[Gameplay] Only The Forgotten Are Truly Dead

[Zillvr]

On default, ghost players on survival servers can exist as long as there is a living player anywhere in the world. Then when that last living player dies, the world reset clock will start counting down from two minutes(120s). From my understanding, survival mode is the game mode of DST that must be strictly played co-op. So any deviation from cooperative gameplay is frowned upon. Unfortunately there are times when an unruly player just comes into the survival server not to survive but to simply ruin everyone's day. Often times, these destructive players make use of the global sanity drain to make things worse for everyone else playing on the server spiraling everyone down to their doom. 
 
To combat such game breaking assault(exploiting global sanity drain to kill server) on survival dedicated servers, I'd like to propose the idea that "Only The Forgotten Are Truly Dead" wherein , for ghost players to continue to exist in the survival world, people must remember/see them. This entails three states: Remembered, Fading, Forgotten. 

 

I've thought of two ways for this. I'll categorize them as RULE SETS. These RULE SETS are entirely independent of each other. Like two separate lines of thought. RULE SET B is easier I think.

• Remembered State:
  • RULE SET A: For any ghost player that should be Seen first by any living player before the ghost players will be considered Remembered. For ghost players to be considered as Seen, they must be within the living player's action range. The ghost players must stay still and be close enough to a living player(wherein the living player would be able to give a tell-tale heart without moving) for 5 seconds before their state switches from Fading state to Remembered state. Once a ghost player is in their Remembered state, they may continue to exist in the server for as long as they are in this state and WITHIN the living player's player indication range(not necessarily on the same screen anymore) or until they get revived or until the server fully resets.
  • RULE SET B: A ghost player will be considered as Remembered when a living player examines/interacts with the ghost. The ghost will then switch from their Fading State to Remembered State. Remembered State has a duration of two(2) in-game days. If ghost gets examined while in a Remembered state, it doesn't restart the Remembered State Duration. Only ghosts in Fading States can be examined/interacted/remembered. 
• Fading State:
  • RULE SET A: For any ghost player that is no longer within a living player's player indication range for even a split second, they will be considered as Fading. Their state immediately switches from Remembered to Fading once the living player's player indication is gone from the ghost player's screen. During the Fading state, a countdown Fade Clock will appear for the ghost player to signify that they are Fading from existence. The countdown will be much like the world reset clock counting down from two minutes(120s). Once this count down ends their state will change from Fading to Forgotten.
  • RULE SET B: A ghost player will be considered as Fading, if and only if their Remembered State Duration ends. Once the Remembered State Duration ends, a Fading State Duration starts counting down. The Fading State will have a duration of only 1 in-game day. If the Fading State Duration ends and ghost player still hasn't been Remembered/Examined/Interacted by a living player, their state will switch from Fading to Forgotten.
• Forgotten State:
  • RULE SET A & B: Once Forgotten, these ghost players will simply fade from existence in that server and be Banned for as long as the server has not reset yet. If the server world resets, the ban list also resets. Thereby all previously Forgotten Player Ghosts can join the server again. Banning forgotten players will differentiate the survival mode from other game modes(so they wouldn't be able to join again and start over in the same server on the same map). This will really truly feel like once you truly die in a world, you can't play on that same world anymore much like how Don't Starve is.

If these were implemented, the following situations will occur:

• RULE SET A:
  • Destructive ghost players on survival dedicated servers can no longer exist without being near other living players. If they chose to escape living players (that would be trying to revive them so the global sanity drain would stop) to try and exploit the global sanity drain to spiral the server down to its doom, they wouldn't be able to maximize it since they won't exist long enough to do so.
  • AFK ghost players will be obsolete, wherein living players can decide to make them fade away by distancing themselves from the ghost player thereby removing them from their player indication range until the AFK ghost players will be completely Forgotten(Banned) until the world ends up resetting.
  • Hopeless ghost players will be manageable, these ghost players are players that were actively trying to survive but died and lost hope and just hang around the world without doing anything productive and just draining everyone's sanity.
  • Both living and ghost players will stay relatively close to each other or avoid exploring alone that run the risk of dying too far from a living player. Players must now work relative close together to survive. 
  • Ghost players will try their best to find living players so they can be revived if they want to continue playing on a Survival Server. (It is a survival server after all, not a ghost party. Ghost parties are held in the Endless Servers.)​
• ​RULE SET B:
  • ​Living players have the prerogative to Remember ghost players, or just leave them to Fade away out of existence if they wish to do so.
  • It will reduce AFK, Hopeless and Destructive Players all together which would be simply all decided by living players in the same servers. Wouldn't that be awesome?

​That's the entirety of my suggestion, If anyone has anything more to add or have figured out a loophole or an exploit to this, let me know down below. Cheers.

