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Seasonal/Late Start Free Items


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Why are these on by default? Making every player who joins during winter get a free rabbit earmuffs means that no one will ever have any incentive to craft it anymore. The point of rabbit earmuffs was to be crafted if you joined during winter. That was its niche. It was an easy to get item that gave you a fuzzy little bit of warmth. The same goes for the parasol. Was making this on default an oversight? Winter & Summer are HARD. Whenever i join a server during winter the first thing i do after getting grass & twigs is make a trap for rabbit earmuffs. I never do this outside of the situation where we will seemingly get a free set of earmuffs for some reason. Having to think on your feet for a minute or so to get yourself situated when you join during a hard season isn't a bad thing. I know DST is transitioning into a mindless raid-boss killing sidequest party game but this is just ridiculous. 

My only issue with the "Late Start" resources is that you only get 1 flint. If Klei is adding these features to help new players after the 'Make a Pick' biome has already been ravaged, why only 1 flint? A single flint is only useful for an axe which wont do anything on its own. 2 Flint means that you can atleast make a pickaxe which means that you can eventually get a reliable source of flint from rocks if all the flint is actually taken. If all the flint is taken their one flint will be useless, if all the flint isn't taken they'll likely find 2 flint.

Case in point Seasonal Starting items shouldn't be on by default & the Late Start items should be reevaluated. 

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I think it's good that starting seasonal items are enabled by default. It makes public games a lot more accessible for latecomers, since they no longer need to beg someone to come to the florid postern to pick them up or constantly burn/hide under trees. I don't think it really ruins the items' niche - you can still disable the option and change the starting season yourself if you want to experience early-game harsh seasons, or alternatively just... drop the item on the ground.

As for the starting resource, I agree that 1 flint is too little. I would say 3 flint would be ideal, because it lets a player craft both an axe and a pickaxe (so they don't have to choose between campfire now or science machine later), but I do think it should at least be 2 flint for a pickaxe.

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Aight- Birds drop flint, stand around for a few minutes and flint will come to you (usually only very close to starting spawn area though to help fresh joining players)

The extra spawning items I can see having a use, over on Xbox I get tired of having to drop everything I’m doing to go bring someone survival items because they were ignorant enough to attempt to join in Mid-Winter.

This will maybe make them go find their own resources and NOT rely on me to stop fighting Deerclops to come give them a Winter Hat & Thermal Stone.

Sure, it kinda defeats the purpose of Uncompromising... but in the same way I can make things easier, I can also host worlds of endless Summer without Ice as an available resource- 

What I admire most about the game is the world Gen and World Gen presets, these toggles lets your game be as easy or as hard as you PERSONALLY feel like playing it at the time.. 

There’s now going to be an option for “Tons” more shadow Monsters, but in that same section maybe “No Shadow Monsters” should exist.

People tend to forget that Klei created No Sweat Mode.... they ALSO Created Shipwrecked & Hamlet- I’m pretty certain they know a thing or two about how to provide difficulty settings that cater to the survivalists, the hardcores, the casuals, the base builders, and the folks who want more mad unpredictable chaos.

Extra starting resources is just one of those things to assist players who actually NEED it.. but I’m pretty sure you can toggle it off if you want.

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17 minutes ago, Electroely said:

I think it's good that starting seasonal items are enabled by default. It makes public games a lot more accessible for latecomers, since they no longer need to beg someone to come to the florid postern to pick them up or constantly burn/hide under trees.

Neither of these are required. You get a torch and go to base yourself like a responsible player joining in a harsh season or you can hunker down and actually make the items that you were meant to make in the exact scenario of joining during winter. Surely doing these strategies would be made easier and more effective for new players since they get their free grass and twigs. Begging for people to pick you up at the florid postern is horrible etiquette in the first place. If anything, making the free clothes off by default will be good for new players because they will be able to apply themselves when it comes to preparing with the new 5 grass and 5 twigs they start out with.

 

22 minutes ago, Electroely said:

 I don't think it really ruins the items' niche - you can still disable the option and change the starting season yourself if you want to experience early-game harsh seasons, or alternatively just... drop the item on the ground.

