Renewable Ores

[TuxSam123]

I've seen this problem around here many, many times. There are a couple of elegant, but very simple solutions to that

Option 1: Bring meteors back, but only on a few planetoids

The big thing about Spaced Out! is that it made space more interesting and accesible sooner. The problem with the base game was that you had to make a lot, I mean, A LOT of steel before going to space. By adding meteors to only a few select planetoids, we're making the metal ores renewable without interfering with the most important thing about Spaced Out!

Option 2: Make some ore comets.

I'm not gonna lie, this idea wasn't mine, but it could be the solution to the ore problem

By making renewable ore comets, which pass from time to time throughout the cluster, the ore problem would be solved, and it would integrate space travel as well!

[sakura_sk]

Option 3: 

 

[crbd115]

1 hour ago, TuxSam123 said:

Option 1: Bring meteors back, but only on a few planetoids

Option 2: Make some ore comets.

Definitely would like one or both of these.
I would like metoers to be back on some of the later planetoids (at least the volcanic one) for renewable regolith, metal ore, and just to have a reason for bunker doors and tiles to be utilized. I would love an option in world config settings to put them back on earlier or on the classic map specifically as an option as well.

1 hour ago, sakura_sk said:

Option 3: 

 

Not as sure about this.

I would like a critter based option as well. One of the ones I have mentioned a few times in the past is having a rust drecko or a different critter that produces rust as a byproduct. This gives renewable chlorine and iron ore. I personally just like when we have multiple angles of approach for everything. Want renewable oil? Slicksters or oil wells. Renewable reed fiber dreckos or reed fiber plants. 

[Meltdown]

8 hours ago, crbd115 said:

I would like a critter based option as well. One of the ones I have mentioned a few times in the past is having a rust drecko or a different critter that produces rust as a byproduct.

Well, there is a good suggestion for this one:

 

8 hours ago, crbd115 said:

I personally just like when we have multiple angles of approach for everything. Want renewable oil? Slicksters or oil wells. Renewable reed fiber dreckos or reed fiber plants.

Sadly we don't have this everywhere even in the base game *looking at you, drecko phosphorite production monopoly*

 

8 hours ago, crbd115 said:

Not as sure about this.

May I ask why? I'm genually curious about what people dislike about this suggestion.

[crbd115]

2 hours ago, Meltdown said:

May I ask why? I'm genually curious about what people dislike about this suggestion.

"Genually" The combination of generally and genuinely? Funny since both fit the sentence. 
Mostly what you said in the post about it being more of the same in terms of solving renewable resources with geysers. Yes there are two options one being more complicated but more interesting at the same time and the other being very basic. I'm just not a fan of having the game being reliant on geyser (or geyser related) features to solve renewable resources. It becomes repetitive and boring to me. Need refined metal? Use a Metal Volcano. Then just repeat this process for every resource type. It's not a bad idea or anything, I just prefer more variation or something unique. Obviously my point of having a critter metal producer also risks falling into the same problem from being repetitive as well since it follows the same logic as adding a geyser.
At least mineable meteors or meteorites on some plantetoids is different enough to just taming a geyser. I just enjoy having a few methods to approach the same problem like I said.

[Meltdown]

13 minutes ago, crbd115 said:

"Genually" The combination of generally and genuinely? Funny since both fit the sentence. 

Sorry, I thought I know how to spell this one. It's tough to gain confidence in foreign language skills while constantly using spell checkers. Among generally and genuinely, I meant the latter.

20 minutes ago, crbd115 said:

It's not a bad idea or anything, I just prefer more variation or something unique

Ok, I get your point.

By the way, I remember suggesting nuclear transformation in one older topic. Like having a machine that consumes radbolts and rocks, and outputs metal ores. But at the end of the day, you would have to tame volcano to get Igneous Rock in order to continuously feed this machine, so I'm not sure if it still counts as volcano taming solution.

[TuxSam123]

12 hours ago, sakura_sk said:

Option 3: 

 

I'm not sure about this one...

[sakura_sk]

1 minute ago, TuxSam123 said:

I'm not sure about this one...

It makes more game-sense for me than an on-off wandering comet 

[n_t_p]

1 hour ago, sakura_sk said:

It makes more game-sense for me than an on-off wandering comet 

The comet mechanics I suggested are a pretty wild departure from existing gameplay, and that is intentional. The point is to have a new gameplay experience in the game, very much unlike other parts of the game, hopefully without breaking immersion. Basically as radical as possible but stops short of a "minigame" because minigames are universally hated let's be real

[TuxSam123]

1 hour ago, sakura_sk said:

It makes more game-sense for me than an on-off wandering comet 

n_t_p has already answered this for me, so I won't say much.

