It's been almost 4 years since DST released and the game largely plays the same

[Sweaper]

Just now, Crimson Chin said:

If that boss was fun to fight thanks to a nice combat system, maybe it wouldn't get as repetitive.

 

In what ways are they the same at all really? I'd explain why... they aren't... but I would just be repeating myself.

Dodge/Shield -> Attack -> Recover Stamina -> Repeat

Dodge -> Attack -> Repeat

Play Dark Souls for 4k hours + how to cheese or straight up skip a boss and you will see it can get repetitive.

[me real life]

12 minutes ago, sudoku said:

I mean look at d fly or moosegoose in singleplayer vs in multiplayer. The single player versions are 10x more engaging and more of a threat to the player simply because they are made to act as a threat to the player and seek them out.

This is a bit of a silly thing to say. DS Moose spawns and is immediately effortlessly killed by the player, or allowed to live long enough to lay an egg that you'll then exploit for infinite feathers forever. DS Dragonfly is the opposite of engaging, as she's either nearly impossible to kite (no cheese) and simply allowed to despawn, or she's simply kited via some well paced firepits or boulders. With the DST versions of these bosses, at least it's a fair fight that will likely involve minions.

[Crimson Chin]

Just now, Sweaper said:

Dodge/Shield -> Attack -> Recover Stamina -> Repeat

Dodge -> Attack -> Repeat

Play Dark Souls for 4k hours + how to cheese or straight up skip a boss and you will see it can get repetitive.

And in DST you count to 10 in your head and walk away. We are just going to have to disagree here, which is fine. It just should be very easy to see which combat system here is less shallow. 

[Sweaper]

10 minutes ago, Crimson Chin said:

And in DST you count to 10 in your head and walk away. We are just going to have to disagree here, which is fine. It just should be very easy to see which combat system here is less shallow. 

I think a certain someone never soloed 1x1 Toad, B Queen, Fuel, Pieces. If you think you can do that by counting to 10, teach me how.

You are comparing easy mobs to bosses in Dark Souls, I could say then that you could just press attack buttons a few times and every weaponless hollow would die and compare it to Fuelweaver. Fair comparison? I think not.

[Mike23Ua]

The thing about forcing bosses onto players is that it will only be fun or engaging for a little while and THEN it just becomes an annoying nuisance.

Take Deerclops as an example: When it first spawned I feared it and ran for my life every single time, and it would bully me by destroying my base I worked so hard to build.

Now that I know easy and effective ways of killing it I just move away from my base when it’s about to spawn, Kite it with Storage Chests to go exactly where I want it to go... and then I Murder it and go on about my day.

Now let’s take a look at two other games to show how bosses should be-

Minecrafts final boss fight is against a helpless dragon chained to some Pilars in its own realm minding its own business not bothering anyone... Killing this Dragon wasn’t fun or Engaging it was SAD and I felt SORRY for It.

 

Now let’s look at Dragons in Skyrim, They fly around, land in villages burning them and murdering all the towns people, making me WANT to fight and Murder them.

D-Fly coming to attack you every Summer in Solo DS, Vs Minding it own business in its own Biome in DST.

see the connection yet??

Now- The Reason D-Fly DOESNT Attack you every summer in DST is because Klei did not Design D-Fly as a Solo Encounter for DST.. she has ridiculous amounts of health and is intended for multiple players to fight.

TL:DR DST’s Biggest Problem is that it doesn’t have World content and Enemy Mob Scaling like Borderlands to adjust itself based on how many players are playing.

[Crimson Chin]

1 minute ago, Sweaper said:

I think a certain someone never soloed 1x1 Toad, B Queen, Fuel, Pieces. If you think you can do that, teach me how.

You are comparing easy mobs to bosses in Dark Souls, I could say then that you could just press attack buttons a few times and every weaponless hollow would die, compared to Fuelweaver. Fair comparison? I think not.