Having it still be a niche because "I can disable it" is nothing short of an excuse, and I plan on disabling it anyways. If that was an actual valid point there would be no problems in DST at all. Same thing goes for just dropping it on the ground. Ignoring an issue doesn't make it not an issue. 

 

26 minutes ago, Electroely said:

I would say 3 flint would be ideal, because it lets a player craft both an axe and a pickaxe (so they don't have to choose between campfire now or science machine later)

Idk. People make choices and choices have inherent consequences. That's what makes Don't Starve Together, a survival game fun. Those tough decisions are actually fun you know. I don't think it'd be a bad thing to give them 3 flint (as realistically, its only ONE flint, a very meager difference) but that mindset of getting rid of any strategy when you first join a server is probably what ignited this whole "free items" ordeal in the first place. 

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Various things.

Joining during winter is typically easier than joining day 1 if you have a good host because you already have a base set up for you. Those who join during winter only to ask you for assistance while youre busy are practicing bad etiquette and should not be catered to by default. Only difference now is that those same types of people will be able stir around at the portal for slightly longer before dying (unless you waste time picking them up from spawn of course!). My original post wasn't about personal preference, its about needlessly dumbing down the game and giving you free items in the exact situations youre supposed to craft them. The free grass and twigs aren't a step in the bad direction. They give new players something to work with so they can survive. Giving them a free set of winter clothing is just absurd. New players should be incentivised to help themselves, not get hand-held when they purposely join in a tough situation.

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Idk, free grass and twigs when you start just sounds like more Willow players getting blamed for fires they did not start.

But- At least Klei is making an effort to make the game more enjoyable for people who struggle.. you may not need those things, but other people do.

Other players could have shoveled up all nearby rabbit holes and then what? Your completely screwed when joining that world.

This Isn’t a bad thing.. your only seeing it as the game becoming easier, and just like the example I used for the “Tons” option for Shadow Monsters- it’s also getting harder at the same time.

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The thing is: resource starter is a solution to assist with the portal griefing problem. I have seen public servers when players actively dig all grass, twig, berry at the portal, cave, and sometimes the whole world just to block new players coming with the purpose of reserves slots for their group, so even if the blocking portal /tentacle has gone, players can just dig all grass and lets newcomers die of darkness.
And yes, please 2 flints or a pickaxe, one is just sadistic.

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1 hour ago, SuperMeatGoy said:

Neither of these are required. You get a torch and go to base yourself like a responsible player joining in a harsh season or you can hunker down and actually make the items that you were meant to make in the exact scenario of joining during winter. Surely doing these strategies would be made easier and more effective for new players since they get their free grass and twigs. Begging for people to pick you up at the florid postern is horrible etiquette in the first place. If anything, making the free clothes off by default will be good for new players because they will be able to apply themselves when it comes to preparing with the new 5 grass and 5 twigs they start out with.

Well, yeah, in an ideal world everything would play out so that no assistance is necessary, since there's enough resources in the world to survive starting from even mid-winter. But that doesn't stop newer players that don't really know how to do it, and often times they're just looking for a game and all the servers are either winter+ or full. Plus, servers tend to die off pretty quickly during winter so I'm glad late joiners get enough assistance to make it comfortably. Hopefully it'll be normal to join a server during any season now and expect to have a good time.

1 hour ago, SuperMeatGoy said:

Having it still be a niche because "I can disable it" is nothing short of an excuse, and I plan on disabling it anyways. If that was an actual valid point there would be no problems in DST at all. Same thing goes for just dropping it on the ground. Ignoring an issue doesn't make it not an issue. 

I would agree with you on this point about a lot of things - there's a lot of foods for example that don't have a niche because other foods do the same exact thing but better in every way (hello Fish Tacos.) But I don't really think this is that kind of issue. In fact, I think earmuffs would see more use now that players start with them rather than having to use a good portion of resources to make them (when, if they've joined an existing world, they can just go to base and find/craft a thermal stone or winter hat). I don't think this affects true winter starts either because if you're changing the starting season to winter, you'd also just change the starting equipment.

1 hour ago, SuperMeatGoy said:

Idk. People make choices and choices have inherent consequences. That's what makes Don't Starve Together, a survival game fun. Those tough decisions are actually fun you know. I don't think it'd be a bad thing to give them 3 flint (as realistically, its only ONE flint, a very meager difference) but that mindset of getting rid of any strategy when you first join a server is probably what ignited this whole "free items" ordeal in the first place. 

