Space Stations

[darknotezero]

It'd be neat to include the ability to build space stations on empty squares on the starmap. To not make space stations OP, a space station's purpose could be limited to singular purposes, which would demand a balance of which ones you choose and why.

Space Station options could include:

1. An automation bridge station to boost the range of automation signals that can travel between planetoids (which would work in conjunction with my "automation beacon" suggestion.

2. A matter transporter bridge station to allow teleportation of gas/liquid/solids from two planetoids who would otherwise be out of range from each other. This would necessitate the ability for dupes to build their own teleporters, which could either be added to the research tree or set as something they learn from "analyzing" prefab teleporters.

3. A dupe teleporter bridge station similar to the above

4. A refueling dock to increase the range/ability of rocket travel without having to solely rely upon how the rocket is designed from point of origin.

5. A Space Waystation that's just a place for dupes to chill out. Build a space espresso bar and arcade room and beds and such to increase morale before moving on to their actual planetoid destination.

[babba]

6. Power Grid Distribution - Idea to make Space Station(s) the distributors of an galaxy wide electricity power network

7. Water Grid Distribution - Idea to make Space Station(s) the distributors of an galaxy wide water network

However, we also need threats for these hubs, to avoid that its an idle and boring endgame. For these hub threats, the players also need the tools to counter these threats in a fun way. The game should not end in tedious micromanagement, neither should it be an boring idle clicker endgame.

Mhhh mhhh it will have fans and not-fans of this idea... but what about a space gang of rogue dupes or aliens attempting to overtake those galaxy hubs from time to time ? Such a threat could scale in view of the actual current players capacity and one has to setup defenses and manufacture ammo and weapons. All action of course within the cute art style and playfulness fun of the game. Would also make for another dlc, so that Klei has the cash to further work on the game over the years.

[babba]

Randomly I saw this activity in Klei`s Hot Lava Game forum section.

People are asking in other Klei games for similar things...what people are asking for in ONi

 

[babba]

If a player would be able to build a Space Station...and if that is a big high-end resource effort, this could be an entry point to stage some threats to the players ONi colonies. Imagine such an mood and audio track in ONi, for those who would like to see some endgame threats for the own established and well running colonies -> Falling Frontier

The Space Station itself could consist of multiple configurable modules which can be built, similar to the existing rocket system in ONi.

@darknotezero I love your great ideas

[AndreyKl]

On 12/26/2020 at 8:54 PM, darknotezero said:

A matter transporter bridge station to allow teleportation of gas/liquid/solids from two planetoids who would otherwise be out of range from each other. This would necessitate the ability for dupes to build their own teleporters, which could either be added to the research tree or set as something they learn from "analyzing" prefab teleporters.

That's sounds like an interesting way to balance rocket transportation and 'item teleportation'. At the moments 'teleporters' win over automated rockets in almost everything short range (unless your rockets travel with 80t of resources per trip) and long range. Imposing range limitations onto item warping and adding complicated ways to boost that range sounds nice.

P.S. But personally I would prefer to not have item teleportation at all unless it's stupidly energy intensive.

On 12/26/2020 at 8:54 PM, darknotezero said:

A refueling dock to increase the range/ability of rocket travel without having to solely rely upon how the rocket is designed from point of origin.

I do like the idea, but I feel that this will be all kinds of overpowered if coupled with 'matter teleportation' or if stations will have too much space inside. It's one thing if you need to refuel your refueling station, it's another if it simply sits there, unmanned and always has resources.

Station that is too large will allow fitting in some kind of 'fuel generation' system, which will make range effectively unlimited regardless of present technologies (high tier rockets will be irrelevant). Having stations that need external, non-teleportation based refueling will at least add maintenance/economical strain - while it will be theoretically possible to chain multiple refueling stations to reach to any destination, each following station will be more expensive to maintain making chaining impractical and leaving up 'space' for higher tier rockets.  

On 12/26/2020 at 10:02 PM, babba said:

However, we also need threats for these hubs, to avoid that its an idle and boring endgame. For these hub threats, the players also need the tools to counter these threats in a fun way.

Another approach (in case we do get stations):

• Each hex on map should have some kind of radiation rating and meteorite size, meteorite heat rating
• There should be very rare hexes with meteorite based resources (ices, metals)
• Only couple tiles on map should have low radiation and low meteorite size, speed, temperature. Everything else should make maintaning stations unfeasible (via damage, heat or radiation).
• Most hexes should be stupidly complicated to survive through on permanent basis

Goal: to limit amount of stations by providing very limited amount of spots where it is practical to build those, otherwise players will spam whole map with stations till their CPU dies. Alternative to volcanoes and general increase for complexity when setting up stations.  

On 12/26/2020 at 10:02 PM, babba said:

but what about a space gang of rogue dupes

Personally I would rather not have any dupe-violence in game, triggerable or not triggerable. There are better options for triggerable threats (local 'earthquakes', illness for critters, critter outbreaks, volcanoes emitting 'weird/drowsy/slow/panic' gases).

P.S. Dupe-violence is not ONI style.

