Screen overlay when Wanda is close to death

[SomebodyRandom]

A lot of people have been complaining that the Health loss sound is bad, but I disagree. I really like the health loss sound and @Mike23Ua pointed out that from his experience the health loss sound reminds me of his time running out even though it's very subtle and not enough people notice it, ending up dying anyways.

@DajeKotlyar said that there should be something indicating that time is running out because the health loss sound and the blinking circle around the clock is way too subtle for them to notice in time.

Therefore I propose to keep you all from continuing dying over and over again because these things are way too subtle, an overlay around the edges, like how you get one when your Beefalo is low on health, or your sanity is low. An idea that I thought up for this overlay would be to have clocks ticking rapidly to symbolize your time that is about to run out. And have it start at age 77, giving you 2 minutes of warning before you end up dying.

Now I would like to hear your thoughts about this, I've seen someone argue that the fact that you need to keep close attention to your age (I don't actually recall if someone actually implied that, my memory is pretty bad and I just vaguely remember something of the sorts, but I'd like to hear your thoughts either way), and having everything be really subtle makes the character more fun and engaging to play as. So would you prefer if it stayed subtle or have something more dramatic to point out that you're about to die?

[Mike23Ua]

Beefalo have no health overlay.. 

Long mods related complaint in Spoiler Tag-

Spoiler

you probably have been playing with so many mods that you forget what the default experience with the game is actually like- for console players it’s just much more complicated then it needs to be, on PC you guys have things like Health mods or show me enemy mob health bars. We don’t get to know WHEN our Beefalo is going to die until he done went & gone toes up.

Its even WORSE when I hit Dragonfly and she shows no actual signs of having taken any damage, so you have no idea if 500 hits later she’s any closer to dying.. I get that DS & DST were designed this way, and it’s probably part of the “No hands holding uncompromising experience.” But when is the last time anyone with mods available actually played the Vanilla game experience? For me personally: I always GAVE UP trying to kill her because I Legit thought she had Regenerating Health & I needed more powerful weapons to kill it or something…

With Wanda in particular even though her entire “theme” is clocks, I think it would have been cool to have an Hour Glass icon that slowly trickles out of sands to her time being up, and when she rolls her clocks back.. the little hour glass “flips” back over so the sands that have poured into the bottom half are now in the top half. It may not Exactly be a “Clock” but it DOES convey “Time” & I think that would be pretty easy to keep track of if say for example: players wanted to turn the health draining sound off.

I don’t agree that her age changing should represent a Bell Chime though- Because THEN people would be confusing their health getting lower with the same sound the game “chimes” when you pick up enough resources to craft a new recipe.

[SomebodyRandom]

26 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Beefalo have no health overlay.. 

They do

Quote

We don’t get to know WHEN our Beefalo is going to die until he done went & gone toes up.

The character also has a quote for when the beefalo is close to death on top of this overlay. For example, Wormwood's is "Riding friend is hurt"

[Mike23Ua]

8 minutes ago, SomebodyRandom said:

They do

Yeah that to me like all other console games just indicates he has taken damage from a source- usually the attacks coming in the location the flash of red is coming from. This doesn’t actually convey how close to dying your Beefalo actually is.

On PC you can get a Mod that makes his health resemble Abigails icon, with actual damage numbers which is a better way of knowing when your furry pal is about to bite the dust.

In Borderlands 2 when you did enough damage to an enemy they would “limp” around with painful looking expressions on their face indicating they are near to death, and in Ark survival evolved this is indicated by how much bloodier your dinosaur becomes. Beefalo look absolutely MISERABLE when you shave their Fur off… So a QOL update that makes being able to visually see how much closer something is to dying (be that with health bars or visual cues like Borderlands 2 when health bars are toggled off) would be very welcomed in my Eyes.

Wanda even does this herself- she visually changes appearance the younger or older she becomes, so at the very LEAST I’m not going to mistake “Young Wanda” as being close to death. I think maybe if people find the audio cue for her aging to be annoying that Klei should add an option to disable it- but for ME it reminds me to wind my clocks back when maybe for example: I’ve forgotten I need to do that because been too busy fight, running for my life, boating, or exploring.

I think she should have a last minute warning like “I’m so tired.. I just want to give up & rest now I have run out of time...” Just to remind the player to roll the clock back or something.

[SomebodyRandom]

10 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Yeah that to me like all other console games just indicates he has taken damage from a source- usually the attacks coming in the location the flash of red is coming from. This doesn’t actually convey how close to dying your Beefalo actually is.

