The rework is pretty good actually

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 hours ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

So does tank and spank sound more enjoyable than armourless kiting?

why that many users said the same? 

you cant kite at default speed or what? i never tank in this game and i dont see why i would start doing it as wolfgang

[Cloakingsumo198]

2 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

why that many users said the same? 

you cant kite at default speed or what? i never tank in this game and i dont see why i would start doing it as wolfgang

Many people can easily kite one on one but what if you are are fighting multiple enemies all of a sudden a little bit of extra speed is super helpful, you can still get a speed boost by using a cane or making roads or taking advantage of premade roads but the answer is still the same adding speed to your character assists in combat. Whether you fight many weak opponents or one of the bosses.  I don't know why people are arguing if whether speed is pro or noob it's extremely useful in all scenarios in and out of combat and was for more useful and interesting than moving normal speed in heavy gear which Wolfgang basically already did.

People always think of just soloing bosses but what about rushing ruins and being in the middle of all those clockworks or fighting a spider queen /varg that is wrecking havoc cause it's already got all it's minions to go. Being stunlocked is the most likely way any person on their own will die when fighting and it just takes being caught out of line when alone.

All I'm saying is his old speed boost already did "carrying heavy stuff at normal speed" and still had way more uses than whatever they are giving him now so if they wanna remove his speed at least compensate by giving him more strength outside of combat more niches more cool things to do.

[blacknight7890]

I'm suprised that out of all the controversial changes, the lack of speed is what cause the most arguments. Not the dumbells taking a while, or the gym being a minigame, or tying might loss to the hunger bar, or the existence of the might bar, or even the damage and temp vulnerability that wimpy has.

No, it's being able to walk faster, that's what pisses people off most. It's almost funny how such a tiny off hand change sparks the most arguments.

[Cloakingsumo198]

25 minutes ago, blacknight7890 said:

I'm suprised that out of all the controversial changes, the lack of speed is what cause the most arguments. Not the dumbells taking a while, or the gym being a minigame, or tying might loss to the hunger bar, or the existence of the might bar, or even the damage and temp vulnerability that wimpy has.

No, it's being able to walk faster, that's what pisses people off most. It's almost funny how such a tiny off hand change sparks the most arguments.

I'm pretty sure it's cause most people know the dumbbells and gym mini game are here to stay they are just gonna get their numbers tweaked and be refined.  His core gameplay loop on the other hand has been like taking a square and ramming it into a triangle hole til it broke enough to fit, he lost part of himself for this cheap off brand rip off of traits. Many people have already gave good suggestions to help make building and maintaining his meter less tedious/boring but the speed is still unclear or if he will get more traits to fit being just (BUILT DIFFERENT) I mean a strong man

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 hours ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Many people can easily kite one on one but what if you are are fighting multiple enemies all of a sudden a little bit of extra speed is super helpful, you can still get a speed boost by using a cane or making roads or taking advantage of premade roads but the answer is still the same adding speed to your character assists in combat. Whether you fight many weak opponents or one of the bosses.  I don't know why people are arguing if whether speed is pro or noob it's extremely useful in all scenarios in and out of combat and was for more useful and interesting than moving normal speed in heavy gear which Wolfgang basically already did.

People always think of just soloing bosses but what about rushing ruins and being in the middle of all those clockworks or fighting a spider queen /varg that is wrecking havoc cause it's already got all it's minions to go. Being stunlocked is the most likely way any person on their own will die when fighting and it just takes being caught out of line when alone.

All I'm saying is his old speed boost already did "carrying heavy stuff at normal speed" and still had way more uses than whatever they are giving him now so if they wanna remove his speed at least compensate by giving him more strength outside of combat more niches more cool things to do.

dude if the excuse to add speed to wolfgang is "multiple enemies"... he has x2 damage, multiple enemies are a joke with him

cleaning the ruins you say? you clean them faster with your x2 damage

monkeys? one shotted

hounds? one shotted

do you know that all the situations you mentioned happen to wilsons plsyers too, right? and they dont ask for a speed boost

as i said, bring back speed to wolfgang because utility outside of combad = good

bring back speed because combat = borikg, flat, cheap and only makes fights easier with a character tha already has x2 damage and 200 hp