That's true, but remember that starting resources are supposed to be compensation for resources you missed by not joining earlier. You wouldn't normally need to make the choice between an axe and a pickaxe because you'll always find 3 flint on the ground, so why should late joiners have to make that decision? It's not really giving players a large enough amount of resources to eliminate the need to make choices entirely.

I think the starting items in general are to make the game more pleasant to newer players. I very often see players join not realizing it's winter and dying soon after if not just leaving. I can imagine that wouldn't be fun.

 

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10 hours ago, Electroely said:

Well, yeah, in an ideal world everything would play out so that no assistance is necessary, since there's enough resources in the world to survive starting from even mid-winter. But that doesn't stop newer players that don't really know how to do it, and often times they're just looking for a game and all the servers are either winter+ or full. Plus, servers tend to die off pretty quickly during winter so I'm glad late joiners get enough assistance to make it comfortably. Hopefully it'll be normal to join a server during any season now and expect to have a good time

The grass and twigs are fine but thats all anyone needs. Might as well give them a free science machine & backpack for conveniences sake as well. Might as well give them a crock pot too if they get hungry.

 

10 hours ago, Electroely said:

I would agree with you on this point about a lot of things - there's a lot of foods for example that don't have a niche because other foods do the same exact thing but better in every way (hello Fish Tacos.) But I don't really think this is that kind of issue. In fact, I think earmuffs would see more use now that players start with them rather than having to use a good portion of resources to make them (when, if they've joined an existing world, they can just go to base and find/craft a thermal stone or winter hat). I don't think this affects true winter starts either because if you're changing the starting season to winter, you'd also just change the starting equipment.

Well the issue with >90% of foods being useless just stems for very poor balance when it comes to what foods are rewarding for what reason. The balance around winter clothes (baring chest-slot items) is usually pretty sound. All of them have their place and purpose. The rabbit earmuffs place and purpose was to be crafted if you join during winter. Giving it to you for free is just artificially raising its use. If everyone started out with a Cat O' Nine tails it's usage would also rise but for the wrong reason.

 

10 hours ago, Electroely said:

That's true, but remember that starting resources are supposed to be compensation for resources you missed by not joining earlier. You wouldn't normally need to make the choice between an axe and a pickaxe because you'll always find 3 flint on the ground, so why should late joiners have to make that decision? It's not really giving players a large enough amount of resources to eliminate the need to make choices entirely.

I think the starting items in general are to make the game more pleasant to newer players. I very often see players join not realizing it's winter and dying soon after if not just leaving. I can imagine that wouldn't be fun.

When you join a server late you get a tradeoff. A base is already present for you to go to but as a tradeoff you typically have to fend for yourself for a little while. Learning to do this is usually a big step for new players & it's just proper etiquette. If anything late-joiners actually get an advantage because a base with everything they need is typically already present in the world, pampering them further is just pointless. The "newer" players who haphazardly join during winter without looking or die if someone doesnt chauffeur them to base before nightfall are the same ones that compensate for their inabilities to learn by using 50 "Quality of Life" mods and rollbacking when things don't go their way. Those people dont need help because they already have crutches. Actual noobs who are just new to game will die and learn- they get better at the game and eventually become apt to join during winter. This addition of free winter clothes caters to bad players rather than new players.

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"Starting items" may help some advanced players. May. Because, in case almost all around spawn area is pillaged/picked up clean and no Sinkholes or Wormholes are around, in Winter you will freeze if not Willow or Woodie (and by that I mean almost no twigs and grass around for 1x Torch); as for Summer, even with Straw Hat plus Pretty Parasol, in case more than 3 days passed (plus same no Sinkholes/Wormholes close-by), you will "boil alive" if trees in significant quantity aren't near (and if they are, they will go in flames sooner rather than later). For beginners/casual players/noobs such items will only delay a bit the inevitable - usually they either ditch them or not use because lack of knowledge.

But yes, as a trend for quite a long time now, this new setting only "waters down" the Survival facet of DST - as consequences of joining in harsh seasons are diminished. And that's ok, KLei caters to (bad?!) wider audiences anyway.