[AliBob]

I'm loving this idea! I agree, the convenience of having a waystation / transport hub should have a lot of drawbacks!

I'm not a big fan of the hostile dupe invasion gimmick though. I bet it'll end up like like Rimworld; cheese'ing the AI, find the optimal killbox, pull back and autopilot, till you can get back to doing the fun stuff, like making "hats" *Evil grin*

58 minutes ago, AndreyKl said:

...

Another approach (in case we do get stations):

• Each hex on map should have some kind of radiation rating and meteorite size, meteorite heat rating
• There should be very rare hexes with meteorite based resources (ices, metals)
• Only couple tiles on map should have low radiation and low meteorite size, speed, temperature. Everything else should make maintaning stations unfeasible (via damage, heat or radiation).
• Most hexes should be stupidly complicated to survive through on permanent basis

This idea sounds like a lot of fun. Fighting against the environment, was what drew me into this game in the first place.

 

EDIT: syntax

[babba]

9 minutes ago, AliBob said:

I'm loving this idea! I agree, the convenience of having a waystation / transport hub should have a lot of drawbacks!

I'm not a big fan of the hostile dupe invasion gimmick though. I bet it'll end up like like Rimworld; cheese'ing the AI, find the optimal killbox, pull back and autopilot, till you can get back to doing the fun stuff, like making "hats" *Evil grin*

This idea sounds like a lot of fun. Fighting against the environment, was what drew me into this game in the first place.

 

EDIT: syntax

I am a fan of catering for everyone, so in terms of endgame threats - If people are aware that they can trigger something with a conscious decision, to prepare, counter and then try to "win" against that triggered threat...Then it would cater for both factions:

"The Chillers" and the "Threat Demander`s"

Chilling in ONi

[AliBob]

As the old saying goes; "If you cater to everyone, you'll end up pleasing no one".

In this case however, I'd have to agree! More choices are always better. If there were some kind of trigger event that you had to do / build / engage in, I see no drawbacks. This idea gets better and better.

[pether]

If there were space stations in the game, each would require its own map. Therefore, number of the stations has to be constant, because what would happen if there was allocated map area for X stations and player created station number X+1? I'm not sure if dynamic grid expansion would be a good idea and would probably change too much for existing code to achieve something, that IMO is not worth the investment.

Therefore I think players should not be able to create new space stations.

But I like the idea, so maybe there could be one, abandoned station somewhere in the space and player had to discover it and colonise in order to move it to different space hex. There could be some ancient high tech devices (similar to AETN, teleports, warpers) that could be found nowhere else, and that could allow the station to be used in high-tech designs.

Also, I'd feel much more safer if I could move my radioactive research somewhere far from my dupes living/working areas. You know, just in case... 

[AliBob]

3 hours ago, pether said:

...

Therefore, number of the stations has to be constant, because what would happen if there was allocated map area for X stations and player created station number X+1? I'm not sure if dynamic grid expansion would be a good idea and would probably change too much for existing code to achieve something, that IMO is not worth the investment.

...

The easy way to circumvent that would to allow us a hard number, like one station. Maybe we find the 'shielding gizmo' on the furthest out asteroid.

 

But after spending more then 10 secs thinking about it, I'd have to disagree with that idiot from yesterday:

15 hours ago, AliBob said:

..

More choices are always better. If there were some kind of trigger event that you had to do / build / engage in, I see no drawbacks.

...

There are plenty of drawbacks, sadly. For starters: Why would you let an invasion happen in the first place? We are talking about hostile dupes/critters, that could potentially ruin delicate buildings, and mess with hard to find resources. Not to mention the rebuilding if things went sideways.

The first couple of times, I'd be for the novelty, to *flex* about it, and to satisfy the curiosity critter living in our heads. After that it'd be for the loot. But if it were a choice, it can't be... tier 38 research points. If that were the case, there is no choice - you have to do it to progress. So it has to be something nice and cool, but ultimately irrelevant. Would anyone settle for a shiny deco item? I doubt that. More 'shielding gizmos'? Then we run into the optimization problems from above. More iron/gold? We got volcanoes for that, and they are risk free... after you've tamed them, obviously. We all know that Klei would never let them drop meat. This isn't the 'Mad Hatter Company' of the Rim. I see Klei's style more like... Monsters Inc. They critters might look dangerous, but they are all fuzzy and adorable, when you get to know them.

 

I'm going to stand by my statement of more choices, but in this case, I sense a pandoras box in the horizon.

 

EDIT:

Silly sidenote; I'd find it incredibly hilarious if 'gravity' didn't function normally, like on our asteroids.  We would still be able to walk on the floor(or maybe use special magnetic flooring / forcing the use of jetpacks?), but gasses and liquids would 'fall' towords center of mass, instead of down. I'd imagine a lot of funky builds arising from that

 

The never ending calculations, from adding another 200kg sandstone tile would probably kill every machine outside of the Googleplex(Google's HQ, not the number Googolplex), but a dupe can dream

[babba]

More choices, more challenges,some threats for players which find the "final final final 2023 endgame" too boring,more everything !