Heheh. We are practically spamming here and the thread is hot now, thanks to us I'm pretty sure. We should probably stop or take this to PMs if you really want to. But you are still missing the point. I never soloed "1 x 1 Toad, B Queen, Fuel, Pieces" and I really don't care to because DST's combat system isn't fun. 

[sudoku]

If people don't like how the game plays (grinding, combat system) then that is their own problem with the game. Like it has been said many times in this thread I don't think those need to be reinvented. But why should new content be gimped because some players don't like playing the game, when they can you know, not play the game.

 

If dark souls announced a brand new expansion with more areas and bosses I'm sure the community would not be dreading the fact that they have to play more with the repetitive combat system and instead would be excited for new content.

[Sweaper]

2 minutes ago, Crimson Chin said:

Heheh. We are practically spamming here and the thread is hot now, thanks to us I'm pretty sure. We should probably stop or take this to PMs if you really want to. But you are still missing the point. I never soloed "1 x 1 Toad, B Queen, Fuel, Pieces" and I really don't care to because DST's combat system isn't fun. 

Well, then you don't know everything about the combat system in DST. Someone starting Dark Souls could say the combat is trash for being clunky and delayed. We all know what someone who played through the entire Dark Souls game think about that, so you should know what I think when someone says DST combat system is bad when that someone didn't even play the entire game.

[sudoku]

20 minutes ago, Sunset Skye said:

This is a bit of a silly thing to say. DS Moose spawns and is immediately effortlessly killed by the player, or allowed to live long enough to lay an egg that you'll then exploit for infinite feathers forever. DS Dragonfly is the opposite of engaging, as she's either nearly impossible to kite (no cheese) and simply allowed to despawn, or she's simply kited via some well paced firepits or boulders. With the DST versions of these bosses, at least it's a fair fight that will likely involve minions.

My issue is with game flow though. Instead of "hey we now can effortlessly survive wanna go kill this optional boss? Sure, the loot doesn't really do much, and were only really going to fight it cause we're bored" And then once you defeat the boss " cool now what". As opposed to "hey we just narrowly defeated deerclops but we should start preparing for that other boss with the limited tools we have now, and hopefully that new boss has rewarding loot that will make it worth killing and not just letting it despawn"

[Crimson Chin]

1 minute ago, Sweaper said:

Well, then you don't know everything about the combat system in DST. Someone starting Dark Souls could say the combat is trash for being clunky and delayed. We all know what someone who played through the entire Dark Souls game think about that, so you should know what I think when someone says DST combat system is bad when that someone didn't even play the entire game.

In what circumstance will you ever be fighting toadstool, bee queen, fuelweaver, and the shadow pieces all at the same time? That won't ever happen, so why in the world would have I known how to do that without going out of my way to try it. Since DST's combat system is just memory, I and everyone else here, probably can do that once we memorize what we have to do. But... why would we? I already said I don't think that's fun at all, since I don't find DST's combat engaging. I'm not trying to say Dark Souls is perfect, and I'm absolutely not saying I want something like Dark Soul's combat system in DST, I just want something more engaging. 

 

3 minutes ago, sudoku said:

If people don't like how the game plays (grinding, combat system) then that is their own problem with the game. Like it has been said many times in this thread I don't think those need to be reinvented. But why should new content be gimped because some players don't like playing the game, when they can you know, not play the game.

I really do hope there is a way for new content to be added that will actually shake up the game and manage to be engaging, without these drastic changes, because like I said, I don't think Klei wants to or can even change something like the combat system. Its just a shame because any new piece of content they add will suffer from DST's two main flaws. Its unengaging combat system and lack of progression. I still think it would just be worth a shot to try and change those.

[Mike23Ua]

So am I the only one who knows what’s actually going on with this game? I’ve been around for a very long time playing games since I was only a couple months old- I recognize patterns in a game when I see them.

And just like with every other game I’ve ever played I KNOW that when the Developers start Reworking their character cast to have new found abilities that SURELY they have SOMETHING planned to CHALLENGE Those new found abilities...

