Temportal Tear (spoilers) (prestige system?)

[Astrologic]

So I decided to open the temporal tear.  First, I had to open it, which meant colonizing a planet to generate radbolts to launch a beam to open the tear.
Yeah so, the planet was destroyed by meteors.  Thanks?
I then sent my rocket with the dupe inside to the tear.  The rocket blows up, the dupe is deleted, and....
That's it?
I lost a planet, a dupe, and a rocket.  I gained NOTHING.  What a waste of time!
How horribly disappointing!
I'm honestly bummed.  What was the purpose of it all?

Can we get some kind of reward for this daunting task, rather than just punishments?
Can we replace the laser building with a new experiment 52B that gives something unique? 
Or some kind of prestige mechanic where you start a new colony in a new galaxy with bonuses?  That is kind of what the tear eludes to.
Bonuses could look like:
-10% air consumption for all dupes,
-10% construction / digging time.
-10% calories consumed,
-10% construction materials used/refunded.   
+10% energy produced,

Or maybe even 1%, I don't care.  each time you enter the tear, you get a point to spend on a bonus at the cost of starting from scratch, maybe with the dupe / dupes you sent through the tear.
Although, I do think you should only start with one dupe.  Maybe the last one who piloted the rocket, otherwise it's just too easy.  Starting with only 1 dupe instead of 3 might help balance out the fact it has high attributes, or maybe the attributes can be reset (maybe with +1 added to each, so you can progressively build up a super dupe)

I didn't open the tear until nearly cycle 3,000.  I decided I'd build myself a fully sustainable base first, colonize the other planets as best I could, get all the rare materials, upgrade for efficiency, and then finally after everything was done, open the tear and experience... nothing.
I have nowhere to go from here.
Please Klei....I want to have perks and stuff that incentivize me to build better systems, more efficient systems, that help highlight different priorities at different stages.  I don't want to just restart and do the exact same thing on a different seed.
And yeah, I get it, I can just start again and change the difficulty, but that's not earned and not fun at all, I could have done that without opening the tear.

Honestly, anything is better than nothing, but at the moment, we're getting less than nothing. 
Seriously, I lost a planet and everything I built on it, a rocket which is now useless debris on the water world, and a fairly decent dupe with high attributes.
All so I could watch a short cinematic?  Come on.

[NeoDeusMachina]

Condragulations!

We get the steam achievement, a cute little video, and the personal satisfaction and feeling of fulfillment for managing to pull it off.

I don't think ONI's hum... what are they called... colony imperatives (something like that anyway) were ever meant to reward the player beyond the mere achievements themselves. I have no idea if Klei plans on implementing anything beyond what we already have in terms of "rewards", but I personally don't really mind it. I have never felt like ONI was meant to have an "end" anyway, it is very much a sandbox game.

Maybe we'll get to see what's on the other side in ONI 2? Who knows

[Astrologic]

I didn't get anything, cause I already had that from before the DLC.  >.>
I literally got nothing.

(except punished for investing my time/energy into doing the tear bs)

[Dovahkick]

Jeez pal, easy with the attitude!

First, the Temporal Tear is meant to be an achievement, so you should pretty much get the satisfaction of having completed something. Now that you've done this achievement, you know what it does. The fact that the duplicant you send into the TT doesn't come back (or maybe comes back after a long amount of cycles, I don't know) is what I believe to be part of ONI's future lore. Although I would have wished to know more about the lore of the game after reaching this TT, and by that I do agree that only having a small animation along a few lines of lore, that could have been improved further by say, a short cutscene with what's on the other side of the TT as some kind of teaser maybe (I could already imagine a cutscene where the dupe you sent into the TT, finally ends up into the constant from Don't Starve).

Getting a reward when a duplicant gets to the TT is another thing. The reward for building a large statue with tons of materials for "Home Sweet Home" is not only the fact that you got the achievement for it, but also to have your own proof of achievement in your colony, it's like a big golden trophy that you put on one of your counters...and that's it, yet I find it to be as good as it is. Reaching the TT is to me much more difficult than "Home Sweet Home" because you need to reach the asteroid that has the Tear Opener (building a rocket efficient enough), fuel the TO with radbolts, escape the now doomed asteroid, then reach the TT. So if there were a reward for reaching the TT, to me it would be to add a new difficulty setting that (like you mentioned) lets you start with one single duplicant...and maybe make it so that the printing pod requires a few more cycles to print (like 10 cycles instead of 3).