 

[Cloakingsumo198]

7 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

dude if the excuse to add speed to wolfgang is "multiple enemies"... he has x2 damage, multiple enemies are a joke with him

cleaning the ruins you say? you clean them faster with your x2 damage

monkeys? one shotted

hounds? one shotted

do you know that all the situations you mentioned happen to wilsons plsyers too, right? and they dont ask for a speed boost

as i said, bring back speed to wolfgang because utility outside of combad = good

bring back speed because combat = borikg, flat, cheap and only makes fights easier with a character tha already has x2 damage and 200 hp

 

I brought up how speed is extremely useful in these scenarios because people try to act like his loss of speed wasn't a big deal and being able to carry heavy objects better (which he could already do) is enough to justify not giving him more niche things to do with mighty form and not continuing to tweak him. Some people were even trying to say that speed is useless when you can just make armor when armor doesn't compare to having a speed boost at hand and I brought up those examples to show just how much better having some speed is. Wolfgang needs more compensation for his speed loss since he isn't getting it back.

 

I'm sure many people find other characters extremely boring but they all have their purpose and they all serve a play style as of right now. Wolf just got dumped on for all his og players and people who don't care about him aren't gonna care about any of these changes

[ArubaroBeefalo]

9 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

try to act like his loss of speed wasn't a big

it is because speed is the most powerful stat and he gets it pretty easy. For that we wanna something that compensates it in terms of utility and fun rather than "give him his flat and boring stat back instead of think something cooler"

[Cloakingsumo198]

5 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

it is because speed is the most powerful stat and he gets it pretty easy. For that we wanna something that compensates it in terms of utility and fun rather than "give him his flat and boring stat back instead of think something cooler"

And that's what people are trying to achieve because people keep arguing that wolf doesn't need more niches cause he just needed nerfs only

"He already had this, adding this would make this character irrelevant, it doesn't fit his character." 

Wolf is boring flat out if he was boring before he is way more boring now i dunno how people can argue his changes as being fun when they are arguable worse than before

and they aren't even different than how he used to play he's still the same wolf just worse why would people gravitate to this new wolf who doesn't really switch things up from his previous incarnation. It doesn't make sense

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

And that's what people are trying to achieve because people keep arguing that wolf doesn't need more niches cause he just needed nerfs only

"He already had this, adding this would make this character irrelevant, it doesn't fit his character." 

Wolf is boring flat out if he was boring before he is way more boring now i dunno how people can argue his changes as being fun when they are arguable worse than before

ok

[Ohan]

9 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

he was boring before he is way more boring now i dunno how people can argue his changes as being fun when they are arguable worse than before

I think hes way more interesting now because he simply has more stuff to do, build gyms and statues, collecting dumbbell materials and rushing T1 magic, maintaining might meter so u dont get caught off guard, incentive to grow marble, seeking out early slurper belt for working out, the rythm game, throwing dumbell at goats etc. 

This just needs to be expanded upon by giving more mighty utility like (again) gathering and better dumbell throwing. And a use for potato sacks. Also a showmanship aspect to his gym by raising group sanity or something would be neat.

He feels more like the rest of the cast now and lives up to his title ‘Strongman’ instead of just being a bundle of combat stats with a hungry stomach. 

I can understand how that could sound strange to someone who prefers old wolf though. 

I think its comparable to wormwood healing situation, theres probably ppl who think its boring and tedious that u cant heal with food but thats exactly what attracts other people to him because its fun to collect those alternative materials even though it takes longer and is less practical than making healing food. 

[Cloakingsumo198]

I can see these changes as being fun if they aren't his primary focus having more utility use with his mighty mirrors the utility he had from speed so that's a good idea so picking grass better or using tools better but breaking them faster.  But not being able to gain mighty at all enless you lift this dumbbell seems kinda dumb his might level should extend to all the actions wolf does since wolf has always been focused on himself so allowing other things to increase his might level like fighting/chopping/mining or at least have them slow his might loss would fit in with him aswell

Yet people who argue that wolf deserved all his nerfs, don't argue he needs more niches/ small details to flesh him out probably cause they never bothered with him prior to this release.

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

12 hours ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

What even is this type of argument style

Great point.