Your Wanting a More Engaging Combat System when we don’t even have probably 10% of the character cast Reworked yet... And because I’ve played literally Billions of games- I feel pretty confident when I say that you shouldn’t expect any significant gameplay changes until AFTER those other 90% of Characters get their Reworks.

 

Otherwise- Every.. Single.. Time.. they Rework a character and add new abilities they’ll also have to Rework the game itself as a whole around that.

So TL:DR wait until all the Reworks are finalized before complaining about how the game needs to be changed.

[Sweaper]

Just now, Crimson Chin said:

In what circumstance will you ever be fighting toadstool, bee queen, fuelweaver, and the shadow pieces all at the same time? That won't ever happen, so why in the world would have I known how to do that without going out of my way to try it. Since DST's combat system is just memory, I and everyone else here, probably can do that once we memorize what we have to do. But... why would we? I already said I don't think that's fun at all, since I don't find DST's combat engaging. I'm not trying to say Dark Souls is perfect, and I'm absolutely not saying I want something like Dark Soul's combat system in DST, I just want something more engaging. 

 

I really do hope there is a way for new content to be added that will actually shake up the game and manage to be engaging, without these drastic changes, because like I said, I don't think Klei wants to or can even change something like the combat system. Its just a shame because any new piece of content they add will suffer from DST's two main flaws. Its unengaging combat system and lack of progression. I still think it would just be worth a shot to try and change those.

I didn't say at the same time.

The content is in the game, if you want the challenge it's there for you. But it appears that you say you want the challenge but is too lazy to get there, WTF!? You want the challenge of a harder and more engaging combat system or not, decide and stop being lazy. It's right freaking there waiting for you the same way a Dark Souls boss is right there sitting waiting for you, just move your character. You're just giving excuses to not go and challenge yourself while complaining Klei doesn't have engaging enemies. Bruh... really!?

Good luck trying killing them through memory alone. Counting to a certain number and kiting won't cut it unless you're using /godmode.

 

[sudoku]

Just now, Crimson Chin said:

In what circumstance will you ever be fighting toadstool, bee queen, fuelweaver, and the shadow pieces all at the same time? That won't ever happen, so why in the world would have I known how to do that without going out of my way to try it. Since DST's combat system is just memory, I and everyone else here, probably can do that once we memorize what we have to do. But... why would we? I already said I don't think that's fun at all, since I don't find DST's combat engaging. I'm not trying to say Dark Souls is perfect, and I'm absolutely not saying I want something like Dark Soul's combat system in DST, I just want something more engaging. 

 

I really do hope there is a way for new content to be added that will actually shake up the game and manage to be engaging, without these drastic changes, because like I said, I don't think Klei wants to or can even change something like the combat system. Its just a shame because any new piece of content they add will suffer from DST's two main flaws. Its unengaging combat system and lack of progression. I still think it would just be worth a shot to try and change those.

That's why I think buffing old tools or introducing new stuff that is not required to kill a boss but makes it easier. We shouldn't be getting bosses that are clones of one another or that are hambat sponges. Klei has always struggled with bosses, though they have tried in DST to make them interesting. The lifesteal mechanic of the Bat Bat is neat and I would like to see a boss that engages this and perhaps requires you to need multiple tools to deal with instead of just a hambat to the face. Like if the boss has a life drain phase and having a bat bat would sure be useful. 

Imagine a treeguard boss fight where you need to use axes, pick/axes, glass axe, to fight and where you need to plant pinecones to debuff him. 

[BeanBagSonic]

17 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

I think a certain someone never soloed 1x1 Toad, B Queen, Fuel, Pieces. If you think you can do that by counting to 10, teach me how.

You are comparing easy mobs to bosses in Dark Souls, I could say then that you could just press attack buttons a few times and every weaponless hollow would die and compare it to Fuelweaver. Fair comparison? I think not.

Stop comparing Don't Starve (Together) to other games and actually look at DST itself in its entirety. It's not even fair to compare Don't Starve (Together) to Dark Souls, which I believe you brought up in the first place, because Dark Souls actually has a combat system.

