Spaced out alpha feedback - pether

[pether]

Hey KLEI!

I'm so glad that the DLC is near and I had this great opportunity to participate in alpha!

For every bug I found I opened ticket in the tracker, but I believe you would like to know players' feedback and feelings on other things that bugs. I think I played enough to provide such feedback. Many players write what they think about each feature and change, I decided to do the opposite: define my oppinion first and then connect new features to it. This way it should be easier for you to see what I love and what I don't.

If I ever had any new thoughts (most probably after patches and additions to the alpha) I will edit main post, but I will specify what was added to it in posts below it.

 I Love it! This is really good direction, don't stop doing similar things! 

Spoiler

- Great mods included into the game!
- Creatures with unique abilities (plug slugs, grubgrubs)
- Symbiotic relations between critters and plants
- Plants with unique abilities (carnivorous trap plant)
- Plant morphs (grubfruits)
- POI that encourage you to build your base around them (teleports, warpers)
- More usage for sulfur and seeds
- New unique biomes with their own experiece and challenges
- New negative dupe traits, their animations
- Typical ONI humor in the new buildings, animations, names etc
- New and unique generation patterns for new worlds (like giant chasms full of chlorine)

 I like it, good idea! 

Spoiler

- Ability to play space without 100 cycles of telescope setup
- I can setup beach chair directly on the sun now without constant regolith issues!
- Rockets can be now designed at once.
- Nice space map, I like the new space idea.
- Asteroid colonisation - there is always something to do, even if I wait for big project to be finished in my main base. No more boring waiting
- Great feeling comming with lone exploration of new worlds
- Oxygen mask stations idea (more of those later, unfortunately...)
- Mud as a mixture of known elements
- As a byproduct of inter-asteroid travel and huge morale drop, dupes can at last have stress issues. I finally saw stress reaction in this game!
- It feels nice when you roll duplicant with additional high-tier skill
- Negative traits for pO2 or Chlorine exposure

 I think you should consider some changes here... 

Spoiler

- Can we please have real-world time printed on the screen?
- Tech tree could be overhauled - now some early game techs are useless and I feel bad I must waste my time on them.
- I don't like vertical size of the tech tree
- New rockets are better than old ones, but can be still confusing - I don't understand how their stats work (what does balance change), why selected crew doesn't enter the ship?
- Sleeping plug slugs are rendered behind everything else. It looks strange when they are behind wires, they are totally lost behind logic gates
- No renewable mid-game source of sulfur and ores makes it hard to sustain slugs and grubs ranches (I assume this is temporal alpha thing)
- Warpers would use single logic ribon port (input for in-warp and output for out-warp buildings)
- Currently many buildings are useless - no natural gas for advanced kitchen or power plants, etc (I assume this is temporal alpha thing)
- When designing rocket insides, we should be able to exit this mode with Right Mouse Button or Escape button.
- New biomes seem empty and lacking at the moment. Most of existing ones have 2 critters and 3 or more plants. New biomes have 1 of each... (I assume this is alpha thing)
- I'd love to see old critters (and plants?) morphs related to new content (I assume this is temporal alpha thing)
- I don't see how can I find artifacts now (I assume this is temporal alpha thing)
- As much as I hated dangerous meteor showers, I miss renewable regolith source - maybe some more dangerous asteroids with those?
- I'd love to see some buildings with limited in-game functionality but with great esthetc value (decor items so my dupes had nice rooms, windows, etc)
- Maybe new dupes? We could thawn somebody totally new for the game in the 2nd asteroid, with new looks
- I miss Pliers tool

 OMG I am so mad at those, KLEI please! Do something! 

Spoiler

- All POI items that no longer serve their purpose should be deconstructable (so all with exception of AETNs, teleporters, warpers etc)
- Hospital buildings and tech tree have no impact on the game. Especially, early game would benefit from the need of them. In 2020 I'd like to have some meaningful victories against dangerous germs. Lethality or dupe quarantine for a few cycles would greatly increase fun and challenge (difficulty could be adjustable in options)
- As much as I like oxygen station idea, it's current implementation makes it too expensive and complicated to be ever used
- Missing rooms for laboratories and kitchen. In addition we could have some additional rooms, those are always nice

 

[goetzjam]

@pether

 

Quote

Currently many buildings are useless - no natural gas for advanced kitchen or power plants, etc

You know you could easily make enough nat gas for your kitchen by using a building you probably havent before.

 

Fertilizer Synthesizer

 

The starting map should have an unending supply of polluted water, you have a decent amount of dirt to start (especially if you dig up or convert other stuff into regular dirt.   As far as Phosphorite goes you can find an ok amount in the starting biome and some more I believe in the second one and ship it over.   If you can get Drecko, either from printer or shipping eggs back, you can setup a ranch that doesn't take anything but dupe labor to sustain, just put both chlorine (from bleachstone and hydrogen, well you want that for fiber, not important for phosphorite) into the room.

 

While this won't last "forever" this will last until you get atmo suits and setup a base at second location to get crude and instead of refining it over there, pump it back to the main base and use that byproduct of refinement for your kitchen instead.