When you achieve something that you deemed difficult, you sometimes wish for something more challenging, and challenges are what makes a game good. It's not by making things easier in the snap of a finger that you'll find fun, else you'll quickly get bored.

[Astrologic]

Sorry I didn't perceive any attitude with my post?
Was it cause I used "bs"?  Anyway, as much as I agree with the whole statue being a waste of resources and such, you can deconstruct it and get it all back.
But, at least it's a little fun with how you can modify it and such.
The temporal tear has no fun customizations or anything, no trophies, not that a trophy does anything for anyone.
Once you have that trophy, it's value is gone, but the temporal tear should always have value.

I think unlocking a new difficulty is kind of silly, because once you do it, the value once again is gone.
Every time you play, you should have a reason to unlock the tear and enter inside.
I do kind of feel like if I accept a dupe from the printing pod and then immediately send them to the tear, that's no good either.  I should have some incentive to send my absolute best dupe into the tear.
The dupe I'm most proud of, not some throw-away.
But, since the tear is deleting dupes, that doesn't currently make any sense.

I've never cared to get into the lore, it just doesn't interest me.  I'd rather make my own lore as I imagine it.
As far as I'm concerned, my dupes are space prisoners, sent to their planetoid as punishment for.. being annoying, and the whole game is an escape from that prison, though they can never escape from being annoying.

The problem is, if the temporal tear loses it's value forever once you visit it, there's no replayability without feeling you've wasted your time.
I don't understand this imaginary sense of satisfaction people keep mentioning.  I just got the sense that I wasted my time.
Nothing to show for it, and even if there was some trophy or something, oni is a single player game, who am I going to impress with a trophy that only I can see? >.>

I'd rather have something that changes or affects the way I play and enjoy the game.  "Enjoy" the game, not "Stress out about" the game.
Raising the difficulty for beating the temporal tear would feel like another punishment, and we are already punished 3 times.
I feel like if the difficulty were to be raised, we should be compensated for our investment.
compensated for the planet we lost, compensated for the dupe we lost, compensated for the rocket, compensated for the rise in difficulty.

Otherwise, we're just playing to punish ourselves. Playing to suffer.
I personally prefer the "no sweat" option because I like to relax while I play, read the news while I'm waiting for dupes to dig out a hole somewhere.
I don't really want to be on the edge of my seat for 20 hours as I'm on "follow cam" making sure the chlorine nisbet releases into my base doesn't contain pinworms that'll give all my dupes the "unbearably itchy" trait that'll result in total colon-y collapse.

Well, that's my argument against the tear rising the difficulty.  4 punishments and no reward?  That's such a drag.
 

[KonfigSys]

I think "no mans sky" did implement the end game pretty well.

When you achieve the final goal (reach the center of the galaxy), you end up in the room where you can choose another galaxy with harsher or easier environments (4 options). You start all over again as you have only ship you came with (and it is damaged). You can build a teleport and come back to the old galaxy anytime you want. 

In ONI I can see an option when you reach the tear, the crew will have an option to move to another system with let's say 4 choices:

green - easier than it was before, they get some extra skills

Blue- more water/ice, less resources, cold

red - barren, desert, hot

purple - biological hazard 

 

[Astrologic]

6 hours ago, KonfigSys said:

I think "no mans sky" did implement the end game pretty well.

When you achieve the final goal (reach the center of the galaxy), you end up in the room where you can choose another galaxy with harsher or easier environments (4 options). You start all over again as you have only ship you came with (and it is damaged). You can build a teleport and come back to the old galaxy anytime you want. 

