Balance overviews and solutions

[natanstarke]

Hi ppl here is my balance observations.

Too many raw minerals in all phases of the game but thats actually good just needed more variety because normally i use igneous for like 90% of things.

Metal volcanos, and coolslush geysers are too strong especially slushs actually, volcanos at least need taming so its more balanced.

Pacus infinite free meat.

Late game lag and lag when flying critters are left alive. Just create a animation tab where we can disable all animations we want with checkboxes. I really love the animations in the game but everything for performance.

Pufts buff in slime production for ppl to be able to have 1 ranch of them only and be able to support like 6 mushrooms at max capacity. Its not that strong but its usable at least and produce some non overpower meat.

Huge nerf into all top tier foods +16 morale is just too much. Adding new food types and maybe making barbeque a lot more costly meat wise could suffice this part and the pacu part maybe?

Great hall nerf. Less moral or high requirements like a powered recreational building or at least obligate the water cooler to be on to have the bonus and even then be like +2 moral or +3.

Mess hall nerf to +1 moral without changes to requirements.

Big gas pumps buff: less energy cost for these, they move 1/10 " actually 1/20 because they normally suck 500g/s unless in super pressurized areas. The ammount the suck is ok but the energy cost its not.

Artists nerf and decor nerfs: its actually super easy to spam top tier sculptures now. Just having random chances when building them and lower all their decor values would help to create a need into using metal tiles, plastic tiles and other decor options.

Diseases, a step in the right direction but still need to stop the dupes getting sick from the nothingness a notification click able showing where the dupe touched the germ would help to see if it is some weird bug or lack of cleaning/isolation players cannot detect using the germ overlay or if it is because some dupe sneezing next to another.

Buff/nerf co2 geyser, hot polluted oxygen vent. Reasons, every geyser have like a big problem and a reward into them except those theyre simply too weak To be usefull and not dangerous enough to not be able to just let them open.

If you guys saw something you think is imba plz share and tell why :).

 

 

 

 

[Daxterr]

I say instead of nerfing food, why not make all high tier jobs cost more morale?

[Sasza22]

11 hours ago, natanstarke said:

Too many raw minerals in all phases of the game but thats actually good just needed more variety because normally i use igneous for like 90% of things.

Imo there should be some sort of refinement for rock. It doesn`t make sense to make a glass forge or smelter out of raw rock.

11 hours ago, natanstarke said:

Metal volcanos, and coolslush geysers are too strong especially slushs actually, volcanos at least need taming so its more balanced.

Slush could use a nerf but some of the gas geysers should be buffed like polluted oxygen, hydrogen, CO2, none of them produce meaningful amounts.

11 hours ago, natanstarke said:

Late game lag and lag when flying critters are left alive. Just create a animation tab where we can disable all animations we want with checkboxes. I really love the animations in the game but everything for performance.

I don`t think it`s the animations affecting performance. It`s more about the pathing calculations, especially for flyers.

11 hours ago, natanstarke said:

Huge nerf into all top tier foods +16 morale is just too much. Adding new food types and maybe making barbeque a lot more costly meat wise could suffice this part and the pacu part maybe?

Great hall nerf. Less moral or high requirements like a powered recreational building or at least obligate the water cooler to be on to have the bonus and even then be like +2 moral or +3.

Mess hall nerf to +1 moral without changes to requirements.

All of the morale stuff needs a rebalance. Either this or increase the morale needs. The balance would be hit if decor was an actual requirement both early and later in the game so that you`d have to make low tier artwork to keep morale high and then upgrade it to better art.

11 hours ago, natanstarke said:

Big gas pumps buff: less energy cost for these, they move 1/10 " actually 1/20 because they normally suck 500g/s unless in super pressurized areas. The ammount the suck is ok but the energy cost its not.

I`m ok wiht the power requirements. It creates a challenge to mantain your power grid without overloads. With lower power consumption it would be super easy to make an electrolizer setup super early.

11 hours ago, natanstarke said:

Artists nerf and decor nerfs: its actually super easy to spam top tier sculptures now. Just having random chances when building them and lower all their decor values would help to create a need into using metal tiles, plastic tiles and other decor options.

I`d start with nerfing metal tiles. Leave the decor to designated decor buildings and metal tiles for heat transfer. Imo it should work like this. Early you build a lot of low tier artwork to keep the decor high and later you replace it with lower amount of higher tier decor items for the same effect.

11 hours ago, natanstarke said:

Diseases, a step in the right direction but still need to stop the dupes getting sick from the nothingness a notification click able showing where the dupe touched the germ would help to see if it is some weird bug or lack of cleaning/isolation players cannot detect using the germ overlay or if it is because some dupe sneezing next to another.

