QuQuasar Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 This was a fun build. It looks hideous, but it was fun. And compact. Maybe even useful? We'll see... tl;dr, for people who want to skip to the conclusion: Spoiler It works, but it's unnecessarily complicated. I severely underestimated the rate of temperature transfer between the wheezewort room and the oxygen tunnel: all the doors and automation elements in the build are completely unnecessary. Running the oxygen past 6 tungsten tiles is more than enough to cool it. How it works On the left hand side of the build we have a fairly standard self-powering electrolyzer. Hydrogen floats up to the topmost pump, oxygen down to the bottom two. The hydrogen generator converts the hydrogen to power to continue running the electrolyzer and pumps. The Electrolyzer Room The valve on the hydrogen pipe is set to 400 grams/second, allowing a tiny bit of extra hydrogen to be siphoned off for storage. It's still self-powering without it. I'm using it to make sure the wheezewort room stays topped up with hydrogen, since the worts have an annoying tendency to eat gases when you save and load the game. The oxygen, meanwhile, is pumped through to the super-compressor. Since a high pressure gas-vent is necessary here, you will need plastic for this build. The Supercompressor The compressor continually pushes oxygen from the vent to the 2x1 space with the thermo sensor in it. Gradually, this space will fill up with an absolutely ridiculous amount of oxygen. The heat from incoming oxygen (from the vent) will be constant: 888 grams at 70 degrees celcius. Meanwhile, the rate of temperature transfer between the oxygen and the tungsten tiles below it will gradually increase, as the oxygen's density increases. After a while it will start to cool, and the cooling will only accelerate as the pressure continues to climb. The cooling itself comes from the wheezewort room, which contains 4 wheezeworts in pressurized hydrogen. Very pressurized hydrogen. The Wheezewort Room Like the oxygen, temperature transfer is limited by density. I can't tell you how much exactly will be needed, just keep pumping the stuff in until you can't get any more through the vent. In addition to the temperature transfer across the tungsten tiles, the pipe radiator in the background also helps pre-cool the oxygen. The pipes are made of granite. Priming the system for the first time will take a lot of cycles, during which time the oxygen pressure will continue to build up. This is okay: eventually the system will reach the designated temperature, and the vaccum seal will open. The Vaccum Seal This seal will open when the device is fully primed, exploding thousands of kilograms of pressurized oxygen, cooled to a nice comfortable temperature, directly into your base. Because nothing says "comfort" quite like a pressurized gas explosion. After this, the machine will continue to operate. The vaccum seal will not close again, at first. At second, it will continue to not close. At third, the not-closing might start to worry you. You might begin to realise that the entire structure is continuing to cool past what you expected, with oxygen being continually emitted at around 13... 12... 11... degrees, and that the whole business with the supercompressor and the vaccum seal was, in point of actual fact, an absolute waste of time. This entire device could have been built with no automation, no doors, and simply a tunnel leading from the vent to outside. At this point, you might be inclined to turn the game off and take a break. You might even consider not submitting the detailed post you just spent an hour writing on the subject of this exceedingly pointless device. Eh. "Submit Topic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roboson Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Assuming changes in the occupational upgrade haven't messed this up, he'res one in my old base that uses a tiny hydrogen hood to separate the gases. Automation isn't particularly needed for a self-powered oxygen unit, this one is is fairly compact, runs off its own hydrogen production, and exports energy to the grid. The only concern is it gets warm after about 50 cycles, so don't build it where I did lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parusoid Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 6 hours ago, QuQuasar said: How it works Hydrogen floats up to the topmost pump, oxygen down to the bottom two. How in a world those two gasses are not mixing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuQuasar Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 4 hours ago, Roboson said: Assuming changes in the occupational upgrade haven't messed this up, he'res one in my old base that uses a tiny hydrogen hood to separate the gases. Automation isn't particularly needed for a self-powered oxygen unit, this one is is fairly compact, runs off its own hydrogen production, and exports energy to the grid. The only concern is it gets warm after about 50 cycles, so don't build it where I did lol. The goal of this build was cooled oxygen production specifically. If I just want to create oxygen, this is my preferred design for now: Based on these experiments though, I'm inclined to think that combining oxygen production and cooling is an inefficient approach. It's better and more space efficient to build small passive cooling rooms, fill them with hydrogen, and install wheezeworts in them where you need cooling. Although... Hmm. Okay, now I'm having a really dumb idea. I was assuming there would be absolutely no way to cool the oxygen before it left the electrolyzer's chamber. After all, the whole goal of that chamber is to keep the electrolyzer from overpressurizing: it pumps oxygen out of the room as quickly as it possibly can. But the temperature transfer rate with tungsten tiles and doors and all of that automation stuff in there (which were also conducting temperature through the tiles, so at least they weren't entirely useless) proved to be exponentially higher than I expected. Maybe, if I can get enough cooling into those two airflow tiles, I can cool the outgoing oxygen before it even leaves. That will also mean cooling the hydrogen, though. Which could be a problem, since any heat taken out of the hydrogen is a waste. I guess I'll just have to try it and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabrute Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 