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Clifford W.

Stalker Bones (Ancient Fuelweaver) Blockade

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x0-VERSUS-1y    6650
1 hour ago, gaymime said:

it may be common but this thread is the first(and only) time i've heard about it

 

Quick search in General Discussion forums for title-only:

* hey-word "griefing"; hey-word "grief"; hey-word "griefer"; hey-word "griefers".

 

Quick search in General Discussion forums for title and comments:

* hey-word "griefing"; hey-word "grief"; hey-word "griefer"; hey-word "griefers".

 

Quick search in DST's Steam General Discussions forums for "grief" (including deleted posts).

 

Also there are 2 major things to consider: one, only a small minority of players from total player-base actually visits Steam and Klei Forums (most don't even know these exist or care about them for that matter), and from those a tiny fraction actually posts comments - thus only a very-very small portion of theoretical griefing reports out there in the wild total server population transpires here. Plus second, and I find this a bit troubling: it appears topics and comments get hidden or deleted in here/Klei forums for various reasons, most probably valid ("sensible" dissension-inducing ones) - yet griefing appears to be included to a certain degree. For example my starting posts when I came on these forums over 3 years ago were about the griefing problem at that time (mentioned previously in this topic) - yet even in my profile's comments history I can't find them. Perhaps grifing as a topic of discussion is something not to KLei's liking (if one looks at DST trailer, even in there one can see a Willow burning some base, thus one can conclude griefing is tolerated and even encouraged as "a valid way to have fun in this game" - and would explain why this aspect of DST hasn't been solved for over 4-6 years).

 

PS: you can make a simple experiment yourself, on your personal server or on a KLei dedicated one - make a base relatively close to spawn (or even better, at spawn), properly developed one (not just a Firepit, Science Machine and Crock Pot - although most low-effort griefers would go for these as well) and live there. More so: signal said base with Moon Orb and/or other Lunar Lens. Live there and see what happens over the days/seasons.

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JazzyGames    837

I agree this is super messed up but asking Klei to modify a game mechanic will not solve the problem of griefers on public servers. Like other commentors have said, there are countless ways to grief the portal area and if you take away one method they will just find another. For Klei to comprehensively revamp game mechanics for the purpose of anti-griefing seems to me less important than ensuring these mechanics are suited to actual gameplay.

Here's how I avoid griefing:
1) Don't play on public servers. Or if I do, just think of it as a throwaway that I could be unceremoniously booted from at any time
2) Play by myself - no shame there.
3) Set up a community server with anti-griefing mods installed, such as Camp Security.

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gaymime    4636
2 hours ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

 

snip

not only have i without issue but this also doesn't take away what i said by any margin. i've built small camps and bases in public servers and not once has anyone burned or destroyed anything though, in one instance i did come back to a base that had more tools and materials than when i had left it the year before. the person(s) who were there contributed to winter-proofing whereas i had only made it a summer hideaway from the sun

 

telling me that you've seen others talk about being griefed in this very specific way, in essence, is not relevant to my statement as it does not affect whether or not i have seen it and does not negate the fact that this is my first time coming across it in the forums.

 

1 hour ago, JazzyGames said:

snip

 

i've occasionally seen camp security in some of the social servers and i do not play there under any circumstance. while i get how it is viable in pvp or chaos mode it kind of makes it untenable to play in any cooperative sense since each new person has to make all their own things somewhere which doesn't instill a sense of community or even basic socializing and give players the mindset that they must horde and squirrel otherwise they get nothing and will die even if that means taking it from others and ravaging the world

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x0-VERSUS-1y    6650
11 minutes ago, gaymime said:

not only have i without issue but this also doesn't take away what i said by any margin. i've built small camps and bases in public servers and not once has anyone burned or destroyed anything though, in one instance i did come back to a base that had more tools and materials than when i had left it the year before. the person(s) who were there contributed to winter-proofing whereas i had only made it a summer hideaway from the sun

 

telling me that you've seen others talk about being griefed in this very specific way, in essence, is not relevant to my statement as it does not affect whether or not i have seen it and does not negate the fact that this is my first time coming across it in the forums.

Probably true for your personal experience at the moment (not seeing griefing yourself in worlds you've played doesn't mean it didn't occur, just that you may not have stumbled upon it), and depending on how many hours you've spent in DST pubs (like KLei official ones) from your total DST hours it may be that you were lucky. But there's still time to experience this aspect of them pubs with their consequences. I pointed at amount of "griefing" references in these forums, and Steam's alike to underline it as an existing issue (as OP did). If wasn't a problem, you wouldn't get even the mentioning of it on forums. How big of a problem it is.. that's a matter of debate. In EU servers I would say is pretty consistent (Clouds and his bots are quite famous).

If you truly are interested in magnitude of DST griefing, ask for player numbers in ban lists from any of these (biggest DST) communities (with a lot of active servers): Diverse Survivors, Slightly Tilted, How To Survive.

 

Why all this blabbering from me regarding this issue? Simple: because comments like yours imply DST griefing is not a problem or if it is, is very-very marginal and KLei should leave things as they are just because. Griefing is a main factor why people begin to be fearful, distrustful, abrasive a.s.o. in Social and Co-Op servers.

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Well-met    4893

all that stuff that blocks people at the portal is also used to block mobs and giants into a helpless state. fixing them would be 2 birds 1 stone. Everybody wins.

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x0-VERSUS-1y    6650
5 minutes ago, Well-met said:

all that stuff that blocks people at the portal is also used to block mobs and giants into a helpless state. fixing them would be 2 birds 1 stone. Everybody wins.