12 hours ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

You don't seem to understand that not everyone needs to make the game challenging and not everyone sees it as easy if it was I'm sure more people would be willing to join mid winter or spring but that isn't the case. Same thing with character popularity people on the forums are going crazy cause the rework is a hot topic but looking at character picks Wolfgang is pretty low.

Also fuel weaver used to have some ways to not need special equipment like the lazy explorer or you could use sanity affecting items instead of the purple necklace hell even just having an extra player with you can help alot.

Even pro players will use gear to make combat easier just because they know how to play doesn't mean they have to cripple themselves just to have fun that's masochistic fun at best or dumb at worst.

And the last part why even include that in your argument. If you don't care how the game changes than don't interact in the forums

Removing a 25% speed boost that you can easily add back with console commands is not masochism. You don’t seem to understand that DST is the “unpromising survival game” and therefore should be challenging. If people don’t like that then they can mod or find a different game. I am arguing this point because I believe it stays inline with the intent the developers have with the game. And if the game is going in a different direction, so be it.

Also ofc I care how the game changes, because I play the game. I’m saying at the end of my last post it that this is just a game and my life won’t be ruined if I don’t feel like playing it.

also I’m not gonna respond again because it’s obvious we just have different opinions, which is fine. Have a good day.

[Dragonboooorn]

59 minutes ago, EATZYOWAFFLEZ said:

“unpromising survival game”

Aha..Ha hah ahahah!!! Good one! 

for real though, DST lost its aspect as "uncompromising" game long time ago. I literally have no idea how you can struggle surviving; items are buffed, characters are insanely buffed, take Wendy for example

[blacknight7890]

2 hours ago, Dragonboooorn said:

I literally have no idea how you can struggle surviving; items are buffed, characters are insanely buffed, take Wendy for example

They said Wendy, I got bingo!

[MarkBlocos]

20 hours ago, blacknight7890 said:

I'm sorry man, but ever since the reworks were first announced, the writing was on the wall. Wolf's nerf was foretold from the start, he has always made other characters Inferior by simply existing, It makes sense that klei would try to reign him in. It was never going to be pretty, but a change had to happen.

You should be thankful that they not only kept the x2 damage, but made it stay x2 when he's mighty. He also can stay like that for a whole day now, so you need less food to rush bosses. The only issue would be raid bosses, but a gembell or a gym set off to the side will easily fix that. Wolfgang is still the beast he has always been, you just need to keep a Cane handy like every other character.

it had to happen? why? I play a lot of different characters cause they offer things wolfgang doesnt. If you think the game is only killing bosses than we just play differently, but im fine with that, unlike people who dont like others playing wolfgang cause somehow hurts their own pride in a PvE game. Plus, klei actually said they werent going to nerf anyone so...

[sudoku]

On 12/13/2021 at 4:20 AM, blacknight7890 said:

I'm suprised that out of all the controversial changes, the lack of speed is what cause the most arguments. Not the dumbells taking a while, or the gym being a minigame, or tying might loss to the hunger bar, or the existence of the might bar, or even the damage and temp vulnerability that wimpy has.

No, it's being able to walk faster, that's what pisses people off most. It's almost funny how such a tiny off hand change sparks the most arguments.

This is the real issue ive been trying to champion for.

The speed boost is just the easiest to center in on, but the true issue with the rework is the decision to supplement gameplay with a minigame. If Wolfgang had interesting gameplay that was fun i dont think people would mind the speed being gone. 

This games gameplay centers on gathering/building/fighting, and most character playstyles focuses on giving up a stat to gain a skill or perk.  Beyond setting up a gym for the first time, the minigame ingores all of this.

Itd be like if instead of Walter having to collect monster meat to transform Woby, he instead played a minigame. Or instead of the huge sanity loss on hit to compensate for his lack of sanity drain, he played a minigame and just recieved the perk with no downside or game decisions.

Itd be like if Wigfrid played a minigame for whichever song she wanted to sing before a fight and she didnt need to build her meter by actually fighting.

Itd be like if Willow played a minigame to use Bernie instead of requiring her to be at low sanity.

Or WX not needing to manually fight clockworks and collect gears and instead played a minigame.