This might be hard to do, but maybe we could use imporvements to the counter showing sick dupes on the top. Instead of showing only sick ones it could show exposed dupes as well with the chance to get sick. An exposed to germs notification might be annoying but will help in identifying where the exposure happens (like allergic reaction when clicked fast enough shows you the dupe running past a buddy bud).

[Gwido]

2 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

I`m ok wiht the power requirements. It creates a challenge to mantain your power grid without overloads. With lower power consumption it would be super easy to make an electrolizer setup super early.

That's right.

Currently, it's the only real challenge in a standard game for those who already get enough water, oxygen and food supply.

 

2 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

I`d start with nerfing metal tiles. Leave the decor to designated decor buildings and metal tiles for heat transfer. Imo it should work like this. Early you build a lot of low tier artwork to keep the decor high and later you replace it with lower amount of higher tier decor items for the same effect.

Except furnitures, none of the buildings should give bonuses. These should only gives big maluses. And the only way to get positive decor value should be to fill the base with paintings, statues and plants.

It will also gives more interest in building a massage room. Currently, it's quite of no use. :-/

 

2 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

This might be hard to do, but maybe we could use imporvements to the counter showing sick dupes on the top. Instead of showing only sick ones it could show exposed dupes as well with the chance to get sick. An exposed to germs notification might be annoying but will help in identifying where the exposure happens (like allergic reaction when clicked fast enough shows you the dupe running past a buddy bud).

Diseases are too easy to handle, since the last update.

Slimelung don't even cause death anymore. :-/

 

 

According to me, here's what should be modified :

 

• More wounds sources : duplicants should hurt when falling, takes damade over time when sick, etc. Except starving and suffocating (which are easy to avoid) duplicants can't die. This system need to be reworked completely before the release. It's no more a survival game once we masterred the common systems to get oxygen, food and water.

 

• By default, if the player choose the "survival" mode, it should not gives the choice for the first duplicants, or when printing new ones. The only way to get an interesting game is to decide by ourself to not choose among the duplicants. Instead, it's easy to avoid allergic or flatulent duplicants (among other negative traits). Choosing the duplicants should only be possible in the "no sweat mode".

 

• Having less resources in the surroundings, so that exploring space gets a real use. Currently, it's possible to run a good base with 10 duplicants, without needing to explore space. :-/ (and please make the duplicants mining 100% of the resources. It's just not intuitive at the base)

 

• Talking of space. Each destinations should only have limited resources, so that the player will be forced to go deeper to get more materials. And rare materials should not be found in the very first destinations. Currently, it's possible to make infinite runs to the first asteroïds to get as many isoresin, niobium and fullerene as we want, with rockets equipped with 2 solid material tanks. It's way to easy :-/ (even if collecting enough isoresin to build just 10 insulated pipes is really boring)

 

• It was allready said, but the rockets needs to embark food for the astronauts. So that we can't leave the duplicant inside the command module forever... -_-

 

• In "survival" mode, we absolutely need random threats to handle. Ennemies, buildings that suddenly broke or being damaged for no reason (with few probability)

 

• And talking of threat, we AB-SO-LU-TE-LY need to get back meteor rains that brake the surface more and more along time, instead of just accumulating regolith on the surface ... -_-  It could also be great to have a special object impact that will come from time to time and that will be able to damage bunker tiles and doors.

[natanstarke]

3 hours ago, Gwido said:

That's right.

Currently, it's the only real challenge in a standard game for those who already get enough water, oxygen and food supply.

 

Except furnitures, none of the buildings should give bonuses. These should only gives big maluses. And the only way to get positive decor value should be to fill the base with paintings, statues and plants.

It will also gives more interest in building a massage room. Currently, it's quite of no use. :-/

 

Diseases are too easy to handle, since the last update.

Slimelung don't even cause death anymore. :-/

 

 

According to me, here's what should be modified :

 

• More wounds sources : duplicants should hurt when falling, takes damade over time when sick, etc. Except starving and suffocating (which are easy to avoid) duplicants can't die. This system need to be reworked completely before the release. It's no more a survival game once we masterred the common systems to get oxygen, food and water.

 

• By default, if the player choose the "survival" mode, it should not gives the choice for the first duplicants, or when printing new ones. The only way to get an interesting game is to decide by ourself to not choose among the duplicants. Instead, it's easy to avoid allergic or flatulent duplicants (among other negative traits). Choosing the duplicants should only be possible in the "no sweat mode".