What I think is the problem with the metal ore solutions is that some, like the metal salts, are "more of the same solution" to this problem.

I really like the idea of comets, they would be something which would be new in the game, but, as n_t_p said:

18 minutes ago, n_t_p said:

 The point is to have a new gameplay experience in the game, very much unlike other parts of the game, hopefully without breaking immersion.

That is, Klei could add something new and exciting to the game, and fix the problem as well.

Also, tell me, why would klei add an entirely new type of substances, buildings, and geysers to fix one single problem. Like, how would these metal salts act when vaporized or liquified? Would they turn into liquid metal salts (I also realized that there's an entire thread talking about this, so please don't post anything more about metal salts here).

1 hour ago, sakura_sk said:

It makes more game-sense for me than an on-off wandering comet 

Why? Spaced Out is literally a DLC focused on space travel.

[Lwt]

Option 1 sure. Simple designs with complex solutions = game design 101.

Option 2 sounds too convoluted. For many the name of the game in Oni is to automate everything. Having to micromanage this comet mining would become tiresome and repetitive in the long run.

[Meltdown]

30 minutes ago, TuxSam123 said:

Also, tell me, why would klei add an entirely new type of substances, buildings, and geysers to fix one single problem. Like, how would these metal salts act when vaporized or liquified? Would they turn into liquid metal salts (I also realized that there's an entire thread talking about this, so please don't post anything more about metal salts here).

If you don't want to discuss salts here anymore, would you post these questions into original discussion? So all that criticism would be in place where it could be discussed and not just remain unanswered here.

On topic of ore comets, the problem here is that it is mirco-intensitive and not automatable solution (as it was mentioned in original topic about it). As for optional meteor showers on some planetoids - I like this one. Different "space weather" is neat, and helps to bring additional challenges to planetoids that meant to be difficult.

[sakura_sk]

15 minutes ago, TuxSam123 said:

Why? Spaced Out is literally a DLC focused on space travel.

As I said (in the other thread) I don't find the "more of the same" as a negative. In that aspect, I see the comet as also "more of the same" in the scale of an asteroid this time. I would probably repeat (and probably @n_t_p wouldn't like that..) what others said about that topic. I don't find it such and extreme idea to accomplice (probably will need even more pc power to process...) but it has some major leaps that break more than one aspects of the game (buildable tile-per-tile rockets, no ground underneath map). Don't get me wrong. I don't find it a bad idea but I don't like it either.

34 minutes ago, TuxSam123 said:

Also, tell me, why would klei add an entirely new type of substances, buildings, and geysers to fix one single problem.

Because it fits the game?  (for my game-sense) Is there a single building in ONI that fixes a single problem?

As for meteor showers, I wouldn't miss them if they never came back  (I'm ok with mooteors though  )

[n_t_p]

1 hour ago, sakura_sk said:

(buildable tile-per-tile rockets, no ground underneath map)

No, no, you don't understand. The tile based rocket was just a stand-in so that the example could be loaded in base game, and to demonstrate the scale of the module. In spaced out during gameplay it would appear as a normal rocket as it does on the launch pad, just floating.

[sakura_sk]

3 minutes ago, n_t_p said:

In spaced out during gameplay it would appear as a normal rocket as it does on the launch pad, just floating.

But the "floating" is the game breaking part. No building "floats" in ONI. Everything has a very specific position because everything else (liquid/gas elements, temperature, germs, dupes/critters) moves around. They anchored rockets in launch pad (instead of the engine in base game) to make them easier to make changes in modules and not deconstruct and re-construct everything in a specific order (at least I think that was the intention...).

[n_t_p]

14 minutes ago, sakura_sk said:

But the "floating" is the game breaking part. No building "floats" in ONI. Everything has a very specific position because everything else (liquid/gas elements, temperature, germs, dupes/critters) moves around. They anchored rockets in launch pad (instead of the engine in base game) to make them easier to make changes in modules and not deconstruct and re-construct everything in a specific order (at least I think that was the intention...).

Pumps float. So do paintings. Lots of things float.

Realistically I think it'll just take spawning in a "virtual" launch pad. That'd probably be the easiest way to do it. Spawn in a launch pad and just don't draw it's sprite.

[TuxSam123]

4 hours ago, Lwt said:

Option 1 sure. Simple designs with complex solutions = game design 101.

Option 2 sounds too convoluted. For many the name of the game in Oni is to automate everything. Having to micromanage this comet mining would become tiresome and repetitive in the long run.

I agree with you. Though if Klei added some sort of interplanetary automation, option 2's problems would be fixed.

[n_t_p]

How is it even micromanagement? It's just mining. Not everything in oni is automated. Mining is not automated. There are lots of one-time tasks that you have to do manually.