In ONI I can see an option when you reach the tear, the crew will have an option to move to another system with let's say 4 choices:

green - easier than it was before, they get some extra skills

Blue- more water/ice, less resources, cold

red - barren, desert, hot

purple - biological hazard 

 

Hmm, that sounds kinda like a prestige system, a little... what about when you reach the tear the second time though?  Do you just get those options on loop? It's better than nothing, but if you choose the green option, then choose the green option again, does it compound?  Or is it a waste of time?
It does say "I have sent enough duplicants to start another colony", so it doesn't make sense that you don't... start another colony.
Even if they planned to do a ONI 2 game as a continuation of "through the tear", they could just retcon whatever satisfaction they implement in this game in that game.  Not a big deal.

[NeoDeusMachina]

1 hour ago, Astrologic said:

It does say "I have sent enough duplicants to start another colony", so it doesn't make sense that you don't... start another colony.
Even if they planned to do a ONI 2 game as a continuation of "through the tear", they could just retcon whatever satisfaction they implement in this game in that game.  Not a big deal.

To me, it is a very "up to interpretation" kind of ending. It is written in the 1st person, so from the pov of "us" the players I guess (?) since we are the ones controlling the colony.

It's not like any dupe ever came back to tell what actually happen on the other side. They could have been torn apart by the tear as they went through, or maybe they did make it through but they got stranded in the middle of nowhere and starved to death or ran out of O2. There could just be a rocket graveyard on the other side, or maybe they did find a place to settle - who knows? And that is kind of the point. We may or may never know 

[Astrologic]

15 minutes ago, NeoDeusMachina said:

To me, it is a very "up to interpretation" kind of ending. It is written in the 1st person, so from the pov of "us" the players I guess (?) since we are the ones controlling the colony.

It's not like any dupe ever came back to tell what actually happen on the other side. They could have been torn apart by the tear as they went through, or maybe they did make it through but they got stranded in the middle of nowhere and starved to death or ran out of O2. There could just be a rocket graveyard on the other side, or maybe they did find a place to settle - who knows? And that is kind of the point. We may or may never know 

Yeah but that's so boring cause "Anything could have happened" is the same as "nothing happened".
It's like a game you've never played.  "What's the ending like?"  "Who cares?!"
If they leave it up to the imagination, it's the same as "Imagine you played a game".  People would actually rather play a game, than simply imagine one, and it's the same with this vague interpretation.
I'd rather imagine that they're gonna add something to make the game have some replayability.  As fantastical and whimsical and nonsensical as it is to leave it up to the imaginations of the players as though we're a bunch of bewildered children who aren't easily distracted by things which are actual, I'd prefer SOMETHING.

Let's use our super speshul imagination juices to imagine we're playing basketball against each other.  Wasn't that fun just now?
Who won?  Who knows.  Was there even a ball?  For all we know, we could have not even played basketball just now.
See why this is stupid?

[NeoDeusMachina]

6 minutes ago, Astrologic said:

Yeah but that's so boring cause "Anything could have happened" is the same as "nothing happened".
It's like a game you've never played.  "What's the ending like?"  "Who cares?!"
If they leave it up to the imagination, it's the same as "Imagine you played a game".  People would actually rather play a game, than simply imagine one, and it's the same with this vague interpretation.
I'd rather imagine that they're gonna add something to make the game have some replayability.  As fantastical and whimsical and nonsensical as it is to leave it up to the imaginations of the players as though we're a bunch of bewildered children who aren't easily distracted by things which are actual, I'd prefer SOMETHING.

Let's use our super speshul imagination juices to imagine we're playing basketball against each other.  Wasn't that fun just now?
Who won?  Who knows.  Was there even a ball?  For all we know, we could have not even played basketball just now.
See why this is stupid?

I can't say I relate to any of this unfortunately. ONI is about the journey, not the destination. I have played thousands of hours and even if there were some frustrating moments, I can say that I enjoyed each one of them. I am still playing because I still find things to do that I haven't done before or that I would like to do differently or better.

As far as I know, I did not imagine those thousands of hours playing the game? I hope for your sake that you don't feel that because you did not get "rewarded" for reaching the tear, that all the hours you have spent were for nothing - did you have fun? were you challenged in some way or another? Did you not get anything from playing the game at all? Some entertainment at least? Passing time?