 

• Having less resources in the surroundings, so that exploring space gets a real use. Currently, it's possible to run a good base with 10 duplicants, without needing to explore space. :-/ (and please make the duplicants mining 100% of the resources. It's just not intuitive at the base)

 

• Talking of space. Each destinations should only have limited resources, so that the player will be forced to go deeper to get more materials. And rare materials should not be found in the very first destinations. Currently, it's possible to make infinite runs to the first asteroïds to get as many isoresin, niobium and fullerene as we want, with rockets equipped with 2 solid material tanks. It's way to easy :-/ (even if collecting enough isoresin to build just 10 insulated pipes is really boring)

 

• It was allready said, but the rockets needs to embark food for the astronauts. So that we can't leave the duplicant inside the command module forever... -_-

 

• In "survival" mode, we absolutely need random threats to handle. Ennemies, buildings that suddenly broke or being damaged for no reason (with few probability)

 

• And talking of threat, we AB-SO-LU-TE-LY need to get back meteor rains that brake the surface more and more along time, instead of just accumulating regolith on the surface ... -_-  It could also be great to have a special object impact that will come from time to time and that will be able to damage bunker tiles and doors.

Meteor damage was just no fun at all, you contradicted yourself with less resources but 100% mining? Enemies have potential but probably will come only with dlcs. Astronauts needing food or at least they run of the capsule after a while there. Space for me is fine just need more interesting locations and rewards to achieve and this one we will probably have at launch. More wounds sources could be a step in the right direction indeed. Buildings breaking for nothing i dislike hard, the game is already duplicant heavy without needing to repair things everywhere, when i open space until everything is done it becomes a huge time sink of diggings and repairs. I like metal tiles giving decor, just think they should give less and metal tiles should be pretty anyway. 

 

7 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

Imo there should be some sort of refinement for rock. It doesn`t make sense to make a glass forge or smelter out of raw rock.

Slush could use a nerf but some of the gas geysers should be buffed like polluted oxygen, hydrogen, CO2, none of them produce meaningful amounts.

I don`t think it`s the animations affecting performance. It`s more about the pathing calculations, especially for flyers.

All of the morale stuff needs a rebalance. Either this or increase the morale needs. The balance would be hit if decor was an actual requirement both early and later in the game so that you`d have to make low tier artwork to keep morale high and then upgrade it to better art.

I`m ok wiht the power requirements. It creates a challenge to mantain your power grid without overloads. With lower power consumption it would be super easy to make an electrolizer setup super early.

I`d start with nerfing metal tiles. Leave the decor to designated decor buildings and metal tiles for heat transfer. Imo it should work like this. Early you build a lot of low tier artwork to keep the decor high and later you replace it with lower amount of higher tier decor items for the same effect.

This might be hard to do, but maybe we could use imporvements to the counter showing sick dupes on the top. Instead of showing only sick ones it could show exposed dupes as well with the chance to get sick. An exposed to germs notification might be annoying but will help in identifying where the exposure happens (like allergic reaction when clicked fast enough shows you the dupe running past a buddy bud).

Refine rocks could turn into a lot of nice stuffs indeed  i disagree on the decor only to decor buildings, everything have a beauty aspect always i just think the negative decor is too high in some places and the positive also to high in statues + they're now super easy to have shoulbe be random and the top tier ones gives less total decor. Only the big statures can have monster decor.

[Gwido]

34 minutes ago, natanstarke said:

Meteor damage was just no fun at all, 

You know, it's supposed to be a survival game.

For play without problems like meteor damage, there will be the "no sweat" mode.

 

35 minutes ago, natanstarke said:

you contradicted yourself with less resources but 100% mining?

Not at all. The two things are completely different.

Currently, a tile of 200 kg gives 100 kg.

I wish the amount in tiles to be nerfed, like 60 kg of material, and that it shows 60 kg instead of 120 kg. so that players are not lured about how many materials can be mined from a tile.  

[natanstarke]

8 hours ago, Gwido said:

You know, it's supposed to be a survival game.

For play without problems like meteor damage, there will be the "no sweat" mode.

 

Not at all. The two things are completely different.

Currently, a tile of 200 kg gives 100 kg.

I wish the amount in tiles to be nerfed, like 60 kg of material, and that it shows 60 kg instead of 120 kg. so that players are not lured about how many materials can be mined from a tile.  

But the laser should destroy some materials i guess never 100% mass. But yes as close to the total shown mass would be nice. Or just put tutorial infos clarifying that sort of stuff or not " if they want ppl to find it for themselves to have fun ".

Edit: i vote for better mining perks on skill or research that makes like 75% material viable. 

Thats the super good part of oni its very suitable to change and have fun.

Also theres a mod that gives all materials you dig up " the mod do not reduce the normal mass as you said it though". 

This is also another good points mods will appear to fulfill this flavours ppl may have lile yours or mines.