 

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Notes:

• I'm aware that player-hosted dedicated servers will be available soon, so thing whole suggestion may seem unnecessary. Source: Player-Hosted Dedicated Servers
• That is why this suggestion is strictly for Klei's Dedicated Survival Servers, as a work around for not having a way to combat(no host/admin to kick/ban) unruly players in the server that intentionally commit suicide to exploit the global sanity drain or unproductive player ghosts.
• Global sanity drain should still exist and continue to penalize all players globally, this suggestion is simply to have a way to manage unruly player ghosts.
• All time durations are variables and up to debate for balance.
• Player State names(Remembered, Fading, Forgotten) are placeholders and up to debate.
• If this would seem out of place on default DST, maybe as as mod instead so future player-hosted dedicated servers can have these features that would be extremely helpful managing unruly players whenever the server admin isn't available for a long while.
• For other ghost related suggestions, read my other thread:  Introduce Ghost Warding Options To Combat Ghost Griefers
• Lastly, thanks for reading.

[GalloViking]

Interesting. Even if I don't play DST, I like this idea for gosts, it's more realistic that what it actually is ingame.

[avilmask]

Ghosts still can run away in a radius of screen near another players. It's not like you can freeze ghost on place to revive.

Concept of making a grave/unrest bones is more functional for that kind of griefing (check this out). With an item to detect ghost you will be able to look for bones and ghosts. And also an item, that will speed up fading of a ghost when used on bones or on a ghost.

So new griefer-players just will be a part of surviving challenge (detect bones, make ghost harmless). And harmless ghost will be unable to make any damage until server resets, because none will revive him. Players that want to keep playing, but for some reason avoiding it, gonna be penalised with low maximum health after reviving. And it feels easier to make then all that stuff with detecting radiuses of vision and timers, basing on server side of it.

[Zillvr]

@avilmask: 

Ghosts still can run away in a radius of screen near another players. 

I understand, then I'll change the conditions of being "Seen" from being within the same screens to being close enough for a tell-tale heart to be given. (I'll edit my OP in detail)

 

So new griefer-players just will be a part of surviving challenge (detect bones, make ghost harmless). 

I understand what you are getting at. I highly suggest you lay out all your ideas in another thread, I'm quite curious about the specific details of your ideas. 

[avilmask]

>I understand, then I'll change the conditions of being "Seen" from being within the same screens to being close enough for a tell-tale heart to be given. (I'll edit my OP in detail)

 

It's the same as autokick/ban from the server if player wasn't revived after period of time (120 sec) Actually, not a bad idea for a MOD.

I'll make a thread about my idea on all that ghost stuff.

[Zillvr]

@avilmask,

I've greatly altered my OP. Just thought of an easier way to do what I'm hoping for. Give it a read when you can, and let me know what you think of the RULE SET B. (RULE SET A and RULE SET B are entirely isolated from each other.)

[avilmask]

Kind of annoying to be forced to return to base when you're a ghost, because as a ghost you have unlimited scouting capabilities. It hurts a fair play.

[Zillvr]

@avilmask, Players aren't supposed to stay as ghosts for too long. Unlimited scouting isn't fair at all, gameplay wise. There should be a limit, sure maybe bump up the Fade State Duration and Remembered State a few days. Which ever seems more balanced. I did say on the fourth bullet on the Notes list, that all times are variables and up for debate. 
 
How long do you think it's reasonable before a ghost player needs to be "Remembered" by a living player?
 
One way or another, I still think there should be a limit of how far apart a ghost player can go away from a living player and not be penalized for it. Ghosts aren't even penalized for being ghosts. Sure they lose max health when they get revived by a tell-tale heart etc. But fact is being ghosts, to the ghost player themselves has no drawbacks WHILE they are ghosts. So limiting their scouting ability by having that possibility of being banned from the server if you don't work together with living players.
 
It's a survival server. You're suppose to survive not floating around forever. Cheers.

[Mysanthil]

You and your novels.

But I'm always hesitant to suggest/support complicated ideas. If I was a dev, I'd look for the simplest elegant solutions, both code-wise and mechanics-wise. 

 

Also, there is a votekick system in the works. It was hiddenly implemented, and I know Rez's modded server uses it. I haven't tried it otherwise though.

[Zillvr]

@Mysanthil, Sorry... 
I'm that type of poster that always contradict myself and try to fill in every possible hole I can think of. I'll tone them down next time, if ever there is a next time.
 
And yeah, I was able to experience Rez's vote kick/ban back on the old Maxwell's Playground. Took a good long while and a lot of tries before everyone could vote on the same thing though. It got the job done at least.

[rezecib]

Interesting and well-thought-out suggestion, as always, Zillvr

 

But I think I agree with Mysanthil on this one. While your system sounds interesting and nuanced, it's essentially solving the same problem as votekick would, if votekick were actually functional. But I suppose that system does have its own problems (although thoaw would hopefully be solved with a better interface for it than what I could do with Maxwell's Playground).

 

To consider some more alternatives, bringing back the old Humanity system would also essentially solve this problem. The main flaw with it before, from my perspective, was that it didn't ban you when you dissipated, it just sent you back to character select. Implementing your solution would necessarily mean implementing that, so enabling the humanity system from before along with that would be a convenient way to test it. Now that we have game modes, they could easily throw it into a new game mode to see how people like/dislike it without "destroying" a current game mode if it turns out to be awful.

[Zillvr]

@rezecib, Thanks rez. But I believe I've put a little too much thought into it. lol

Anyhow, I wasn't able to experience the humanity thing but from how you describe it, I think that would sit right with me as long as ghosts get fixed or balanced or reworked somehow.