Most efficient player-killing trap (via certain-kill score per time unit) is a rectangle of Stone Walls and 2-3 On Tentacle reads. Only a quick-on-reflexes Wortox (or one already knowing about an existing trap) may escape in time (if no high ping is involved, over 100-150).

Method in OP's post can actually trap a limited number of people; after a small density of corpses is piled new players are pushed outside, thus not very efficient if your main goal is mass spawn auto-killing in non-PVP servers.

Main culprits of your pointed "cheesing" methods are Fossils and Lure Plants. No one makes Wall of Lure Plants at spawn - 1 is sufficient to kill players via Eyes. And these 2 culprits are mainly used in AFw "ez pz" takedown. Plus a lot of farms. I imagine a load of people will be upset if suddenly their farms would be invalidated. But puritans, elitists and "try-hards" would probably jubilate, as most of them are in for pure survival and fighting, not sandbox base-building with elaborate farms.

 

On the flip side: a simple 1-default-screen circle around spawn (and smaller circles around Touchstones, let's say 5 tiles in diameter) in which one isn't able to place Fossils, Walls, Lure Plants, Spider Eggs (seems all of commentators here forgot about this griefing method that no-collision would do nothing about), summon Tentacles would be a most-elegant solution. And yes, this would affect quite a lot griefers and griefing potential with little to none easy/moderate alternatives.

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JazzyGames    837
7 hours ago, gaymime said:

i've occasionally seen camp security in some of the social servers and i do not play there under any circumstance. while i get how it is viable in pvp or chaos mode it kind of makes it untenable to play in any cooperative sense since each new person has to make all their own things somewhere which doesn't instill a sense of community or even basic socializing and give players the mindset that they must horde and squirrel otherwise they get nothing and will die even if that means taking it from others and ravaging the world

I've run CS on my community server on dozens of DST maps. My experience has not been that of a group of players hoarding every resource imaginable. What usually happens is there will be a main community base where new players can get situated and older players can contribute resources. There will be farms running constantly that generate most needed resources so there is no scarcity. I typically dedicate my in-game time to improving community base, as do many others.

Then most players will go off and start their own private bases, sometimes locking up a handful of their chests for personal items they do not want to be a community resource. This actually motivates me to do more gathering if I have a project in mind and can rest assured knowing that the resources I gather in one session will be there for me to use to build in the next session.

This system is complimented with a Discord server dedicated to coordination among server players, and in my experience it works exceptionally well. People do not hoard resources if there are plenty to go around; and we are there to play with each other so it makes no sense to lock up every resource imaginable.

I understand your misgivings about the ability to lock stuff up, but I think you will find that the majority of players are comfortable in a community where they share most of their resources and keep a few to themselves. There's a world of possibilities between Communism and an Ayn Rand paradise.

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CaRat    163

Make the placement thicker it solves many issues. You cant trap people with the bones if they have to be spaced farther.

 You cant trap people with spider dens if they cant be placed right next to each other.

You cant use lure plants if they have to be spaced like berry bushes.

This solves the problem AND people still get their base at spawn.

Also Make the on tentacles not be able to spawn near the florid posturn.

For the skeleton trap just make all skeletons have to be at least half a ground tile away from each other

Sidenote:20200714_175846.thumb.png.4755aeeaed5b8f35515d123122880518.png

You could have haunted the hammer to wilson for a SMASHING result (pun not intended)

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DaZoul    2114
On 7/14/2020 at 3:33 AM, Viktor234 said:

Bruh, calling clueless players rats ain't very friendly: There'll be always players who'll join an almost empty server during autumn, especially because it's autumn.

I didnt call nobody a rat. It's an expression.

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x0-VERSUS-1y    6650
21 hours ago, Webber is bes said:

Make the placement thicker it solves many issues. You cant trap people with the bones if they have to be spaced farther.

 You cant trap people with spider dens if they cant be placed right next to each other.

You cant use lure plants if they have to be spaced like berry bushes.

This solves the problem AND people still get their base at spawn.

Also Make the on tentacles not be able to spawn near the florid posturn.

For the skeleton trap just make all skeletons have to be at least half a ground tile away from each other

Sidenote:20200714_175846.thumb.png.4755aeeaed5b8f35515d123122880518.png

You could have haunted the hammer to wilson for a SMASHING result (pun not intended)

Almost all of what you propose solves nothing (as I've wrote previously): one doesn't need "a wall of spider dens" (overkill) around gate, for dispatching most players (newbies/noobs/casuals), one only requires 1 Spider Den in middle of gate; if you want some more certainty in maximizing player-kill count on medium resources, place 1 spider den in center of gate, plus 4 (or 6) more at ~4 tiles away from center one, in cross (hexagon) - the slowdown effect plus trigger of dens will kill vast majority of non-Webber players. Then you only need 1 Lure Plant placed left or right of gate, at 1 tile-distance: its eyes will make short work of any non-Wormwood player. (Edit: not to mention in case of a theoretical wall of Lure Plants or Walls without tentacles, one can just punch their way out)

But the 1-screen distance around gate (probably same size as the one regenerating resources around Spawn Gate in Endless worlds) in which one wouldn't be able to spawn Tentacles, place Spider Dens, Lure Plants, Walls, Fossils, End Tables etc is most simplest and elegant solution without interfering with how other in-game objects function. And to also satisfy people who might wanna base at Spawn Gate or for PvP servers/whatever additional madness, make a toggled World Settings - Spawn Protection: On/Off. Simple. "Cheese" most-included, yum!

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