dst @Klei...About the Woodie Update

[osmRhodey]

My opinion on, The Woodie Update...

Cool concept. Poor execution.

Let me explain further and talk about how simple his update could have been and how this is not a good direction to have other people want to play him long term. This is not even good gameplay wise...it’s only surface level intriguing.

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All of the ideas that were shown and talked about had a great concept idea. By themselves. Putting them all together though simply made a mess.
You can put everything in the kitchen in a pot of water and call it a soup but that doesn’t mean it’s any good.

We already knew Woodie was Canadian, the lore and his mannerisms made us sure of that. We didn’t need further evidence of his Canadian-ness shoved all over us. The problem was simply his port over to DST from DS.
His normal form had been largely unaltered aside from the meter, which was okay. But the werebeaver had been nerfed so hard from the griefing scare of early DST that mods were the only way to go for a decent playable character.

The three forms, I feel, were a great idea in concept. Again though, they were so poorly executed. A much simpler way would have been to just go down the Wolfgang route for the beaver. Beavers are dangerous SoB’s...you don’t need to add more sudden animals.(you didn’t even give us an explination as to why he’s suddenly a totem spirit) Have stats(maybe beaver forms) associated with his Log and Health meters.

example...
• >30% Log and >30% Health = Combat form, dmg is highest, armor is median, speed is lowest than the others(similar to what you have with the moose...without a moose)
• <30% Log and >30% Health = Ravenous form, dmg is median, armor is lowest, speed is median
• Any %Log and <30% Health = Scared form, dmg is lowest, armor is highest, speed is highest

A simple fix that just ties in with code having the health be the main priority in the code.

The totems are a neat idea but such a waste of food...Not to mention the form lasts for maybe a minute tops, not even, and isn’t even worth the waste. The full moon being entirely random on choice is not fun, far too much risk with no reward for gameplay. Just keep the beaver...that was his shtick and you’re giving up no reason of understanding for why he’s changed. (Goose. Is. Useless. Full moon randomized me as the Goose and that just makes me a liability)
The fact that coming out of the werebeast form leaves you starving is horrible gameplay design. Especially if you’re using the totems. You’ve wasted food, you could have had full hunger, now you have to eat even more. Not fun.

All that needed changing on Woodie was a dmg and armor buff, the sanity to be dropped a little bit, and the log meter to be hidden. Lucy gave the cues, and if it was to be made easier for new players, have it show up when you’re around 35 in the meter, thus a large red flag to players who missed the cues.
To further the players wanting to keep it at bay(you could raise the amount a little bit more) or; Have logs give back the tiniest amount of hunger and living logs maybe fill some health instead. Maybe vegetables could also fill the log meter, but it’s a tiny amount.

In this concept, each form(which could just be a face thing), would have it’s own use for the player without the randomization or complication. The Combat form would be bulky and wonderful for combat to help out friends(you could keep the charge too and have it so he slaps something with the tail). The Ravenous form would be amazing for clearing out trees and all again, helping gather mass supplies for the group. The Scared form is great to still attack and makes you an even faster kiter, keeping you agile and on your toes, you can’t do as much but you can still help.

Following up on this, all that was really wrong on Woodie on first port was the heavy nerf to the beaver. His damage was terrible, the armor was horrendous, and the sanity drain was too heavy. Plus the werebeaver ghost, I feel, was unneeded...Instead something like DS where he “dies”, turns back, and a moment of invincibility frames would work(even a few seconds for the animation when he snaps awake). Allow something where the monsters maybe lose aggro temporarily and a nearby friend could take them off while he gets back up.
This is Don’t Starve Together. Emphasize the ‘together’ part but allowing other friends to pull aggro and help.