Dark Souls has a stamina mechanic, it has dodging that is affected by your weight (light, medium and heavy sets dictate your dodges), it has actual blocking/parrying, and Dark Souls has roughly 20+ weapons that you can choose from, not including the level-up system and the stats that you can choose from.

To compare a Don't Starve's lackluster walk-and-hit to Dark Soul's more calculated dodging and hitting with more consequence if you take damage is absolutely, completely and ridiculously unfair; it's unthinkable to even bring up such a comparison when DS(T) in itself has an inherently flawed combat system. It was sort of remedied by the introduction of Forge, but that was only a limited-time event and has been canned ever since.

[Sweaper]

Just now, BeanBagSonic said:

Stop comparing Don't Starve (Together) to other games and actually look at DST itself in its entirety. It's not even fair to compare Don't Starve (Together) to Dark Souls, which I believe you brought up in the first place, because Dark Souls actually has a combat system.

Dark Souls has a stamina mechanic, it has dodging that is affected by your weight (light, medium and heavy sets dictate your dodges), it has actual blocking/parrying, and Dark Souls has roughly 20+ weapons that you can choose from, not including the level-up system and the stats that you can choose from.

To compare a Don't Starve's lackluster walk-and-hit to Dark Soul's more calculated dodging and hitting with more consequence if you take damage is absolutely, completely and ridiculously unfair; it's unthinkable to even bring up such a comparison when DS(T) in itself has an inherently flawed combat system. It was sort of remedied by the introduction of Forge, but that was only a limited-time event and has been canned ever since.

It wasn't me who compared to Dark Souls though.

[sudoku]

6 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

I didn't say at the same time.

The content is in the game, if you want the challenge it's there for you. But it appears that you say you want the challenge but is too lazy to get there, WTF!? You want the challenge of a harder and more engaging combat system or not, decide and stop being lazy. It's right freaking there waiting for you the same way a Dark Souls boss is right there sitting waiting for you, just move your character. You're just giving excuses to not go and challenge yourself while complaining Klei doesn't have engaging enemies. Bruh... really!?

Good luck trying killing them through memory alone. Counting to a certain number and kiting won't cut it unless you're using /godmode.

 

I'm not sure why you are so aggressive and resort to insults over people's suggestions on a forum made for fans to discuss and give their suggestions. Is it because it's gameplay suggestions? If you don't agree as you've made it clear then say so and move on, but your ruthlessness to tear into people's personal suggestions is quite jarring. There are a myriad of other threads for you to comment on like what new backpack skin you want in the game. But you can be sure that once you do give your suggestion in that thread I or the others in this thread won't be there to devalue your choice of new skin or insult you for wanting it.

[Sweaper]

3 minutes ago, sudoku said:

I'm not sure why you are so aggressive and resort to insults over people's suggestions on a forum made for fans to discuss and give their suggestions. Is it because it's gameplay suggestions? If you don't agree as you've made it clear then say so and move on, but your ruthlessness to tear into people's personal suggestions is quite jarring. There are a myriad of other threads for you to comment on like what new backpack skin you want in the game. But you can be sure that once you do give your suggestion in that thread I or the others in this thread won't be there to devalue your choice of new skin or insult you for wanting it.

He said himself he is not going to go out of his way to see the rest of the game even though he wants to see some more challenging stuff. He can't decide what he wants, I'm not going to hold his mouse and guide him to that.

Edit: I have no interest in skins at the moment, sorry. Default always.

[Crimson Chin]

8 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

So am I the only one who knows what’s actually going on with this game?

No you're not the only one who plays games, Mike. I hope you're right and Klei is planning something big, but I have a hard time believing it. Every single update in RoT has been fluff so far, in fact this thread was made to address that issue. 

8 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

I didn't say at the same time.