I just don't need someone else to hold a carrot at the end of a stick for me to go ahead, I just hold the stick myself. ONI is a sandbox game, and like a lot of sandbox games, you are responsible for where you go, what you want to do, etc. I understand that this is not for everyone and that a lot of people enjoy having set objectives and concrete endings - and I respect that. The game in its current state has a huge potential for replayability. Many people have played it for hundreds or even thousands of hours and are still discovering new things and enjoying the game. I can't say that for many games I own. How much bang for your bucks would you like to get to be satisfied with a game and say it has a good replayability? ONI is cheaper than watching a movie at the cinema which only lasts a couple of hours (the popcorn max 15 minutes). 

I wouldn't play ONI any more or any less if they gave an option to change some arbitrary settings in the game after reaching the tear. I can change the game difficulty myself, and there are tons of mods out there that can do that as well.

But hey, I'll never complain about them adding features to the game and satisfying as many of the players as possible  But I will still be enjoying ONI regardless.

[KonfigSys]

2 hours ago, Astrologic said:

Hmm, that sounds kinda like a prestige system, a little... what about when you reach the tear the second time though?  Do you just get those options on loop? It's better than nothing, but if you choose the green option, then choose the green option again, does it compound?  Or is it a waste of time?
It does say "I have sent enough duplicants to start another colony", so it doesn't make sense that you don't... start another colony.
Even if they planned to do a ONI 2 game as a continuation of "through the tear", they could just retcon whatever satisfaction they implement in this game in that game.  Not a big deal.

Yes. it is never ending. You can send to green and green again but these two systems will be different. It is like if you choose terra start again but with different seed IDs. Some people got to like 73 new galaxies; I got only into three. It is a very lengthy way to get to the galaxy center (not really if you use portals but this is not related to the topic).

I agree that ONI is a game without an end. I had only three starts in the vanilla game.

The first was a complete failure due to lethal viruses that killed my colony.

The 2nd was till the tear and beyond. And the 3rd one was about improvements over 2nd in all aspects and still there were something I wanted to change and had thousands of hours sunk into that till the DLCs came out.

[Astrologic]

4 hours ago, NeoDeusMachina said:

I can't say I relate to any of this unfortunately. ONI is about the journey, not the destination. I have played thousands of hours and even if there were some frustrating moments, I can say that I enjoyed each one of them. I am still playing because I still find things to do that I haven't done before or that I would like to do differently or better.

As far as I know, I did not imagine those thousands of hours playing the game? I hope for your sake that you don't feel that because you did not get "rewarded" for reaching the tear, that all the hours you have spent were for nothing - did you have fun? were you challenged in some way or another? Did you not get anything from playing the game at all? Some entertainment at least? Passing time?

I just don't need someone else to hold a carrot at the end of a stick for me to go ahead, I just hold the stick myself. ONI is a sandbox game, and like a lot of sandbox games, you are responsible for where you go, what you want to do, etc. I understand that this is not for everyone and that a lot of people enjoy having set objectives and concrete endings - and I respect that. The game in its current state has a huge potential for replayability. Many people have played it for hundreds or even thousands of hours and are still discovering new things and enjoying the game. I can't say that for many games I own. How much bang for your bucks would you like to get to be satisfied with a game and say it has a good replayability? ONI is cheaper than watching a movie at the cinema which only lasts a couple of hours (the popcorn max 15 minutes). 

I wouldn't play ONI any more or any less if they gave an option to change some arbitrary settings in the game after reaching the tear. I can change the game difficulty myself, and there are tons of mods out there that can do that as well.

But hey, I'll never complain about them adding features to the game and satisfying as many of the players as possible  But I will still be enjoying ONI regardless.

My problem is this.  All of my systems are perfect.  My water is utilized as much as possible, my battery never depletes or fills entirely, my colony never has brown-outs, my food never depletes, I have transit tubes where I need them, suited dupes where I need them, my oxygen is managed perfectly, CO2 is disposed of as necessary, my ranches are good, everything's good.  There's nothing left for me to do.
One of my planets was destroyed by regolith, but why do I need that planet?  I don't.  It was nice to have when I needed to fuel the tear opener with radbolts and thought "this is a nice little colony, I should expand it a little more and make it habitable", then BOOM, it was destroyed, so I thought "well, screw it then".
So now I just have my self-sufficient colony, nothing to do, just watching my dupes basically idle all cycle until it's time to repair a suit or something, and that's it.
The tear gave me something to aim for, a dead end.
Now I'm here watching my dupes idle again.
Unless I start over from scratch, but here's the thing.  Why?