Although this same sprite does appear for when your Beefalo is taking damage, the sprite is brighter and not long-lasting. You can clearly see the Hounds I used to take damage dead over there. I would've needed to kill them, run away, and then take a screenshot all in the extremely short amount of time that it takes for the sprite to disappear, this would not be possible. On the other hand, when the Beefalo's health falls under a certain amount of health, the Rider says that the Beefalo is low and this sprite appears on the bottom until the Beefalo's health goes back up past the threshold. It conveys enough that the Beefalo is getting low.

[DajeKotlyar]

Oh, thanks for creating topic.

Beefalo have this overlay, when it's hp drop to near 15%. Also character have a quote (my favourite is a Wigfrids quote)

[ArubaroBeefalo]

11 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Yeah that to me like all other console games just indicates he has taken damage from a source- usually the attacks coming in the location the flash of red is coming from. This doesn’t actually convey how close to dying your Beefalo actually is.

No, that isnt the same overlay as when you take damage.  When i beefalo is really low, all the time, you see that red frame so yes it tells you how much hp they have

 

Wanda doesnt need nothing to tell you she is close to die. Does wilson tells you? Is fun to walk and suddenly die for being old. Death doesnt advertise you a heart atack before it happens

[Red Carnage]

I dont think that screen overlay is needed, atleast not for me. black or white overlay would look good.

[Well-met]

she visually looks older, should be enough?

[SomebodyRandom]

1 hour ago, Well-met said:

she visually looks older, should be enough?

No, because plenty of people tend to purposefully keep themselves as old for the damage, not to mention that we (humans as a whole) get distracted and tend to forget. So we're gonna forget to heal and end up dying. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 hours ago, SomebodyRandom said:

No, because plenty of people tend to purposefully keep themselves as old for the damage, not to mention that we (humans as a whole) get distracted and tend to forget. So we're gonna forget to heal and end up dying. 

that is part of the risk

i almost die in 2 boss fights because of that and i think is hilarious

edit: just get used to check the right corner often, if the clock is close to 12:00 heal, simple

[Mysterious box]

21 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Death doesnt advertise you a heart atack before it happens

I chuckled more than i should have...

[Beeremy the III]

I agree with this. We have an overlay for no sanity and an overlay for 0 hunger, why not an overlay for high age or low health?

 

[Yuuko]

I think at 78 years old she should have a quote about her time running out, and a persistent overlay or ticking sound indicator.  Not only does this help remind players that they may be expiring without any other risky things happening, it can also put some edge on when you are low and can't just wind your watch, which can serve to hype up that moment as you scramble to do what you can before death.

Thing is - with Wanda you're playing between 65-80 years old for her perks, and a single rewind clears 7 years.  You don't want to use it until you're 73+ to keep yourself from winding back to middle aged.  As such she's often playing in that last 10 years of life.  This is great in a fight when you're counting the damage you can / can't take and fitting a rewind into your kiting pattern.  Not so great when that stressful moment passed and you're just gathering loot and walking back... and die

Keep in mind you do lose a good amount of years each day passively.  It doesn't take much to slide form young to middle aged without thinking, just being busy in the game.  I think the risk of dying due to focusing on a task that doesn't involve your health due to subtle indicators isn't a "fun" element of the game.  Yes it can be funny when you die while tending to a field.  Funny, but not fun.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Not so great when that stressful moment passed and you're just gathering loot and walking back... and die

But being a granny is already telling you to check your clock often

[Yuuko]

2 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

But being a granny is already telling you to check your clock often

visually its not very telling when you're wearing a helmet and backpack.  Also, like the stats, your character usually isn't the biggest focus.  Its the road you're following, the loot you're carrying, whatever.  Having a ticking noise when you're 78+, or an overlay, or having her give some speech line could easily remind a player before they die.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 hours ago, Shosuko said:

visually its not very telling when you're wearing a helmet and backpack.  Also, like the stats, your character usually isn't the biggest focus.  Its the road you're following, the loot you're carrying, whatever.  Having a ticking noise when you're 78+, or an overlay, or having her give some speech line could easily remind a player before they die.

I mean... she literally makes an animation when changes her form

Wilson doesnt get filled with scars when low health why would you need more sings that wanda is low health? Yoy literaly have a clock dividied by colours plus the animation when changes and the reskin to older

Is her downside. Play mature if you are afraid of forgeting to use the clock at 79 but having overlays and other handholding stuff will just break part of the fun and risk of being in granny form. The emotion of fighting bosses without confidence of remembering to use the clock is a signature in the character playstile

She is already hard to kill when is granny, atleast let her being able to die because player stupidity...

