Hamlet features in Together (feat. Wilba)

[Spookyrus]

It makes me really happy to see elements of Shipwrecked being worked into DST, gradually, taking aspects of that game mode and tweaking them to better suit the setting of the vanilla Constant. The general concept of an explorable sea is of course drawn from Shipwrecked, and there's some noticeable visual inspiration from Shipwrecked in the new Waterlogged biome. Said biome also has a visual canopy similar to those seen in Hamlet, but as far as I can tell, that's where the similarities between Together and Hamlet end.

The reason there's much fewer aspects of Hamlet being worked into Together, I'd imagine, is because it deviates so far from the vanilla Don't Starve experience. I don't think it should be completely written off because of that, though. There's a number of aspects of both Hamlet and Shipwrecked that I think could be really fun to play in DST! So I wanted to brainstorm what mechanics and features might work well, or just be fun to have, in Together.

I suppose the obvious thing would be player houses like the Slanty Shanty from Hamlet; build yourself a little house and have your own homey little pocket dimension to decorate and call your own! Maybe each house could be "owned" by the player who builds it and they can lock and unlock the door to keep other players out or let them in. Maybe PvP could have a method of breaking into other players' houses... But this is probably the most out-there feature of Hamlet, and I see how it could raise issues in multiplayer.

While the whole of the treasure hunting mechanic might be out of place in Together, it could be really cool to have more traps and puzzles sort of like those found in the Ancient Pig Ruins. I love setpieces like the exploding chest and the reed trap, they're despicable and great, and I also love stuff like the obelisk blockades and pretty much everything about the ruins. Things that punish the player for acting without thinking, challenges that require the player to strategize instead of using brute force. Also, special items that you have to search for! Rather than just being boss drops like most important items. Big, grand fights are exciting, but small non-fighting challenges are fun too. While I don't think that sort of thing belongs on the mainland surface, areas that you have to go out of your way to reach (like the Ruins and Lunar Island) are perfect for them. I hope we get more areas like those with more unique challenges. And who knows! Maybe a whole area with focus on disarming hidden traps and locating secret passages could work in Together, if it were implemented right.

Perhaps finding and bypassing traps could be a special feature of Wheeler if she were added? She's an Indiana Jones type explorer after all, and "adventure" and "finding things" are two of her strong points.

What interests me most conceptually is putting more emphasis on pigs, given that they're the most abundant race native to the Constant. It could be fun to give players the option to commune with the pigs beyond temporarily bribing them with food, to gain a reputation with the people on the island. I think a good way to do that would be to introduce multiple types of pigs that the players must "create" by either building new types of pig houses or "renovating" existing pig houses.

Different types of houses would spawn different types of pigs, similar to the pig traders found in Hamlet, but less "classy" I suppose. They'd still be rural like the vanilla pigs and still behave mostly the same, but they'd act less rude towards players. They'll trade gold to players in exchange for certain materials, and vice-versa. These different types of pig villagers would each have a profession, which determines what materials they'll trade, and might give them different perks when befriended (a lumberjack pig chops faster, a miner pig mines faster, a farmer pig might tend to crops, etc.). The trading could potentially allow for alternative acquisition of rare materials, and that of those which are difficult or impossible to obtain in worlds without caves.

This would also draw a bit more of a line between the pigs and the merms, the latter of whom are emphasized by Wurt's inclusion.

WHICH BRINGS ME TO THE POINT OF wilba. Whether or not there's any intentions of introducing more of the single-player exclusive Survivors to Together remains a mystery for now, but I for one love all of the Survivors and think it would be fantastic to have the whole gang together. Wilba is one of my personal favorites, of course, that's kind of what spurred this thread. It's a touch odd that we have a merm character in DST and not a pig character, just given the aforementioned abundance of pigs; I love Wurt even more than Wilba, but this is something that I noticed recently and has been bugging me a little since.