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1 minute ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

"Starting items" may help some advanced players. May. Because, in case almost all around spawn area is pillaged/picked up clean and no Sinkholes or Wormholes around, in Winter you will freeze if not Willow or Woodie (and by that I mean almost no twigs and grass around for a torch)

This situation has happened to me not once in years of playing. This incredibly unlikely scenario you just described is not the reason klei made this change. If this "nothing around spawn you're doomed" scenario was common it would have been fixed sooner and would have actually been considering an issue before this update happened. In fact, this scenario should already be impossible since we now get 5 twigs and 5 grass. the free winter clothes are entirely unnecessary. 

 

7 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

 as for Summer, even with Straw Hat plus Pretty Parasol, in case more than 3 days passed, you will "boil alive" if trees in significant quantity aren't close (and if they are, they will go in flames sooner rather than later).

 If you cant find a sinkhole or base in 3 days that is purely fault of either you or the host, though summer itself is a deeply flawed season in the first place.

 

9 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

But yes, as a trend for quite a long time now, this new setting only "waters down" the Survival facet of DST - as consequences of joining in harsh seasons are diminished. And that's ok, KLei caters to wider audiences.

""Klei caters to wider audiences"". Thats one way to sugarcoat it. Klei is catering to bad players at the expense of the game. They want to replace their playerbase with little kids who refuse to actually learn how to play. That is why whenever a character gets added/reworked Klei starts their ad campaign of paying kiddie youtubers to test out the character (even though sometimes they just take the money and dont even show the character). Its not going to stop at dishing out free winter clothes for those who are too lazy to get it. This is a problem that persists and is growing. 

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11 minutes ago, SuperMeatGoy said:

This situation has happened to me not once in years of playing. This incredibly unlikely scenario you just described is not the reason klei made this change. If this "nothing around spawn you're doomed" scenario was common it would have been fixed sooner and would have actually been considering an issue before this update happened. In fact, this scenario should already be impossible since we now get 5 twigs and 5 grass. the free winter clothes are entirely unnecessary. 

 

 If you cant find a sinkhole or base in 3 days that is purely fault of either you or the host, though summer itself is a deeply flawed season in the first place.

 

""Klei caters to wider audiences"". Thats one way to sugarcoat it. Klei is catering to bad players at the expense of the game. They want to replace their playerbase with little kids who refuse to actually learn how to play. That is why whenever a character gets added/reworked Klei starts their ad campaign of paying kiddie youtubers to test out the character (even though sometimes they just take the money and dont even show the character). Its not going to stop at dishing out free winter clothes for those who are too lazy to get it. This is a problem that persists and is growing. 

I disagree, does the “tons” option which now not only spawns MORE Shadow Monsters but also makes them More Difficult sound like catering to little kids to you?

The bottom line the game is getting Easier & Harder at the same exact time.

And honestly.. is that such a bad thing? Does a RockJaw shark sound like a mob put in the game for a casual newbie to attempt to whack with a common regular tree chopping axe (something I see TONS of players doing on Xbox One while fighting Spiders)

I took my best friend down into the Lunar Grotto the other day because he likes to play Woodie & chop everything in sight, I knew EXACTLY what was going to happen when he chopped down there & I waited to revive him after his unfortunate accident.. 

(I consider it as revenge for him chopping down all my decorated WintersFeast trees one year, cause when it comes to having an Infinite durability axe- No tree is safe around him)

My point? You can’t just sit and cry about things that are added to make the game easier, without also looking at the the things they have added to make it harder.

And at some point I expect Klei to stop playing around... and inject Some Shipwrecked/Hamlet features into DST-

As in: Enemies like snakes and scorpions that have a chance to spawn from the trees you chop that can and will inflict you with poisonous Damage over time bleed out effects, Entire Biomes that are Hazardous to explore without protective gear like hamlets corrupted landfield, Even things like Piko squirrels which quickly eat the acorns you would have normally used to replant a tree you just chopped..

These are things I fully expect Klei to deliver before their done with updates for this game.

But as long as Klei is willing to continue to do updates for the game: There is room for it to get easier & significantly harder at the same exact time.

I want to see ideas like “Elevated Foundations of Land” actually be added to their game and put into good use someday.