The content is in the game, if you want the challenge it's there for you. But it appears that you say you want the challenge but is too lazy to get there, WTF!? You want the challenge of a harder and more engaging combat system or not, decide and stop being lazy. It's right freaking there waiting for you the same way a Dark Souls boss is right there sitting waiting for you, just move your character. You're just giving excuses to not go and challenge yourself while complaining Klei doesn't have engaging enemies. Bruh... really!?

Good luck trying killing them through memory alone. Counting to a certain number and kiting won't cut it unless you're using /godmode.

 

This is getting petty and you are continuing to miss my point. @BeanBagSonic explained what I was saying much better about DST's combat being shallow, so see that if you want to. 

Just now, Sweaper said:

He said himself he is not going to go out of his way to see the rest of the game even though he wants to see some more challenging stuff. He can't decide what he wants, I'm not going to hold his mouse and guide him to that.

If you are referring to the bosses you listed, sure I have done those, not all at the same time though. Like I just said, this continues to miss my point about DST's combat being unengaging, shallow, and in the end just not fun.

[Sweaper]

5 minutes ago, Crimson Chin said:

If you are referring to the bosses you listed, sure I have done those, not all at the same time though. Like I just said, this continues to miss my point about DST's combat being unengaging, shallow, and in the end just not fun.

Did you count to 10 for kiting and attacked those? Or what number are those, I'm still trying to solo them. Because if the combat is so shallow and unengaging it must be simple too, I'm just not able to kite them with a set of numbers. In Dark Souls I could just iframe stuff or poke things, but in Don't Starve I can't really do that in melee range using hambat without armor.

[Yuuko]

5 hours ago, Crimson Chin said:

Personally, I think it pretty much becomes... objectively bad game design if the only solution here is to cripple yourself. Players shouldn't have to force themselves to play a game a certain way to make the experience engaging in the slightest. For many, it is extremely hard to engage with content... that is really just wasting their time. Things like lunar island fail because there is absolutely nothing there that is interesting... or worth your time. Its just fluff. That's not so say fluff/just for fun content, like these rat races,  doesn't have any place in games, its just that there absolutely needs to be a well designed core experience without the fluff.. which right now, DST is lacking. 

As pointed out in this thread by many, DST's main flaw holding it back is that it relies entirely on memory (Which is not good when your game is supposed to be replayable!). Any threat in this game becomes completely obsolete once you know about it. ANY new content they add with DST's current combat system and non-existent progression system, will suffer from this same exact flaw. So...... that's where I would start. Revamp the combat system to rely less on memory and more on skill. This would make it so that even if you are familiar with how an enemy works, it would still require some skill to take it out. And as for a progression system.... well uhh...... add one! The world could get increasingly difficult with increasingly good/interesting rewards.. They could add world-changing events that cause these increases and open up the world in new ways, like for an easy example, killing the fuelweaver. Open up the portal to gorge and forge or something... and have content from those events leak into the world... as biomes... weapons... npcs/enemies... etc.. Another one could be the chunk of the moon falling. Have some event cause it to fall from the moon, changing the water from the classic cardboard to the real traversable water we have today. Of course, that would require them to change the lunar island and to make it actually rewarding and fun to go there.... same for the ocean in general. And I realize these changes might not be for everyone.... so..... it could be... OPTIONAL.. a setting you select when creating the world or something. There could be a "Classic mode", which would be what we have today... and a new "mode" for whatever you want to call these changes. 

As cool as I think all of that COULD potentially be.... I unfortunately really don't think any of these changes are plausible with.. err.. Klei's current mindset. Its clear that all of this new content is intentionally designed to be fluff and only fluff. Quite frankly, I'm not even sure they would know HOW to change the game, as that would require you to understand the game's current systems and flaws. Just go watch a stream of theirs, its abundantly clear they don't really... play the game. I hope I'm wrong there.. but ehhh...

But, what do I know? I won't act like I'm an expert game designer, I fully realize changes like these are difficult/time consuming... and I doubt are something I would be able to perfectly come up with myself... But...all I'm trying to say is that it might be worth a shot. I truly believe it would be very much so worth their time to just, at the very least........ think about something like this.... In the end, fluff content isn't going to be able to keep this game alive for much longer.