ANYWAY I think that giving more utility to pigs would be kind of essential in bringing Wilba to DST. One of her biggest perks in Hamlet is that she can do whatever she wants in pig villages without consequences — steal, destroy, assault — which of course doesn't apply to vanilla Don't Starve. There isn't anywhere near as much of a benefit to her being a pig or a princess outside of Hamlet. Maybe if pigs were more protective of their stuff, attacking players who smash their houses or pick their crops, then Wilba could be immune to that and the pigs would remain neutral... but maybe that's too big a change. At the very least, I think pigs should defend Wilba regardless of whether or not they're befriended, the same as they defend each other, and pig friendship should last longer for Wilba. And Pig Guards should be neutral towards her, so she can take stuff from their setpieces without drawing aggro. Maybe she can even befriend Pig Guards! Who knows.

My original thought was that the whole "pig renovation" mechanic could be exclusive to Wilba; she mentions feeling homesick when examining regular pig houses, and given that she's effectively a foreign dignitary, it makes sense that she could try to bring some "refinement" to these less fortunate people, making things more comfortable for herself in the process. The more I think about it though, I think it would be better to make this available to all players. Wilba should just have special benefits she can reap from it. Since pigs give Wilba free stuff once per day, pig villagers would give specific materials based on their profession. They might also give her better stuff in trade than they give to other players. Maybe she can also station Pig Guards wherever she wants, which the other characters wouldn't be able to.

In any case, Wilba is clearly a force of chaos and destruction. Giving her the unique ability to create is too out-of-character.

As for Werewilba, she might be a bit too powerful compared to the other characters, getting the damage output of a Thulecite Club and speed boost on par with Overcharged WX-78 for the price of just two monster meat. It might make sense to nerf her just a tad and instead give her the option to get special buffs, only one at a time, in her wereform via special consumable items, not unlike Wendy's elixirs. Increase her power OR her speed, or maybe her damage absorption or health regen or even her gathering efficiency depending on what you want to do. If the materials to make these consumables are hard to come by, trading with the pig villagers might make them easier to obtain, with an increased or even guaranteed chance to give Wilba the materials she needs.

It would also be nice to give Wilba a Weremeter so that the player has more control over her transformation. Have it drain gradually like Woodie's does so she changes back when it's empty, and let her upkeep it by eating more monster food or some such. That way it can be aborted if necessary or potentially upkept indefinitely. (Also Werewilba should be able to rally other Werepigs and the Silver Necklace should work for Woodie as well, thanks for coming to my TED Talk)

Other than that, it would be really nice to have Webber's Shamlet Mask (or something similar) in DST. This would allow him, Wurt, and Wortox to interact with pigs without being attacked on sight, and Wurt to trade with the Pig King. That would be handy with or without changes being made to pigs.

Also maybe a gun weapon? Like just a freaking gun?? Blam Blam??? That would be rad

That's all I could think of, thank you for your time

[Well-met]

Blunderbuss is the only thing worth importing

[QuartzBeam]

17 hours ago, Spookyrus said:

The general concept of an explorable sea is of course drawn from Shipwrecked

And here I thought that the general concept of an explorable sea is drawn from this whole sailing thing people have been doing for a few millennia now.

[me real life]

56 minutes ago, QuartzBeam said:

And here I thought that the general concept of an explorable sea is drawn from this whole sailing thing people have been doing for a few millennia now.

No need for the sarcasm. Even if SW and RoT are almost entirely separate in terms of mechanics and creatures and such... it's kind of hard to argue that RoT's ocean was somehow thought of entirely independently of the existing ocean-based world in DS. RoT isn't directly SW in DST or anything, and its content is almost entirely original, but it feels disingenuous to argue that RoT's ocean was not at all influenced in any way by Shipwrecked, a previous project in the same series that was even worked on by some of the same devs.

[Guille6785]

24 minutes ago, Sunset Skye said:

No need for the sarcasm. Even if SW and RoT are almost entirely separate in terms of mechanics and creatures and such... it's kind of hard to argue that RoT's ocean was somehow thought of entirely independently of the existing ocean-based world in DS. RoT isn't directly SW in DST or anything, and its content is almost entirely original, but it feels disingenuous to argue that RoT's ocean was not at all influenced in any way by Shipwrecked, a previous project in the same series that was even worked on by some of the same devs.

quartzbeam was making a joke

[Pig Princess]

I would like to see Wilba added to DST, as well as pigs receiving some tweaks, and have some ideas about Wilba refresh, so decided to post here instead of creating another very similar topic.

