[Feedback] - crop mutation & accessibility

[Ctri]

The number of crop mutations are varied, have specific uses that make them worthwhile, and are all round a valued addition to the game.
My favourite uses are getting more tolerant version of Sleetwheat, and more efficient versions of bristle blossoms, but that's neither here nor there.

At the moment, mutated crops seems like a very hit-and-miss thing. You either need a very concentrated radiation source, or a small radiation source and time. I've been using wheezeworts spaced intermittently between crops, though I have previously got a shinebug reactor to do the trick.
The problem is that generating seeds in this way is extremely time consuming. By the time you've got enough seeds of the kind you want to be meaningful, you're likely past the point where they're necessary.

Unless the intent is to have mutated crops be an end game thing, then generating seeds needs to be easier, whether that be by having more convenient and focused sources of radiation we can apply to plants (perhaps a fertiliser type?), or my preferred option, allow mutated crops to produce seeds with a negative base value. A skilled farmer will be able to overcome that, much like a trained farmer is needed to analyse the mutant seeds in the first instance.

I'm not sure what the appropriate threshold would be, but I feel this can make the feature much more accessible to an earlier stage of the game, if that's part of the desired design.

Thanks for reading :)

[Sasza22]

We need some QoL for creating radiation. The current systems are either limited or require a large midgame setup at which point you don`t really need the mutations. Also some of the mutations are really weak like the extra decor one. I might consider it for a drecko farm but it takes a lot of time to get enough seeds and still needs radiation to keep it growing. A lot of effort for little effect. With proper rad lamps and the mutated plants producing seeds as well it would be easier to set up.

[pether]

I think that plant mutations should be hard to get, but after that - easy to reproduce. Like mutated plants should drop seeds with their mutation. Or there should be an end-game building, something like diamond press, that would allow to enhance normal seeds with one of the mutations you discovered so far.

Also - radiation lamps are a must. They could consume radbolts and emmit minimal radiation needed for plants to thrive.

I got super excited when mutated plants were introduced, but it seems to be still in late beta phase, awaiting for final polish.

[Dovahkick]

Having a whole colony of shine bugs is probably the best way to get radioactivity without getting too technical it seems like, but getting radioactivity for plants still remains a challenge (especially for Sleet Wheats who have the highest rad tolerance of all plants).

Research Reactors are currently the most radioactive buildings in term of range and value (even doubled after a recent meltdown), but they would ALWAYS need to be surrounded by Insulated Tiles, which in turn reduce the radioactivity that comes out of them.

Using radbolts on plants when they're about to be harvested is also a way to get mutated plants, but they'd require such a complicated setup. Not only that, but the radbolt generator that shoots those radbolts would need to produce a good load of rads as well...and the timing would have to be perfect between the shot and the harvest.

Wheezeworts each produce a small amount of rads and are perfect for keeping mutated plants growing, but they cool the ambient air around them, which can be bad if their fertilization/irrigation is already cold enough. It's even worse when you have plants with the Superspecialized trait, since their heat tolerance is halved (also, any trait that increases the yeld on harvest, doesn't work on Sleet Wheats and Nosh Beans since they drop seeds as food ingredients rather than actual food).

[Coolthulhu]

The idea of tying it to radiation is pretty bad when the reactor is the only source of intense radiation in the game and it's one of the endgame-most buildings.

The mutations have obvious hierarchy of usefulness:

• Decor mutation is tier 0 - maybe worth the plant not dropping seeds. Maybe. Certainly not worth having to provide 25 rads.
• Lower requirements, extra lice are tier 1 - an upgrade over base, but not worth a wheezewort for sure.
• Specialized is tier 2 - if you have 3-4 of those, it may (just may) be worth using a wheezewort.
• Super-specialized is tier 3 - clear upgrade over base and probably worth a wort, unless it's on a trash plant like lice or lily

If both mutation radiation and mutated plant requirements depended on mutation quality, bad mutations could have their uses.

Say, decor mutations appearing in 0 rads and requiring 0 rads, lower tiers being usable with space radiation, but super-specialized requiring a reactor to even get it to spawn.

[pether]

3 hours ago, Coolthulhu said:

The mutations have obvious hierarchy of usefulness:

It is kinda established that the lower tier number, the better the item, so the decor mutations would be tier4

[KonfigSys]

Plant mutation part IMHO is not completed.

1. We need ability to differentiate mutated from normal seeds for storage, transportation, other usages (fish feeding, cooking)

We suggested before to have a separate category for mutated seeds (in storage bins, loaders, etc.)

2. The 25 rad requirements - we need better mechanism in the game for that.

Wheezeworts are good but they are limited in quantity. I suggested to have an option to have a biomodule for rocketry and ability to bring animals (eggs) and seeds from space POIs (like we had in the vanilla game). So we do not rely on printer RNG but have an alternative way to get what we need. Alternatively, Klei can add eggs and seeds to the resource type for each POIs and if you have a solid cargo module you collect some with other solid materials (not as neat but much easy to add).

I did  40 wild wheezewort farm (all seeds were brought by biomodule) in the vanilla game for cooling (obviously it was not very great for cooling) but now we need many wheezeworts to keep the 25rad requirement met.

Other options are not great.

Shinebugs - too many of them and your FPS goes down.

Radbolt rocket - using game mechanics but like a bug usage (by this way you can get as many mutated seeds as you wish in a short time).

Solid tile compressing of nuclear waste - again sounds close to bug usage than to proper game mechanics. No offense to those who use it and above. They just simply act rationally.

If you could make tiles (or better tempshift plates) radiating 25+ rad  using special machinery, radbolt utilization, then it will be more reasonable.

Let's say you need like a diamond press building to make a new solid always radioactive material which you can use to build radioactive tempshift plates (there are such unused materials in the game file).

Some players use the nuclear reactor for these purposes but at the point when you are ready to set a proper nuclear reactor you do not need mutated farms really. I am perfectly ok to have high rad requirements to mutate seeds (using nuclear reactor for mass production of such seeds, using wheezeworts or shinebugs at the game beginning). But having to build a massive structure or depend on RNG of printer for a relatively small profit you gain with mutated plants is irrational. I do not doubt that everyone will do it at least once to see how it works but it may become a game feature that not very usable. 

We have such in game already - moo (no reproduction, no efficient way to lure them into farms). The only way to use is to collect the dead moo meat from the chlorine asteroid. 

Floor sweeper - players used it before the nerf. After the nerf (before they were not overheating and cool down regolith to 20C), some are using it with mods mainly (with the recharge station outputs for liquid and conveyor, with a menu to choose which resources to collect, etc.)