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babba

Still no AMD CPU as top single thread performer

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babba    509

As ONI is still mostly single threaded, this is a post of grief. Still no AMD single thread top performer. Also most top speed performers still have the same price as from 2 years ago ( i7 6700k 7700k 8700k 8086x 9900k ) !

BTW The Nvidia gag of the RX series is also saddening. It would be nice to see some decent speed improvements in the year 2021 or 2022 for average $$$

Intel & NV have become lame duck companies over the last 2 years IMHO, I wish there were some competitive products and companies. Maybe we are lucky in 2021 or 2022 with AMD. Touch wood.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

image.thumb.png.44a60dedea6c3e457e403b25b553f989.png

Edited by babba
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DustFireSky    113

CPU Core-Usage:

True words. I think, the max single-thread performance is nearly reached. The only things that can increase the performance is a tinier manufacturing process with a higher core clock. So u can reach with the same voltage higher clocks. Like it's been in the last 10 Years. An air cooled CPU has an heat sink limit.  But, we have nearly reached the limit. We can't go tinier in the future with the current technologies.

In my opinion, the problem is not the fact, that the single-thread performance is bad or is increased by little steps, rather the software developers are 10 years behind the technologies. Think about how much time it needs in the past to have all programs in 64Bit on an desktop environment. The same for 16Bit to 32Bit and the same for BIOS to UEFI. That are always processes by decades. Just a bunch of examples.

CPU will have more and more cores in the future on an bigger "Die". The saddest thing is the fact, that just a couple of applications can use the bunch of CPU cores. The most games and programs in the world are poorly at "using more than one core". We know, that not all games need multi-threading. Such as solitaire or similar.

In the past 7 years, the performance increase were laughable in my opinion. I said it in another thread: If I buy the best 6 Core CPU now (I have an I7 3930K) it will be 30-40% faster as mine. Think about the time period. 7 Years....

I can remember the good old times (Buy all two years a new system wasn't good :D), were u had a increase of round about 100% in two years at least.

Price madness:

The other fact is the madness of Intel and Nvidia now. I have never had a preferred manufacturer for a CPU or the GPU (I had all of them in the past), but what i learned was, don't buy Intel and don't buy Nvidia currently. I work in a IT company. They are crazy and test the consumers pain threshold. And all of the people who defend the practice haven't noticed what the result will be in the future. Extreme higher prices forever. It's in our hands to draw the limit and punish these practices with don't buying it. Think about it.

If u compare AMD vs. Nvidia or AMD vs. INTEL, the best answer is always the underdog. Price, politics, force progress and long life of the hardware (personal opinion). I can remember how quick the old 8800GTX died. After 2 Years the card was broken. I have never had an AMD/ATI card that ever died. And i had many cards in the past of both of them.

Another sad thing is always the consumers reactions. They are glad to have AMD, but they still buying all Nvidia or Intel. For me personally it is a very stupid move of them. The result we all can see now. Intel and Nvidia goes crazy. Low performance increase for much more money as before. The new cards for OVER 1000 $ are a punch in the face of everyone.

Multi-GPU System:

The best answer at the moment for the most games out there is a multi GPU system. U don't need a 1080GTX for 700 $. U can reach the same with cheaper cards and get more performance too! U pay 500 $ and get more. The problems at the beginning of the SLI/Crossfire systems were the bad support of DX9. The most DX9 games can't handle it or doing it very bad.  Now, with at least DX11 or DX12 games, they are fully supported by he OS, DirectX, drivers and the most games. I have by myself 2 cards in my system. The good old 7970 Lightning cards. They saved my ass over the last 7 years :D

Think about it.

If u bundle 2 x 1060 cards, u have the much more performance as an 1080GTX and u have paid lesser.

But! I would buy 2 x RX580 or RX590 cards at the moment. Were still better as the 1080GTX for much less money.

So, now think about why Nvidia will drop the multi GPU support in the future ? See u some coherence's ?

They want to force the people to buy the high price crap. Most of the 1060 cards haven't the SLI possibility. So, long life AMD! Get great again!

And personally, the colors at AMD GPU Cards are much more better. Maybe it is delusion.

 

 

Edited by DustFireSky
Typo
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babba    509

Thank you for your input, DiskFireSky. I may want to add that ONI greatly benefits from large 1,2,3 level cache`s, one of the upper hands of Intel cpus. Intel is regular increase cache sizes, to cover up that there is little cpu improvements. Next to their gimmicks of activating/deactivating cores or hyperthreading. Customers are milked to the max, end of rant ! Wish I could beam myself 40 years ahead, running the entire ONI game in CPU cache memory :D

Edited by babba

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DustFireSky    113
13 minutes ago, babba said:

Wish I could beam myself 40 years ahead, running the entire ONI game in CPU cache memory :D

Sure, but u pay then 3000$ for the CPU. :D At least, of course! End of daydreaming.

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D.L.S.    55

If i'm not wrong, AMD will release 32 core 64 threads desktop CPU in this year, future for multi-threading, but when this future will come... It is easier, faster so cheaper write single-thread application, so devs just go the path of less resistant.

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On 11-1-2019 at 8:16 PM, DustFireSky said:

True words. I think, the max single-thread performance is nearly reached. The only things that can increase the performance is a tinier manufacturing process with a higher core clock. So u can reach with the same voltage higher clocks. Like it's been in the last 10 Years. An air cooled CPU has an heat sink limit.  But, we have nearly reached the limit. We can't go tinier in the future with the current technologies.

 

Ah you mean something like Moore's law? Well, current technology is all based on silicon. The theoritical limit is 0.2 nm in the case of silicon. We are currently at 14 nm on released intel products, this year I believe there are going to be 10 nm chips, IBM has already produced 5 nm chips for none commercial ends (meaning they can't mass produce those yet), and Samsung claims to able to build 4nm chips by 2020. So we are closing in on the limit, and at each step it will take considerable more time- and resource-consuming to get to the next step and be able to mass produce it. And after we'll have to go for radical new technology in order to produce even better chips.

On 11-1-2019 at 8:16 PM, DustFireSky said:

But! I would buy 2 x RX580 or RX590 cards at the moment. Were still better as the 1080GTX for much less money.

 

One caviat to that: your energy bill :D.

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DustFireSky    113
7 hours ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

One caviat to that: your energy bill :D.

I read this very often. How much time you play in the year in hours ? Run the card under 100% load in every game ?  The most time the PC and his components are idling. And the idle power consumption is like all the other manufacturers minimal. And Intel, Nvidia and AMD are all energy pigs under load. So, for me personally is the energy factor not important. Ecological is no one of them :D

And another side note. Think about how much people waste energy because of mining! These people don't interest of energy costs or the energy bill. They lost money through mining and don't get money. I think they should use the CPU/GPU power for calculating for research. Wasted money too, but it is useful. :) And for the Area 51 people, they could support SETI :D

7 hours ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

The theoritical limit is 0.2 nm in the case of silicon. We are currently at 14 nm on released intel products

I read in the past that Intel has at the moment many problems with the 7nm process. They build a own factory for this. If I am mistaken. The interesting question is what will happen if we reach the limit ? Stagnation ? I can just repeat, what I said: "The software industry must rethink the techniques" The software by its own could be better as now. More cores are good, but if u cannot use them in the most applications, they are pretty useless.

Edited by DustFireSky

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