People before have suggested allowing the werebeaver to swim. Maybe he can’t swim in the ocean(or it’s super limited), so instead he can dive into the ponds. Something that would be very high risk, with some reward. Jumping into a pond could cool off the werebeaver instantly, but raise the wetness meter significantly. On top of that, you could have the chance of fishing out something(ie. fish, eel, lichen, rot, trinkets/gears in the oasis, etc). But on the flip side, the chance is high that you might spawn frogs or mosquitoes that chase you out of the pond for a little before heading back.

TLDR; We don’t need the totems. The inability to keep a form for a lasting amount of time is terrible. The new forms are generally unneeded. Just keep it as a beaver and rework that. Make Woodie shine by himself.

Let Lucy do more damage to the tree beasts. Keep the higher chance for tree beasts. Keep his better follower time. Remove the new forms and keep it as a beaver. Remove the beaver ghost and just let him wake up with a short de-aggro or invincibility frame with hunger set to ~50%. Give the beaver some new features. I saw the Lucy bite damage, that could be brought back for anyone who’s not Woodie trying to grab her intentionally. Etc. Etc.

This could be further expanded upon but I believe I’ve said enough for now. If this is read and considered, thank you. If it’s just read, still thank you.

Also yes, hello, I do return from the grave.

[osmRhodey]

I could remake this to read better but I've honestly been so stressed I can't even read right now. I very much do apologize.

[GamerCat11]

Ehh... don't really like your suggestions that much, sure thing all they had to do is revert the changes they did to were-beaver in the transition between Don't starve to Don't starve togheter! But that isen't how Klei rolls, they useully do... well these kinds of things! (And i like that!)

Curently we'll just have to wait until Klei thinks up some fixes, most likely some more abilities for the were-goose and were-moose forms, soo they are a bit more worth useing in more situation's!

[osmRhodey]

1 hour ago, GamerCat11 said:

Ehh... don't really like your suggestions that much, sure thing all they had to do is revert the changes they did to were-beaver in the transition between Don't starve to Don't starve togheter! But that isen't how Klei rolls, they useully do... well these kinds of things! (And i like that!)

Curently we'll just have to wait until Klei thinks up some fixes, most likely some more abilities for the were-goose and were-moose forms, soo they are a bit more worth useing in more situation's!

I've been getting that a lot. I've  had people agree though. I understand my writing on here isn't as clean as many of the others and I apologize for that. Some of the ideas come out confusing.

The basic consensus I can get, as a Woodie main and from some others, simplicity would be better.

If they decided to keep Woodie like this, fine. Rework all of what's going on now as it's so immensely unbalanced. But at the same time, it feels like far too much is going on at once. I also am a strict stander for the randomised change, especially if nothing big comes along. Leaving things completely up to chance on a full moon is not fun gameplay wise in my book. No other character is left to a dice roll of what you're going to be doing that day...

Klei would not just keep basic everything for the beaver man, hence the suggestions simply give it more flare.

Giving it, not really 3 forms, but 3 states that could emphasise working together.  Combatative being good for fighting and dealing heavy damage while allowing you to keep the charge for a tail slap. Ravenous being the destroyer of forests and rocks, etc, working the fastest to outspeed even Maxwell with puppets. The damaged one possibly running on all fours to flee from fights and heal, or to help kite and pull aggro. The whole system being something a player themselves could manipulate and shape as they wished to help the group as a whole.

Giving him a new feature(I forgot to add some of this before) that could allow for diving into the ponds, damming over said ponds, or swimming very short distances. Beavers are aquatic mammals, they can do all that's being suggested for the goose already, I digress. Allowing him to dive ponds to have a chance to haul up fish/etc gives a new ability of a free fishing rod, with the high chance that you could spawn a group of frogs, mosquitos, or an Antlion attack. Damming the ponds could be a viable strategy for players who want a base nearby, something to walk over but something that can still be burned to allow use again. Short swims to cross the small gaps like a hound, long swimming feels like it would be a waste and could simply kill you when the meter runs out.