Well there are some real things to consider when it comes to skill in a game.  Dark Souls is an apt comparison because it is largely focused on memorizing boss patterns, attack patterns, and enduring near instant defeat if you fail at any point in the play.  The only difference between DST and Dark Souls combat is mostly how many different attacks you need to memorize, and how many patterns you need to memorize to defend against.  There are two limiting factors that prevent DST from having the variety though.

1) Dark Souls is a combat focused game, you are given many meaningful armor and weapon choices, as well as different techniques all of which are designed to compliment the complexity of the bosses.  DST is not a combat focused game, its attack is simply its attack.  The only difference in weapon choice is the damage per hit.  They don't even have different ranges or attack speeds.  This also perfectly compliments the bosses of DST which have very simple attacks you can dodge by moving away.

The bosses could be updated to have more varied attack types and attack patterns, but it would require DST to undergo a complete combat overhaul and become a combat focused game.  That might be great for Wolfgang or Wigfrid, but most character in DST aren't combat focused characters anyway...  so it would really break theme to come out now, after all these Wes mains have found every way to survive that doesn't require swinging a piece of meat at something, and say "Oh yeah, now everyone is a fighting game character."

2) Dark Souls is a single player experience, you are connected straight to the game.  DST is an online game.  Catch the difference?  Latency.  Dark Souls has no latency and so can require extremely tight timing.  Meanwhile DST has latency, usually 1/5th of a second minimum but as is the nature of any online game, it could go up at any time.  As such the ability for the game to demand you execute quick, life or death decisions is limited.  How fair would it be if any lag spike in a 10 minute boss fight meant you were just dead, possibly ending your world you spent 40+ hours building?

You might reply "online games can require quick inputs and reactions, just look at league of legends / street fighter / dbfz ect"  but there are a few mitigating factors that allow these to work which would not work for DST.  First off players are on both ends of the fight so the latency, whatever it is, is experienced on both ends as a mutual handicap.  A host server generating an attack that all players must suffer would vary from reasonable to impossible to react based on your latency to the server.  Secondly these games only load a few pieces of content so the network communication is very little to keep latency at bay.  A server running multiple people at different locations with all of the dynamic objects loaded throughout the world not be able to provide even a "seemingly lagless" environment to support a more complex combat system.  Also - even in these games there is lag, and it sucks.  Competitive people recognize that playing these games online is vastly different from playing them live because there are certain tactics that take advantage of the latancy to cheese an opponent where in a live match the same strategy would equal certain death.

What I will concede is this - The Winter Feast Deerclopse has 2 different attack patterns with random selection.  They do require you to defend differently in that you cannot easily dodge the laser running directly away as you would against her other attack.  Lets say this is a middle ground, if they did this would you be satisfied?

(hint, fuel weaver and toadstool both already have multiple different attacks for you to react to, and bee queen, dfly, and shadow pieces already have multiple stages which vary combat throughout the fight)

[Mike23Ua]

Like I said-

There are 16 characters in DST & we know that at least one more NEW one is still coming.

Of those 16: Willow, Woodie, Winona, Wormwood, & Warly are the only ones who have been Reworked.

(and I won’t count Wortox or Wurt because they’re DLC)

We also know that Klei is planning to Rework the entire games original cast over the course of 2020, to make them more unique and fun to play.

That still leaves Wilson, Wolfgang, Wendy, WX78, Wickerbottom, Wes, Maxwell, Wigfrid & Webber that are still going to be updated.

Theres also the chance of Walani, Wilbur & Woodlegs from Shipwrecked. And Wilba, Wheeler & Wagstaff from Hamlet.

that is still a whooping total of 15 characters (assuming the rest of Hamlet and SW are Added to DST) that have NOT Received their DST Ability Reworks.

So to change the way the game plays at all at this moment before they finish all that would just be plain crazy..

Wait until all the Reworks are complete before we expect any huge gameplay changes.