The intent of suggestions below is to make Wilba suit DST invironment more, e.i. RoG-based world (but with some key differences from single-player in mind), bring something in terms of cooperation to the team, bring something new to the world itself, define/give her some purpose in terms of aid in learning for new players.

1. Keep her maximum hunger, health, sanity, speed, hunger drain, sanity drain rate from darkness, health regeneration while not hungry in werepig form, gain/drain of stats due to food the same as in single player, as well as monster food effects on her, but change her overheating/freezing immunity to 240 insulation (basically Woodie treatment). I think 70% water resistance would be ok, it's the same as Woodie has, she can't use anything except trees/canopy to increase this value, would have the same insulation as Woodie in terms of freezing resistance should she become too wet, and while she can use inventory unlike him, she can't protect what she holds in main inventory from being wet just like him, can't bring backpack with her in were-form (Woodie can) and store food/fuel for light source/clothing there, and her fur when wet drains more sanity (since it counts as 3 wet items equipped in hand, body and head slot) than Woodie's wereform.

I would remove automatic full heal upon becoming a werepig and returning to regular form, instead when switching forms keep percentage of her health the same, for example, if in regular form she was at 75 hp (50%), then immediately after becoming werepig she would be at 175 (still 50%) and starts to heal provided her hunger is above 0, same logic with changing back to regular form. Intent of this change is to keep healing sources game has relevant for Wilba, because right now in Hamlet she can completely skip those unless she is hit enough to die, which is easy to avoid anyway due to increased speed. Werepigs fully heal when turning, but in that case I'm against consistency for balance purposes and character design purposes (+ she already is different from regular werepigs since she needs only 2 monster food to enter wereform, which lasts 8 minutes instead of 2, so I don't see a problem here).

I'd remove automatic godmode during the turning animation for both pig->werepig and werepig->pig transitions, but make her skip that animation should she be attacked during it, just like normal werepigs and because I feel like it would be fair trade.

She also should be allowed to go between shards in any form, as well as use wormholes/tentapillar holes (not sure if Woodie can do that in wereworm, but I don't see a problem with that, instead it would be just nice convenience).

I would keep her ability to chop, mine, dig and hammer, as well as add ability to row if she is on boat (otherwise she can easily be stuck and that's neither difficult to manage, nor fun provided she has some food in the inventory) in were-form. I think additing ability to till but not plant or harvest would be ok too.; for structures like tents, sails or gates primary action should be hammer, e.i. it should be impossible to use them. It should be possible to put items in containers, but not open them, build structures, but not cook on fire, use items in the inventory (bundles, pan flute, etc.) that don't require equipping in were-form (she works like that in Hamlet right now).

Make sanity modifier aura of monsters (including bosses) in were-form to be 0 or significantly less than 1. Considering the fact that she can't wear armor to speed up the fight and creatures have 2 times more health, some bosses have much more than 3000 (DS bearger, the biggest health pool of sanity-draining entity, as far as I remember), I think it's fair.

2. Allow her to equip amulets in were-form, including silver necklace; also make silver necklace turn wereWilba into Wilba regardless of how much monster food was consumed, but break when used that way. I think it should be craftable too, be in magic tab and require some ritual before it could function, like be put inside moon stone/moon dial for 5+ minutes of daylight/dwarf star light/polar light without interruption (so it could only be done either in the middle of summer or with ruins gear). Something full moon/new moon related can be good too, but full moon induces curse to pigs instead of relieving them, and new moon is about nightmare fuel creatures (shadow pieces), so I'm not sure how it could be put together.

I think silver necklace should have the same effect on Woodie; I'm not sure about crafting recipe, since there is no silver in the constant, but I think pigs could give Wilba some in exchange for other resources like moorock or gems (possible logical explanation: pigs have material to help themselves with the curse, but forgot how to do ritual, material is rare and valuable, so they agree to exchange that only for things they have trouble getting, like gems - since they are afraid of darkness in the caves - and moonrock - since it requires doing moonstone event to get more or go to caves and fight big monster creature, and they can't because they turn into werepigs or are afraid respectively).

3. Make pigs valuable not only as food, but as trading partners. I don't suggest make them better followers with Wilba's help because Wurt and Webber already fullfill that role, and I don't want further competition.