pumps are 100% efficient in the OC so 2 pumps and a filter is actually more power efficient and gas efficient Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuQuasar Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Kabrute said: pumps are 100% efficient in the OC so 2 pumps and a filter is actually more power efficient and gas efficient Thanks to the atmo sensors, each of my three pumps only pump when the atmosphere is dense enough to support them, so my total cost is 240 watts per 500 grams. Two pumps plus a mechnical filter would cost exactly the same amount of power per gram. Two pumps plus a powered filter would cost more. It's possible they could evacuate the gas from the chamber more quickly by being closer which would reduce how often the electrolyzer is interrupted by the 'max pressure' warning. The build would also be more compact, and constructable without researching basic automation/brute force refinement, so it might be worth investigating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuQuasar Posted February 13, 2018 Author Share Posted February 13, 2018 6 hours ago, Parusoid said: How in a world those two gasses are not mixing? ONI physics. Specifically the fluid exclusion principle (a tile can only contain one type of gas at a time) and something about how gas weights affect how gas is allowed to travel (oxygen is heavier than hydrogen, so it can never displace the hydrogen on that lip where the atmo sensor is). I don't question it. It works, that's good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roboson Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Yeah my earlier post was one built for maximized efficiency. It only runs one gas pump (for hydrogen into the generator) and a water pump (into the electrolizer) and uses and atmo-sensor to make sure it runs at max efficiency. The oxygen is naturally pushed out into the base as more is created. Exports power in addition to oxygen. Not sure if that can be achieved with a cooling element included, but it's certainly more efficient than closed system approaches with lots of pumps and filters and bells and whistles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelflame Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 If you build your Electrolizer system directly next to a Nullifier, and set it to only take excess Hydrogen (which the system produces in abundance thanks to Smart Batteries optimizing the Hydrogen generators extremely well and preventing wasted power gen that was the problem on the tubular patch due to them frequently wasting power gen because they used more hydrogen than they needed) a 2 electrolizer 2 hydrogen gen setup can pump all of the oxygen through the nullifier room at a chilly -200 degrees even without optimization, and then pump that out into the general base. It will generally pump out at around -30F or so, which is absolutely fine for general usage, and infact is COOLING my cold biome, so its at 0F or so by the time it reaches my base. The system produces more power than it uses by far, and has enough excess hydrogen generated to power multiple nullifiers as a result, great for cooling a secondary application such as the Natural gas input for my NG plant, which, thanks to the low entry temp of the nat gas thanks to the nullifier, can be used to cool several other applications in other locations thanks to it outputting extremely cold (just above freezing) PW and (just above condensation) CO2, before both of those materials are "deleted" with whatever heat they had when they pass through the CO2 skimmers/Fert makers and utilize the fact that both of those output at either fixed temps (in the case of the Fert maker) or a different easy to control temp (the CO2 skimmer doesn't care about the CO2 temp at all, only the water temp decides it's output temp). You can literally get 100% of your base's cooling needs handled by the waste products of your electrolziers now, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terzsian Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 9 hours ago, QuQuasar said: The goal of this build was cooled oxygen production specifically. If I just want to create oxygen, this is my preferred design for now: Based on these experiments though, I'm inclined to think that combining oxygen production and cooling is an inefficient approach. It's better and more space efficient to build small passive cooling rooms, fill them with hydrogen, and install wheezeworts in them where you need cooling. Although... Hmm. Okay, now I'm having a really dumb idea. I was assuming there would be absolutely no way to cool the oxygen before it left the electrolyzer's chamber. After all, the whole goal of that chamber is to keep the electrolyzer from overpressurizing: it pumps oxygen out of the room as quickly as it possibly can. But the temperature transfer rate with tungsten tiles and doors and all of that automation stuff in there (which were also conducting temperature through the tiles, so at least they weren't entirely useless) proved to be exponentially higher than I expected. Maybe, if I can get enough cooling into those two airflow tiles, I can cool the outgoing oxygen before it even leaves. That will also mean cooling the hydrogen, though. Which could be a problem, since any heat taken out of the hydrogen is a waste. I guess I'll just have to try it and see. Once I did a ridiculous build in debug mode where I cooled the whole unit to the point that oxygen instantly liquified when it left the electrolizer. Then I went even further and it instantly solidified. Oh, that rattling sound of solid oxygen jumping around! And then all the pipes started to break. Ofcourse I had to use a borg cube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Miner Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 One pump, one gas filter. Adjust the number of active electrolysers and openings at the sides and in the floor. The majority of generated oxygen just flows out and gets cooled when mixing with the cold stream from the cooling cells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabrute Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 I take it that the pump is purely for hydrogen use only, as such this build tends to run highly overpressured unless you have very specific situations such as a 30 dupe bases bedrooms right beneath this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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