P.S. (Maybe I’m a bad friend for the whole Lunar Grotto thing.. but I got a good laugh out of it)

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21 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

Your posts are always all over the place so I'm really hesitant to even bother replying to you but the fact that things are configurable is irrelevant to the pointThe free winter clothing is on by default. This means that 99% of servers will have it on. It's a neat little feature for those who don't want to learn but for many aforementioned reasons it ought to be off by default.

Towards the end of many of your scatterbrained monologues you mention how Klei is just going to randomly add a bunch of hard features to compensate for the overdose of babying they've given the game. It's a delusion that you shoehorn into quite alot of your posts but it's not going to happen. It's really a fun way though to deny what is happening to DST by just assuming they're going to add a bunch of uncompromising features from your latest fever dream so I'll give you that.

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Do you just wake up to argue with people? I mean I’m bringing up highly valid points & your just throwing around insults because your a bit salty over some experimental features that are still in Beta.

Let us not forget that Xbox One does not have and to the best of my knowledge: Has NEVER HAD Klei Official or Dedicated Servers and Klei has very specifically stated that these settings will not apply to private worlds.. so If your playing on Xbox guess what? Unless they randomly decide to add these servers of which I’m 96.6% certain we’ve never had: Then it’s something that won’t ever even apply to your version of the game.

I see A LOT of features being teased and shown off for this upcoming QoL update but many of which I highly doubt will make it into the console edition of the game.

Your arguments are:

if you join in summer you should find the nearest caves entrance to avoid dying, and use any nearby trees to avoid overheating till you can make it to said cave: But what if all the trees between your spawning location and the nearest sinkhole have been chopped & removed?

all it takes is a single whirly fan to survive Summer in an emergency.. so why are you so upset about free Straw Hats? I’m pretty sure you get one of those from the failed survivor at Oasis 100% of the time.

If you join in Winter: Your Argument is players should know how to find sticks, grass, and build a trap to catch rabbits to create Rabbit Earmuffs (which used to be locked behind first learning their crafting recipe but was later made Craftable outside of needing to prototype first) or to craft a torch and burn a few loose things to stay warm.

But yet again your not factoring all plucked/relocated/destroyed resources.

all it takes is a single shovel to dig up rabbit holes and you go right back to having no Rabbit Earmuffs when spawning in Mid-Winter.

by the way it’s RABBIT EARMUFFS it’s not like they gave players free Beefalo Hats, a pre-crafted Campfire & Thermal Stone when spawning in in Winter, Although I’m pretty certain that Single Player Dont Starve’s Campaign Mode always spawned the player in with nearby pre-crafted things like all of the above.

Now- before you even reply to this, let me just state that there was always ALWAYS since the day DST launched for my console: an option to host worlds with “Extra Starting Resources” this provides the player with a health supply of foods to start out with, pre-crafted 100% durability Shovel, Axe, Pickaxe, Spear, Some Gunpowder, Enough Grass, Sticks, Rocks and Gold to build a Stone Campfire & Science Machine with.

So honestly? Your just complaining for the sake of complaining. But that’s just my opinion: Perhaps others will disagree.

 

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2 hours ago, SuperMeatGoy said:

This situation has happened to me not once in years of playing. This incredibly unlikely scenario you just described is not the reason klei made this change. If this "nothing around spawn you're doomed" scenario was common it would have been fixed sooner and would have actually been considering an issue before this update happened. In fact, this scenario should already be impossible since we now get 5 twigs and 5 grass. the free winter clothes are entirely unnecessary.

I'm writing about "starting items" concept as a whole - default inventory resources included: in case you missed it, am against such idea completely. No seasonal clothes and no resources (twigs, grass, flint or otherwise). Even if is not, in-game tag-line still postulates "an uncompromising wilderness survival game full of science and magic". Now yet another compromise was made: hand-outs for people willing to start in harsh seasons, but unable to actually survive for various reasons, most common by far being lack of knowledge. If one wants to go "buck naked" into Winter, one should be prepared for such action's consequences. Either by dying or knowing what to do so first scenario is avoided.