The ideas are simply here as suggestion for stuff that could spice up the character, leave him more intriguing. Other ideas could even expand upon him, like being able to plant and grow totally normal trees for the living logs, etc.(human)

I can understand not everyone agrees, that's fine. I just hope for something.

[GamerCat11]

On 2019-09-13 at 3:42 PM, osmRhodey said:

I've been getting that a lot. I've  had people agree though. I understand my writing on here isn't as clean as many of the others and I apologize for that. Some of the ideas come out confusing.

The basic consensus I can get, as a Woodie main and from some others, simplicity would be better.

If they decided to keep Woodie like this, fine. Rework all of what's going on now as it's so immensely unbalanced. But at the same time, it feels like far too much is going on at once. I also am a strict stander for the randomised change, especially if nothing big comes along. Leaving things completely up to chance on a full moon is not fun gameplay wise in my book. No other character is left to a dice roll of what you're going to be doing that day...

Klei would not just keep basic everything for the beaver man, hence the suggestions simply give it more flare.

Giving it, not really 3 forms, but 3 states that could emphasise working together.  Combatative being good for fighting and dealing heavy damage while allowing you to keep the charge for a tail slap. Ravenous being the destroyer of forests and rocks, etc, working the fastest to outspeed even Maxwell with puppets. The damaged one possibly running on all fours to flee from fights and heal, or to help kite and pull aggro. The whole system being something a player themselves could manipulate and shape as they wished to help the group as a whole.

Giving him a new feature(I forgot to add some of this before) that could allow for diving into the ponds, damming over said ponds, or swimming very short distances. Beavers are aquatic mammals, they can do all that's being suggested for the goose already, I digress. Allowing him to dive ponds to have a chance to haul up fish/etc gives a new ability of a free fishing rod, with the high chance that you could spawn a group of frogs, mosquitos, or an Antlion attack. Damming the ponds could be a viable strategy for players who want a base nearby, something to walk over but something that can still be burned to allow use again. Short swims to cross the small gaps like a hound, long swimming feels like it would be a waste and could simply kill you when the meter runs out.

The ideas are simply here as suggestion for stuff that could spice up the character, leave him more intriguing. Other ideas could even expand upon him, like being able to plant and grow totally normal trees for the living logs, etc.(human)

I can understand not everyone agrees, that's fine. I just hope for something.

I can see where you and other's who don't like this reworked version of Woodie come from, haveing your main changed from something you love to an less than stellar charachter is infureating! (I've experienced this in other online charachter focused games!)

Adding these were-forms dosen't mean it has to be complex, currently the were-forms are as simplictic as they could've been made! But that is where Klei took a bit of a miss step, we don't need the were-forms to be simplistic; but instead useful and worth useing!

Keeping it simplistic is good, but too simplistic and it'll be too simple for it's own good! This is why the were-moose is soo bad at fighting, tho that's what it's intended for! this is also why the were-goose is... well less than useful, it's ment to be an form of transportaion, exploreation and escapeing situations but it dose only one of those in an, well... less than stellar way!

Well i can't really say anything else for now, soo for now we'll just have to hope that Klei choses the best course of action!

[Mike23Ua]

As I posted in another thread the were-goose needs to be reworked to act similar to a real world pelican..

meaning while in that form he can fly over water (a confirmed feature coming in a update later) but he needs to do more than just float over water!!!

the Were-Goose should be able to snatch fish up out the water and those small water birds, maybe even sea kelp or debris in the water..

make it USEFULL not boring.

 

as for Were-Moose, outside of extending the time you stay in that form I would say Were-Moose could use some extra ability too, in addition to his charge.. maybe give him a ground slam similar to the Bearger but the absolute BEST Idea I can come up for this form outside of fighting is the ability to make a moose mating call (which will spawn some of those little yellow moose-lings that accompany the moose-goose boss) making these two alternate Woodie forms less useless and more focused on Team work and more importantly.. more focused on helping you and your buddies Don’t Starve.. TOGETHER!