[pether]

5 minutes ago, goetzjam said:

You know you could easily make enough nat gas for your kitchen by using a building you probably havent before.

Fertilizer Synthesizer

You are right, I haven't.

I don't know if that fixes the issue, I'm not even sure if that is an issue and if it is - weather it is big one. But your point is valid, I might check this path next time

All this talking about kitchen equipment reminded me about another big issue - no rooms for labs and kitchens. Adding those to my lists

[Steve8]

I'd love to see old critters (and plants?) morphs related to new content (I assume this is temporal alpha thing)

Someone posted a picture of a shinebug morph that eats uranium

[goetzjam]

11 minutes ago, Steve8 said:

 

 

Someone posted a picture of a shinebug morph that eats uranium byproduct right?

 

[spkthed]

You could merge both rooms into a generic 'industrial' room, where generic utility stations could get a bonus of some kind.

Also, I really, REALLY prefer this as it is re: things being missing in the Alpha. I *love* the concept of needing a bunch of worlds all transferring material (trading) to each other to finally unlock late-game concepts.

[JahwsUF]

I pretty much agree with the first two sections.  Great job so far, Klei, in those regards.

I do have some additional thoughts:

I love it!

• The new Swamp start biome is a great idea, and I love how the mechanics introduced to go along with it help to fill in a signficant base-game gap.
  • In particular, I've been looking forward to the Sublimation Station for a very long time.
  • The challenges feel pretty distinct from both Terra and Forest starts while still being legitimate challenges on a first playthrough.   Seriously, fantastic job pulling that off!
• Multiple smaller maps
  • This makes it way easier to create specialized areas and bases than what we saw before.
  • I can tell it'll create new logistical challenges, with a need to set up a logistical network to transfer resources among the bases.
  • I'm pretty sure this also comes with technical & performance benefits on the backend, which can't hurt... and which are likely far more easy to parallelize for multi-core than a single, large, and unified map.

I like it / good idea!

• While I initially didn't like the lack of some familiar critters I've come to rely upon, simply relocating them to other asteriods within the cluster is a good idea and a great motivator to actually visit those other maps.  (I love ranching, so I gotta catch 'em all.)
  • Hatches and Pokeshells are a pretty good choice for the second map, as both definitely help with industrialization.
  • I recognize why Dreckos are being pushed much further down the line; the morph is often used to fully bypass the Polymer Press.
• The start world's new biomes are almost good as they are.
  • The one complaint:  please give us a lot more Cobalt Ore if you're serious about us using Plug Slugs for a significant amount of time.  So far, I'm jumping straight from Manual Generators to Solar Panels.  (I do appreciate the excuse to aim for the Super Sustainable achievement, though.)
  • So far, I think the Sulfur quantity is the Wasteland biome is fine.  Sweetles don't exactly guzzle the stuff if ranched in moderation, so the stash looks to last long enough to reach Sour Gas Boiler tech... especially since there's that Niobium asteroid I've been hearing about.

After OP's first two points, though... I have some different thoughts and opinions.

Please consider changes:

• Right now, things are very awkwardly gated behind Reed Fiber.
  • Causes:
    • My ruins gave me just one Warm Sweater (+2 cool vest, +1 snazzy) and two carpet tiles.
    • The current start world is surprisingly cold:  hypothermia's striking pretty often.
    • Atmo Suits aren't very available, so Scalding is an issue, too.
    • Jet Suits are more accessible than Atmo Suits.  That seems all kinds of backwards.
    • Though... the lack of practical Oil access means it's hard to actually get Petroleum, which also gates Plastic.
  • Suggestions:
    • Rather than suggest major changes to the current maps, though... please consider adding a few extra Reed Fiber sources to ruins.  Like, adding just four extra carpet tiles (+4 reed fiber) would make a world of difference.
    • It's fine to keep the supply limited, but please make sure we can at least equip our Duplicants.  It seems wrong to force a player to accept frequent harsh debuffs in order to make progress
• I agree that rocket stats aren't exactly clear - the heck is "burden"?  I hear that we're capped at 4 modules, which doesn't even approach 50 (engine power), so it's not clear what's going on there.
• Sucrose sees limited use right now.  I doubt it will be end-game rocket tech, which is its current main use.
  • Sulfur's still a bit limited, but at least Sweetle feeding is a scalable, long-term expenditure.  It's "enough" now - so great work on that part.
• Oxygen mask station needs work... but enough others have harped on that point already.

[Steve8]

8 hours ago, JahwsUF said:

• • • The current start world is surprisingly cold:  hypothermia's striking pretty often

That doesn't come so much from the cold, but the water. I think something was changed there. Even walking through 20°C water drains body heat very quickly. At the beginning dupes will go for a lot of swims or just walk through puddles of water, so they get hypothermia often

[KonfigSys]

On 11/28/2020 at 3:08 PM, Steve8 said:

That doesn't come so much from the cold, but the water. I think something was changed there. Even walking through 20°C water drains body heat very quickly. At the beginning dupes will go for a lot of swims or just walk through puddles of water, so they get hypothermia often

it is logical. People survive in -40C for hours but die in around zero water quickly without proper protection.