No really, I have a fully efficient colony, everything was done perfectly.  My industrial machines in a steam chamber, my vents utilized to their maximum potential, fully sustainable.
Why should I start over?  To make things... less perfect than I've already got them?   To give myself an imaginary challenge by pretending I'm drunk and making poor decisions?  I have played for over 2,400 hours, and yes I got enjoyment from it.  It's my favorite game.
But as my favorite game, I don't want to stop playing.  But.. how can I play when I'm just watching my dupes idle?
Even if I play, I'm not playing.
If I start over, I'll likely just replicate my colony, but why would I do that?
To go to the empty dead end tear again?  To try and get all the accomplishments AGAIN?
At least if there was a prestige system, I could work my way to building something whacky and insane.  Some mega-base that I currently can't build otherwise.  I offered ideas that I thought would be fun. 
Bonus points for going through the tear that you could spend on upgrades.

Imagine having manual generators that produced 2000 watts when a dupe runs on them.  That'd be very interesting, it'd change the entire dynamic of the game.
It would change the way you do almost everything.  Or imagine having a super-dupe that could single handedly colonize a planet.
Instead of bouncing back and forth from your home world to the planet you want to colonize, hauling resources over and over again, you could send a single dupe, colonize the planet, then send your normal dupes to live there.  It'd be so much fun.  
Sure, you can do those things using sandbox, or better yet, just imagine it happened.
One thing's for sure, SOMETHING would be FAR BETTER than nothing.

[KonfigSys]

I agree with you that the temporal tear could be a gate to another world. 

But in the mean time you can use mods to make your game experience very different.

I was looking for a similar game but did not find anything of the same quality, dev support, depth. ONI (Klei) really shines.

I tried similar games:

"surviving mars" - very simplistic and at the end just a dome replication (I had all DLCs but they do not add much)

"frostpunk" - too dark/pessimistic (people suffering) and quite simple

"factorio" - the icons are too small for me to enjoy the game (also I do not like bug attacks unlike other players)

"rimworld" - I did not like the graphics

"satisfactory" - very promising, could be a good game but takes a long time to go out of EA with new content coming out very slowly.

 

 

[gabberworld]

1 hour ago, KonfigSys said:

I agree with you that the temporal tear could be a gate to another world. 

But in the mean time you can use mods to make your game experience very different.

I was looking for a similar game but did not find anything of the same quality, dev support, depth. ONI (Klei) really shines.

I tried similar games:

"surviving mars" - very simplistic and at the end just a dome replication (I had all DLCs but they do not add much)

"frostpunk" - too dark/pessimistic (people suffering) and quite simple

"factorio" - the icons are too small for me to enjoy the game (also I do not like bug attacks unlike other players)

"rimworld" - I did not like the graphics

"satisfactory" - very promising, could be a good game but takes a long time to go out of EA with new content coming out very slowly.

 

 

you could try games also like "The guild 3" or Anno 1800

[KonfigSys]

On 10/8/2021 at 4:05 PM, gabberworld said:

you could try games also like "The guild 3" or Anno 1800

Thanks, I checked the games.

The guild 3 has very low rating (mixed) and still in EA (for 4 years).

Anno 1800 is not available in Steam but Anno 2205 which has also mixed reviews. Also it requires 3rd party account which is a big minus for me. 

Both reminded me Civilization or Age of Empires or Tropico. Once Civilization was my favorite game when it was II but now I have VI and I do not like it. 

ONI has its own very unique niche.

The closest could be Dyson Sphere but it is still in EA.

[gabberworld]

1 hour ago, KonfigSys said:

ONI has its own very unique niche.

yes it have.

[spike4597]

dont be so negative. some people, like me, have never made it past cycle 500 and are still exploring the game. if ONI is boring, go play something else.