liquid how to create liquid oxygen?

[geniusthemaster]

any good methods? ive tried running a entropy nullifier to the maximum and i still yield no liquid oxygen, plenty of liquid carbon that self duplicates tho.

[MorsDux]

14 minutes ago, geniusthemaster said:

any good methods? ive tried running a entropy nullifier to the maximum and i still yield no liquid oxygen, plenty of liquid carbon that self duplicates tho.

google this you will find solutions.

[Nostas]

Francis John on youtube got you covered.

 

uploaded a video about that today

 

 

[Lancar]

Short answer:
Nullifiers cannot cause a state-change in any gas, and it, afaik, cannot cool anything low enough to condense oxygen anyway.
Your best bet is to use super coolant in an Aquatuner to chill oxygen via radiant pipes. Failing that, you can also use Thermoregulators to cool Hydrogen and send that through radiant gas pipes through an oxygen room. Both methods will work.

[geniusthemaster]

thanks guys

 

[Nightinggale]

53 minutes ago, geniusthemaster said:

ive tried running a entropy nullifier to the maximum and i still yield no liquid oxygen

An entropy nullifier stops cooling at -173 C. Oxygen becomes liquid at -183 C.

An EN only use 10% of the hydrogen that a hydrogen generator consumes, meaning you could say that it's consuming 80 W while killing 80 kDTUs/s. Using the same hydrogen for hydrogen generators to power aquatuners will always be less efficient. This means it can be a valid strategy to cool oxygen to -160 C (or lower) with an EN and then use an aquatuner or thermo regulator to lower it the last step to become liquid.

However if you use super coolant and the aquatuners heat up steam for steam turbines, then the offset from the steam turbines will make that approach more power efficient. It does however require space materials.

[geniusthemaster]

thank you well put

[ishakaru]

On 5/27/2019 at 4:50 PM, Nightinggale said:

However if you use super coolant and the aquatuners heat up steam for steam turbines, then the offset from the steam turbines will make that approach more power efficient.

Last time I ran the numbers, I figured out you can make an aquatuner running super coolant power neutral. It involves 4 turbines running at sub 140C using the output water as a coolant for the turbines(the part that makes it power neutral). Since the numbers are so narrow, I expect it will take a long time to achieve balance. 

[Nightinggale]

9 hours ago, ishakaru said:

Last time I ran the numbers, I figured out you can make an aquatuner running super coolant power neutral. It involves 4 turbines running at sub 140C using the output water as a coolant for the turbines(the part that makes it power neutral). Since the numbers are so narrow, I expect it will take a long time to achieve balance. 

If you perfect this setup, you will still lose 4.4% of the power, meaning you will need 55.6 W from an outside source to keep it running. Alternatively you need to feed it with 57.4 kDTUs/s. Each steam turbine can only provide 4 kDTUs/s meaning you are still 41.4 kDTUs short of being power neutral.

Water has a heat capacity of 4.179 DTUs/gram, which is the same as kDTUs/kg. With 8 kg/s of water, that's 16,716 kDTU/s for each C you increase the water temperature. This means you need to increase the water from 95 C to 98.43 C to make the setup power neutral. Sadly it will only be 95.95 C unless you get heat from the outside.

Yes you can get it very close to being power neutral, but not completely. You will need 40 W or 41.4 kDTU/s from the outside. I have to say that running an aquatuner with just 40 W sounds pretty good to me even if it isn't power neutral.

[ishakaru]

11 hours ago, Nightinggale said:

Each steam turbine can only provide 4 kDTUs/s

You forgot the 10% of the heat deleted that gets added to that number. That's another 118160+11816+1181+118+11+1=131287 DTU or 127w. For a grand total of 1271w.

I tried running a test build and kept running into the problem of the build running too hot. It's late so I'll try again tomorrow.

[Nightinggale]

12 hours ago, ishakaru said:

You forgot the 10% of the heat deleted that gets added to that number.

How can I forget something I never noticed in the first place?

I looked into the source code and indeed it's there. Quite interestingly it's actually mentioned as a standalone number, meaning we can reuse the same component to make another steam turbine with 50% or 200% or whatever number we want. It also looks like we can control output elements meaning we can set it to output liquid CO2 if we like. Now we just need some interesting ideas for how to use this best when modding.

13 hours ago, ishakaru said:

That's another 118160+11816+1181+118+11+1=131287 DTU

It's actually 132616 DTU if you take "interest of interest" into account. This will provide you with an additional 1.3 W.

This means you should in theory be able to make a stable setup with 4 turbines, which produce 72.8 W more than it consumes, requires no outside energy/fuel and cools super coolant. However the water from the turbines needs to heat up 4.45 C, which makes it 99.45 C. That's 0.55 C colder than when the turbines stop. Using 5 turbines will lower the water temperature to 98.65 C, 6 to 98.12 C. 4 turbines is in theory doable, but it's cutting it nerverackingly close to killing itself with heat. 5 Steam turbines seems much more realistic.

Looks like we found the "power out of nothing", but I don't think it's overpowered. It requires a constant super coolant to cool to operate, requires space materials, it's very big and expensive to build. On top of that it generates 72 W. You will need 16.5 of those to power a single metal refinery.

[ishakaru]

 

7 hours ago, Nightinggale said:

How can I forget something I never noticed in the first place?

Soz, thought it was common knowledge. (to be fair it is on the wiki)

 

7 hours ago, Nightinggale said:

It's actually 132616 DTU

Yea, I was dog tired last night. Looking at the spread sheet I don't have the 4k per turbine included.  

 

7 hours ago, Nightinggale said:

You will need 16.5 of those to power a single metal refinery.

Speaking of things that can power it's self... Iron is little north of neutral(power x1.08), steal produces a bunch of excess(x1.88),  wolf(x.62) and copper(x0.65) are a about two thirds... gold is simply a power sink(x0.21). Of course this is all with base 40 seconds refining time. I guess if you wanted to go with the turbines running at sub 140C... you could squeeze more out... but that seems a touch over kill to me for a max 40w per turbine.

[Nightinggale]

16 hours ago, ishakaru said:

Soz, thought it was common knowledge. (to be fair it is on the wiki)

I have now looked around for this info and apart from the source code and this thread, I can't find any mentioning of the 10% heat production. The steam turbine page fail to mention it.