Go to place. Mine thing. That's all the micromanagement there is.

[crbd115]

7 hours ago, Meltdown said:

Sorry, I thought I know how to spell this one. It's tough to gain confidence in foreign language skills while constantly using spell checkers. Among generally and genuinely, I meant the latter.

It was just meant as light humor.

5 hours ago, Lwt said:

Option 2 sounds too convoluted. For many the name of the game in Oni is to automate everything. Having to micromanage this comet mining would become tiresome and repetitive in the long run

To be fair I feel like this could be simplified quite a bit. Just have random comets that appear from time to time in the outermost ring of the space map. Have a mining module that puts the resources listed on the comet into rocket solid storage units. The base idea is still pretty solid. This way people don't have to manage mining it and there doesn't have to be a ridiculous amount of programming involved for the devs.

[Meltdown]

1 hour ago, n_t_p said:

There are lots of one-time tasks that you have to do manually.

Isn't that a point? One-time tasks are one-time, you do them and you never return to them. Mining spawning comets, however, is not "one-time". You have to do it repeatedly. And depending your base on repeating manual task is totally different from depending it on completing a finite list of one-time ones.

42 minutes ago, crbd115 said:

To be fair I feel like this could be simplified quite a bit. Just have random comets that appear from time to time in the outermost ring of the space map. Have a mining module that puts the resources listed on the comet into rocket solid storage units.

Basically, bringing back a bit of vanilla rocketry to compensate for non-renewables. Not a bad option. 

I think both original idea and mining module could fly if they are put together with a small addition:

So, the original comets may spawn and move over the map, and you can manually intercept them with rockets, manually mine, etc. Or, you can shoot them into pieces with some kind of space cannon, and collect materials from pieces with special module. Sure, some material would be lost, but the whole process could be automated. So there is that - if you need big amount of resources or just not a fan of automating things, you go for manual excavation. If you love to automate things, you go for cannon+collector route.

41 minutes ago, crbd115 said:

It was just meant as light humor.

No offenses. It was just a moment of embarrassment-based defensive reactions.

[n_t_p]

3 minutes ago, Meltdown said:

Isn't that a point? One-time tasks are one-time, you do them and you never return to them. Mining spawning comets, however, is not "one-time". You have to do it repeatedly. And depending your base on repeating manual task is totally different from depending it on completing a finite list of one-time ones.

Artifact collection would be one-time, if artifacts were on the comets. And if you're mining for resources instead of taming metal volcanoes it's probably for a reason, either because you don't know how to or don't want to tame volcanoes. The trade off for that is that it's must be done repeatedly. Both have pros and cons. Mining just takes jet suits and petrol, metal volcano taming requires steel and complex setups.

[crbd115]

2 minutes ago, n_t_p said:

metal volcano taming requires steel and complex setups.

Actually it can be really simple. All it really requires is the resources for the steam generator, insulated tiles, a bunch of water, and oil/petrol for the liquid lock. If you look up francis john has a pretty simple tutorial on it on youtube. Basically you just use enough water to act as a temperature buffer that the steam doesn't heat up enough to overheat the steam turbine and the metal cools over time.

[n_t_p]

Just now, crbd115 said:

Actually it can be really simple. All it really requires is the resources for the steam generator, insulated tiles, a bunch of water, and oil/petrol for the liquid lock. If you look up francis john has a pretty simple tutorial on it on youtube. Basically you just use enough water to act as a temperature buffer that the steam doesn't heat up enough to overheat the steam turbine and the metal cools over time.

I know how to tame volcanoes. Comet mining is supposed to be a source of more ore for people who can't, aren't ready to or don't know how.

[Meltdown]

32 minutes ago, n_t_p said:

And if you're mining for resources instead of taming metal volcanoes it's probably for a reason

Like plug slug ranching or running nuclear reactor? Both of these reasons have nothing to do with volcano taming, since they require specifically metal ore. Btw, your original post mentions the former in the list of the reasons you suggest comet mining.

[crbd115]

20 minutes ago, n_t_p said:

I know how to tame volcanoes.

I wasn't saying you can't. Just saying its not as hard as you were making it out to be.

21 minutes ago, n_t_p said:

Comet mining is supposed to be a source of more ore for people who can't, aren't ready to or don't know how.

The issue is that if they can't tame volcanoes they probably can't or wont do what your suggesting as well. Most of the people who complain that these things are too difficult are the people who are basically sitting on their main planetoid for hundreds of cycles waiting for something to push them out of their comfort zones or get the courage to try something new. A space poi that comes up once in a limited time window is something they probably wont attempt anyway until they feel comfortable. By then they probably will have attempted or figured out how to tame metal volcano.