[Yuuko]

5 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

I mean... she literally makes an animation when changes her form

Wilson doesnt get filled with scars when low health why would you need more sings that wanda is low health? Yoy literaly have a clock dividied by colours plus the animation when changes and the reskin to older

Is her downside. Play mature if you are afraid of forgeting to use the clock at 79 but having overlays and other handholding stuff will just break part of the fun and risk of being in granny form. The emotion of fighting bosses without confidence of remembering to use the clock is a signature in the character playstile

She is already hard to kill when is granny, atleast let her being able to die because player stupidity...

The form change only happens when she drops passed 65 age, if you're already there then there is no extra animation.  With equipment on its not as easy to tell whether she is old / middle aged either.  The tension is not lost from this because there is no tension dying while tending plants, walking between biomes, etc.  The tension would increase when you're aging out while your ageless is on cd hoping it comes back before you expire, or if you're in a fight and get that overlay so you know you need to fit an ageless rewind in your kiting pattern soon or you'll be out.

It would probably be a net gain, lending more tension to the moments where its appropriate while helping players avoid accidental deaths tending crock pots.

Its not like I'm dying all the time to this, but in my first day with Wanda I died 3 times this way.  None of them were that fun, or funny.  Just "Oh, I died, I guess I'll just lose 2 days while I ghost back and get a res."  Meanwhile in a fight being at 66 or 78 feels the same when 78 should feel so much more on edge...

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

The form change only happens when she drops passed 65 age, if you're already there then there is no extra animation.  With equipment on its not as easy to tell whether she is old / middle aged either.  The tension is not lost from this because there is no tension dying while tending plants, walking between biomes, etc.  The tension would increase when you're aging out while your ageless is on cd hoping it comes back before you expire, or if you're in a fight and get that overlay so you know you need to fit an ageless rewind in your kiting pattern soon or you'll be out.

It would probably be a net gain, lending more tension to the moments where its appropriate while helping players avoid accidental deaths tending crock pots.

Its not like I'm dying all the time to this, but in my first day with Wanda I died 3 times this way.  None of them were that fun, or funny.  Just "Oh, I died, I guess I'll just lose 2 days while I ghost back and get a res."  Meanwhile in a fight being at 66 or 78 feels the same when 78 should feel so much more on edge...

If you decide to keep her old age form you asume the risk 

If you die tending plants is your fault. You could use the clock to be younger instead of old (why would you be old outiside of fights?) So you have room to forget about using the clock since you will notice it when she does the changing animation (with clock  sounds and a shadow hand coming from a clock, hard to miss)

I get your point but i dont see it neccesary. Having an alarm to alert you of high age will make us lose more than gain in terms of gameplay

[Yuuko]

3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

I get your point but i dont see it neccesary. Having an alarm to alert you of high age will make us lose more than gain in terms of gameplay

Doubtful - highlighting when you're older would increase tension at that moment when it would be difficult to heal.  Its a gain.  We gain tension in moments where it matters, and where it doesn't - we lose hype-killing, senseless deaths.

Guarantee you getting a ticking sound when you're 78+ while fighting Dragonfly, or shadows in ruins is going to add hype to that fight.  Its like, what you don't know can't scare you - so a reminder you're about to die would be better here too.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Doubtful - highlighting when you're older would increase tension at that moment when it would be difficult to heal.  Its a gain.  We gain tension in moments where it matters, and where it doesn't - we lose hype-killing, senseless deaths.

Guarantee you getting a ticking sound when you're 78+ while fighting Dragonfly, or shadows in ruins is going to add hype to that fight.  Its like, what you don't know can't scare you - so a reminder you're about to die would be better here too.

Sure but at the same time you can chill knowing that the game will tell you when you are in danger so most of the time that tension wont exists

It will make things more exciting if you have the clock in CD, if not, it will you tell "ey, use now your clock"

Im not saying is a bad suggestion, i though about that too, but i think, as she is, she is perfect

We will miss a lot of funny moments having that alert

[Yuuko]

29 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

We will miss a lot of funny moments having that alert

Funny once or twice maybe...  But never fun.  It doesn't add anything to the game to not have a last moments indicator.  If things were reversed and we had this I see no argument where taking it out actually improves the game.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

12 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Funny once or twice maybe...  But never fun.  It doesn't add anything to the game to not have a last moments indicator.  If things were reversed and we had this I see no argument where taking it out actually improves the game.

maybe we find fun different things...

i just can talk from my taste and i prefer a lot more the wanda we have which makes you pay attention when you are fighting in granny than knowing the game will tell me that i need to retreat to heal.

It loses a lot of exciting moments and, imo, makes her way more balanced paying that price to get crazy damage than knowing i will have an alarm when i get too damaged with a character that can wear a 95% damage reduction armor without penalties and that can deal near wolfgang damage with a hambat at 75%hp