgang apart. The weather resistance, piggyback/marble suit penality removal, dumbell toss for aggroing, heavy lifting an rowing speed boost when mighty are nice incentives to stay mighty which also differentiate wolfgang from other characters. Wolfgang has always been and still is a simple character while still being highly effective at what he does, fighting. Compared to others like wanda,wurt and warly who are alot more complicated. Let him stay simple without too many perks

[Ohan]

15 minutes ago, QuartzBeam said:

I've been thinking about it and having Mighty form increase both chop/mine/hammer efficiency and durability loss would have the side-effect of making Mighty Form non-ideal for tasks like mining Stone Fruits and hammering Giant Crops. (As the added efficiency would go to waste, while the extra durability loss would still take effect.)

Good point. i wonder if this could be resolved somehow? like not triggering the extra durability drain on objects that only require 1 bonk/hit. 

20 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Wolfgang has always been and still is a simple character while still being highly effective at what he does, fighting. Compared to others like wanda,wurt and warly who are alot more complicated. Let him stay simple without too many perks

I can see where ur coming from but i also I think this style of gathering perk is just so perfect and obvious for wolfgang, on the same level as him carrying heavy objects faster. It doesnt strike me as complicating his character, rather following through on his premise of being a big strong dude. 

At this point im just really curious to see what klei will do. 

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, QuartzBeam said:

I've been thinking about it and having Mighty form increase both chop/mine/hammer efficiency and durability loss would have the side-effect of making Mighty Form non-ideal for tasks like mining Stone Fruits and hammering Giant Crops. (As the added efficiency would go to waste, while the extra durability loss would still take effect.)

 

Good thing you can just drop out of Mighty ...  Choices like this are actually good to have in game.

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, QuartzBeam said:

I've been thinking about it and having Mighty form increase both chop/mine/hammer efficiency and durability loss would have the side-effect of making Mighty Form non-ideal for tasks like mining Stone Fruits and hammering Giant Crops. (As the added efficiency would go to waste, while the extra durability loss would still take effect.)

 

Wouldn't you just do those things in normal mode? I mean, there really isn't a reason to be mighty except for boss battles anyways.

[QuartzBeam]

8 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Wouldn't you just do those things in normal mode? I mean, there really isn't a reason to be mighty except for boss battles anyways.

 

13 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Good thing you can just drop out of Mighty ...  Choices like this are actually good to have in game.

 

I mean, yeah, but given that one of mighty form's few non-combat applications is carrying giant crops (which stops Might drain), it would be weird to have to wait before you can break the crops open.