In particular, to make them traders, Wilba could give them silver necklace, renovate their house and give them some food (for example, 150 points worth and it shouldn't be monster food). Then no upkeep would be necessary except keeping those pigs alive, and if they happen to be outside of their houses on full moon/inside moonstorm, they won't turn into werepigs and would go to their houses instead. Pigs with necklace should be visually distingushable from regular ones.

I would like these trader pigs accept particular items in exchange to particular ones back, mostly related to farming and animal husbandry, but not restricted to that (RoG pigs have flowers, carrots, berry bushes set pieces, pumpkins in DST, so lore-wise there is no contradiction).

Possible deals:

berries/juicy berries -> berry bushes (regular and leafy)

fists full of jam -> juicy berry bushes

bucket o'poop -> grass tufts and saplings

seafood gumbo -> reed plant (bush, after planting couldn't be dug up; I know reeds can't be transplanted now, but one can dream)

feathers of specific color -> corresponding alive birds (crow for jet feather)

beefalo wool and meat recipe that gives at least 75 hunger -> beefalo baby starts following player, which will eventually grow up and form it's own herd

moonrock/gem -> silver (for silver necklace craft)

mushy cakes -> spores of all 3 types (at least 1 of each per exchanged cake)

trail mix -> cacti flowers

taffy -> pumpkins and pumpkin seeds

spicy chili -> peppers and pepper seeds

surf'n'turf -> tomatoes and tomato seeds

bacon and eggs -> onion and onion seeds

any barnacle dish -> anenemy (item)

any leafy meat dish - fleshy bulb

glow berries/lesser glow berries/glow berry mousse -> cave bananas

ice cream -> volt goat horns (maybe banana pop and melonsicle too could be exchanged for horn, but definitely not in 1:1 ratio)

stone fruits (quite a few) -> dug stone fruit bushes (sprouts still would have value because they produce stone fruit bushes that don't need to be fertilized)

flint/golden axe (including low % ones) - logs

flint/golden shovel (including low % ones) - logs

flint/golden pickaxe (including low % ones) - rocks

other tools -> twigs

floats and lures -> corresponding crafting materials (as if they were deconstructed)

light bulbs -> ropes

any fig dish (to pig king or pig trader) -> pig skin

These are just examples, but idea behind those deals is to make more resources renewable, obtainable outside of specific season or part of day-night cycle (birds without catcoon in light's out), give alternative way to get some specific seeds (possibly faster than using regular seeds and farm plot in case player looks for specific ones), make bananas accessible on the surface without going back to the caves in late game (via forest stalker) and not break balance too much, make some kind of low percentage tools disposal, but with some profit (I know one can just delete them via lureplant), as well as reduce amount of grind needed to get some resources. Fig dish trade is there to make sure Wilba can bring back pigs from the extinction using resources that can't be depleted in a world with normal game settings, and also to allow her farm pig skin in the late game without murdering pigs.

4. Make pigs gift Wilba basic resources (grass, twigs, flint, logs, generic seeds) like it already is in single player, but only if she has inventory space to accept the gift. Also make Wilba able to trade with pig traders even at dusk and night (but keep pigs still turning light in their houses off even if Wilba is the one who gets close to the house).

5. Make Wilba able to craft shamlet mask, which would allow monsters to go near pigs, as well as everyone other than Wilba trade with pig traders. Mask should be durability-based instead of spoilage-based, recipe can be the same as in Hamlet - 1 pig skin, 1 beard hair, 2 twigs.

I think that way Wilba could provide unique playstyle (due to werepig form and pig traders), and she would give to the team alternative ways of acquiring some resources, make some of them renewable, more accessible, and ability to bring pigs back from extinction in alternative way (right now one can do that by killing werepigs during moonstone event aside from deconstructin pig skin-requiring items), + help for Woodie.

Her role in terms of teaching new players would be: better inventory managment, food planning, easier cave exploration in werepig form (due to night vision and big health pool), rewarding for learning more crock pot recipes than just meatball and pierogi.

For veteran players: more emphasis on kiting instead of tanking and no-armor boss fights, ability to relocate reeds, to use more morning stars and more flexibility in non-default worlds.