And no, having spawn "stripped of resources" is not uncommon, not by a mile - btw, by "stripped or resources" I mean picked grass and saplings, not dug up. I don't know what rooms you've been playing, but on EU Survival pubs going for a Winter start-challenge on dedicated servers aka Survival pubs and finding precisely 0 resources around Florid Postern and adjacent areas is the norm. Plus yes, it was a raised issue in past. If, as per example, you go into a Survival Pub in Winter and find nothing around spawn to make a torch for warmth, as a non-Willow/non-Woodie, you are doomed. Visit more pubs for such challenge now, before the "hand out" starting resources update goes live, to experience described scenario if not already.

 

2 hours ago, SuperMeatGoy said:

If you cant find a sinkhole or base in 3 days that is purely fault of either you or the host, though summer itself is a deeply flawed season in the first place.

Let me picture the proposed setup better: is not 3 days before Summer. Is 3 days (or more) INTO summer. In the live-servers' present conditions, not current beta test: when you don't have any resource in inventory spawning in, aka no "Seasonal/Late Start items AND resources". As you know, Grass Tufts wither from heat in presented scenario. Saplings alike. You won't be able to make Straw Hat or Pretty Parasol; probably not even a Whirly Fan (if Twiggy Trees aren't present and/or Flowers have been picked). If a Cave entrance or Wormhole aren't close for rapid access, you are pretty much doomed even navigating under trees. Host or player aren't to be blamed. Host is not obliged to rescue you (or spawn such structures and items if that's what you mean) and is your responsibility to survive if you chose to go for a Summer start in this case.

 

Once more: I for one don't fancy this new setup, with "Seasonal/Late Start Free Items AND resources". Even if not with a lot, as a principle it subtracts for DST's Survival aspect - a trend that continues for quite some time. Slipping more-and-more into "social tea party with friends, pets and decorations".

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1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

if you join in summer you should find the nearest caves entrance to avoid dying, and use any nearby trees to avoid overheating till you can make it to said cave: But what if all the trees between your spawning location and the nearest sinkhole have been chopped & removed?

yeah. thats pretty much the strategy, if you can't find base. Summer itself is a poorly-designed season due to it being difficult to gain coolness and combined with the fact that the strawhat has other uses besides crafting it merely for if you join in summer i dont think getting one free is a big deal. I think its negligible and kind of stupid but its summer so idrm. If somehow all trees half-a-world from spawn are already taken down youre in the wrong world.

 

10 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

If you join in Winter: Your Argument is players should know how to find sticks, grass, and build a trap to catch rabbits to create Rabbit Earmuffs (which used to be locked behind first learning their crafting recipe but was later made Craftable outside of needing to prototype first) or to craft a torch and burn a few loose things to stay warm.

Yes. This is entirely reasonable and plausible. The rabbit earmuffs became craftable outside of the science machine SO THEY COULD BE CRAFTED QUICKLY IF YOU JOINED DURING WINTER. Too bad that change is now entirely in vain. Rabbit Earmuffs were never required to be made but it was a cool thing to make once you had the materials for a trap (which 19/20 times youre able to find more than a healthy amount of grass and twigs to make one anyways).

 

15 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

But yet again your not factoring all plucked/relocated/destroyed resources.

How? On the off-chance that every single bit of grass and twig are ravaged from the map you still have your 5 grass and 5 twigs you spawn with. Thats more than enough to easily venture out and get situated. I dont actually dissaprove of the 'Late Start' resources.

 

16 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Now- before you even reply to this, let me just state that there was always ALWAYS since the day DST launched for my console: an option to host worlds with “Extra Starting Resources” this provides the player with a health supply of foods to start out with, pre-crafted 100% durability Shovel, Axe, Pickaxe, Spear, Some Gunpowder, Enough Grass, Sticks, Rocks and Gold to build a Stone Campfire & Science Machine with.

What? Ok? 

 

Your only point is that they added world options that make things harder (which is totally relevant to what I originally said and its not like world options completely trivialize or chaoticise worlds anyways. By the same logic that you can now set shadow creatures to "Tons", I could also just turn them off now. Its an irrelevant argument).

I digress though you can continue to live in borderline-schizophrenic fantasy land with poison and snakes and pikos and the new superdeath-radioactive biome that I need a fallout mech-suit to explore. 

3 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

snip

Yeah pretty much. They've wanted this since 2019 but they're finally getting to actually babying up the game.

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