[sudoku]

I personally do not mind the repetitiveness of combat but I wouldn't mind them trying to alleviate this. When I say the game plays the same as it did 4 years ago, I am mostly talking about how we still only have ROGs threats : seasons, deerclops, and bearger.   Additional bosses only become threats when you fight them and since you yourself determines when to do so they will never be real threats. Like I mentioned previously, why should new content be developed as actual threats instead of being optional? Because it directly affects gameflow . Turning off these new threats in world gen is no different than how the optional bosses behave already for those of you who never touch them

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

 Okay well Season 1 and 2 of Apex Legends took place on the same map, when Season 3 happened they destroyed the original map and moved us to a brand new planet.

is THIS the kind of change your talking about that DST should have?

I mean crap like that really only works in Free to Play games because I don’t know about you but.. I don’t buy a game because it is One thing.. and then years later they Change it into something completely unrecognizable that I may not even like..

I don't think DST needs to change its core game play.  You said games reinvent themselves but your examples were all sequels.  DST is still DST, Return of Them isn't DST4.  When I load up GTA San Andreas (which I'm currently re-playing for the nth time) its the exact same game I've always played.  It did not reinvent its self.  Each different game in the series took a fresh perspective on the game, yes... but those are still different games.

[Crimson Chin]

10 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

Did you count to 10 for kiting and attacked those? Or what number are those, I'm still trying to solo them. Because if the combat is so shallow and unengaging it must be simple too, I'm just not able to kite them with a set of numbers. In Dark Souls I could just iframe stuff or poke things, but in Don't Starve I can't really do that in melee range using hambat without armor.

You are still missing the point. DST's bosses are health sponges and can't be kited in some situations. Its shallow, and  just boils down to chugging bluecaps and holding ctrl f. Practically unavoidable attacks and mass amounts of HP make them even less engaging than normal kiting in some ways, so I'm certainly not asking for that. And........... I still think you should REALLY REALLY give @BeanBagSonic's post a read. 

 

10 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

----------

This Dark Souls comparison really got out of hand, I'm not asking for a combat system like dark souls. I'm just asking for something more skill based and engaging. I'm no game developer, but I can't really see any new content that can be added that won't suffer from DST's unengaging combat system or its lack of a progression system. I want to be proven wrong, really. 

[Sweaper]

12 minutes ago, sudoku said:

I personally do not mind the repetitiveness of combat but I wouldn't mind them trying to alleviate this. When I say the game plays the same as it did 4 years ago, I am mostly talking about how we still only have ROGs threats : seasons, deerclops, and bearger.   Additional bosses only become threats when you fight them and since you yourself determines when to do so they will never be real threats. Like I mentioned previously, why should new content be developed as actual threats instead of being optional? Because it directly affects gameflow . Turning off these new threats in world gen is no different than how the optional bosses behave already for those of you who never touch them

 

Replace the seasonal bosses to the optional bosses [EDIT: and vice-versa]. New game, totally revamped, with different strategies to deal with them.

4 years passes.

A new thread, you may know the title already. At least we got the entire 4 years to figure the best new strategy to make those bosses trivial, or was it a month? No one will know.

7 minutes ago, Crimson Chin said:

You are still missing the point. DST's bosses are health sponges and can't be kited in some situations. Its shallow, and  just boils down to chugging bluecaps and holding ctrl f. Practically unavoidable attacks and mass amounts of HP make them even less engaging than normal kiting in some ways, so I'm certainly not asking for that. And........... I still think you should REALLY REALLY give @BeanBagSonic's post a read. 

 

This Dark Souls comparison really got out of hand, I'm not asking for a combat system like dark souls. I'm just asking for something more skill based and engaging. I'm no game developer, but I can't really see any new content that can be added that won't suffer from DST's unengaging combat system or its lack of a progression system. I want to be proven wrong, really. 

I think we have footage of people soloing those bosses while doing more than just chugging caps and holding ctrl+f. Could be a dream though.

But hey, imagine playing a sandbox and not playing the way you want to play.