 

The true problem is Wolfgangs perk of double damage comes with no actual means of gameplay and has in fact less gameplay than the original where you needed to constantly trade food for your mightynesss. Sure some may argue that food was easy to come by but you still had to collect it and then cook it which posed the gameplay questions of: what meal do i want to cook, what ingredients do i need, how many do i need to make? 

The minigame provides no such terms of thinking beyond the arbitraryness of the minigame itself.

 

 

[Cloakingsumo198]

13 minutes ago, sudoku said:

The true problem is Wolfgangs perk of double damage comes with no actual means of gameplay and has in fact less gameplay than the original where you needed to constantly trade food for your mightynesss. Sure some may argue that food was easy to come by but you still had to collect it and then cook it which posed the gameplay questions of: what meal do i want to cook, what ingredients do i need, how many do i need to make? 

This I had more fun looking for places with tons of fresh meat to earn, or specifically looking for desert/mushroom biomes for easy veggies. Even just finding a spot with lots of spiders or basic berry bushes was a huge boon.  Berries are easy top off but spoiled fast and didn't fill, spiders gave useful items and oh so useful monster meat to make werepigs.

Even finding beefalo herds or hound mounds felt good cause they were another food source to cull.

Koalaphants a great early source to reach mighty quicky but didn't really last long to sustain it.

Hell even finding hound forts or tall bird forts was like a piece of heaven on the constant.

[Toroic]

On 12/13/2021 at 1:45 AM, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Many people can easily kite one on one but what if you are are fighting multiple enemies all of a sudden a little bit of extra speed is super helpful, you can still get a speed boost by using a cane or making roads or taking advantage of premade roads but the answer is still the same adding speed to your character assists in combat. Whether you fight many weak opponents or one of the bosses.  I don't know why people are arguing if whether speed is pro or noob it's extremely useful in all scenarios in and out of combat and was for more useful and interesting than moving normal speed in heavy gear which Wolfgang basically already did.

People always think of just soloing bosses but what about rushing ruins and being in the middle of all those clockworks or fighting a spider queen /varg that is wrecking havoc cause it's already got all it's minions to go. Being stunlocked is the most likely way any person on their own will die when fighting and it just takes being caught out of line when alone.

All I'm saying is his old speed boost already did "carrying heavy stuff at normal speed" and still had way more uses than whatever they are giving him now so if they wanna remove his speed at least compensate by giving him more strength outside of combat more niches more cool things to do.

His old speed boost did not do “carrying heavy stuff at normal speed”

Being mighty and carrying statues was a trivial change in movespeed as you were still incredibly slow, now it’s 60% normal speed compared to everyone else carrying at half that speed.

Design wise, there’s a huge difference between staying at 1x speed in a log suit or marble, or being at 95% speed in marble and 30% faster in a log suit.

The first case encourages marble use, the second one discourages it because 30% more speed means easier dodging and typically more hits per dodge.  People didn’t use marble for wolf before, they will now.

[Cloakingsumo198]

3 hours ago, Toros said:

His old speed boost did not do “carrying heavy stuff at normal speed”

Being mighty and carrying statues was a trivial change in movespeed as you were still incredibly slow, now it’s 60% normal speed compared to everyone else carrying at half that speed.

Design wise, there’s a huge difference between staying at 1x speed in a log suit or marble, or being at 95% speed in marble and 30% faster in a log suit.

The first case encourages marble use, the second one discourages it because 30% more speed means easier dodging and typically more hits per dodge.  People didn’t use marble for wolf before, they will now.

I bring it up because the change is hardly different, everyone tries to pass it off as some never before seen NEW ability when in practice it basically felt the same way how is this supposed to attract new people to wolfgang.  Yes carrying heavy objects on your back is faster but the amount of times that occurs just doesn't really come into play and if you wanted to do these things faster a beefalo is still way better in every regard for transporting marble pieces.

 

The design is different but that doesn't mean it's better or more interesting

[Monkey Cups]

On 12/13/2021 at 6:37 AM, ArubaroBeefalo said:

do you know that all the situations you mentioned happen to wilsons plsyers too, right? and they dont ask for a speed boos

Us Wilson mains are good enough at the game to not need one.

[blacknight7890]

So how about that hotfix? Faster work seems cool