Steam Turbine - How to make it a viable but still interesting option

[Hexicube]

Right now the steam turbine is extremely finicky to get actual power from it, with its best function actually being a heat deletion tool more than anything else. The reason for this is two-fold: It moves massive quantities of steam, and does not condense that steam. Any attempts to use the steam turbine are always coupled with a requirement of somehow moving the steam back down below it, which is very hard to do on its 2kW budget (if possible at all; best "legitimate" way I can think of is condensing and pumping water back down).

There's a number of ways to solve this, but here's my take on it:

• Keep the in-world steam mechanic, as well as the pressure requirement
• The engine will consume a variable amount depending on spin-up, peaking at 5kg/s when fully active
• Steam is condensed to 95C water, that goes to an outlet instead of into the world
• The power output depends on the temperature of the steam

The last part is where I think it can be interesting. Instead of being a fixed 2kW machine, it should instead generate up to 2kW based on temperature. Anything below 150C will not condense the steam, below 200C generates no power, 250C will generate the full 2kW (wasting the excess), and in-between values are a linear relationship (40W per 1C). You then have the option between getting the most out of your turbine (full 2kW), or getting the most out of your heat (staying below 250C).

Additionally, a maximum temperature could be enforced, where it will not remove more than a certain number of degrees from the steam (-200C, making 300C the cap), causing heat damage to the exit pipe as the water boils off. The exit pipe could be strategically placed so that the steam from that damage does not end up cooling the input steam.

These changes would turn the steam turbine into a multi-purpose tool. It would remain an effective heat deletion tool (-80k DTU/s from an AETN is less than you think), and would become the power generation tool that it's supposed to be in the first place, instead of just being a gimmick that requires awkward mechanics to be energy-positive at all (door pumps or hydrogen chamber). If you don't care about the power, you can just drop the output water back on your hot place below the turbine. If you do want power, you can create an automated control system so that it doesn't activate when the temperature is low. Either way, the real challenge with the steam turbine should be finding the heat to harness, not fighting its backwards mechanics.

[Hexicube]

I've had additional ideas on the matter. Here's my new thought on how it could work:

• Steam is accepted in-world like it is now; but without the pressure and temperature requirements
• Pulled in steam is reduced by some flat temperature (50C?), but will not drop below 100C (see below)
• If there is less than 10kg/s of steam to pull in, power output is drastically reduced (linear relation to 0W at 8kg/s?)
• Steam which hits 100C is condensed, and goes into an output pipe
• Steam which is condensed produces a reduced amount of power, each degree offering 20W (half as efficient per degree)
• Steam which stays above 100C is dumped out above it, like it is currently; this means you'd have to build a nice tall stack to make the most of the heat
• The turbine requires a constant 500W to operate the pumps, instead of being pressure based; spin-up remains, requiring constant power

With something like this, you would need to design active controls for steam power, adding automation sensors detecting pressure and temperature to make sure the turbine will actually produce power before letting it draw the 500W to spin up and then operate.

It could be used as a tool to delete heat in this form, but considering there are already a bunch of options for this (sieve 40C output, maps with cool slush geysers, etc.), I don't see it as a bad thing. If anything, it makes the most sense for removing heat, as you are actively trying to turn that heat into power. It's easier and more powerful, sure, but it's also a pretty late-game building and simply using a seed with a slush geyser is far more potent (tuner to >100C then sieve).

It would also be a lot more interesting power-wise, requiring tall stacks of turbines to deal with hot steam and requiring active control to make sure the steam supply is appropriate. It would also work with existing steam designs, with a small change made to feed it the required 500W and to add a little bit of automation wiring to the entire to control it.

[babba]

I have marked in green color what always keeps me from using the steam engine and what would make it more casual to use for "casual" ONI players.

2 hours ago, Hexicube said:

I've had additional ideas on the matter. Here's my new thought on how it could work:

• Steam is accepted in-world like it is now; but without the pressure and temperature requirements
• Pulled in steam is reduced by some flat temperature (50C?), but will not drop below 100C (see below)
• If there is less than 10kg/s of steam to pull in, power output is drastically reduced (linear relation to 0W at 8kg/s?)
• Steam which hits 100C is condensed, and goes into an output pipe
• Steam which is condensed produces a reduced amount of power, each degree offering 20W (half as efficient per degree)
• Steam which stays above 100C is dumped out above it, like it is currently; this means you'd have to build a nice tall stack to make the most of the heat
• The turbine requires a constant 500W to operate the pumps, instead of being pressure based; spin-up remains, requiring constant power

...

 

[Hexicube]

I actually like that part of how steam turbines work, I'd rather not see it become another generic in-out machine.

[Coolthulhu]

Steam turbines being infinite and powerful heat destroyer is not a good thing. We already have tons of creative ways to destroy heat. Steam turbines are different from the others in that they are practically infinite, able to destroy any amount of heat that an aquatuner can output.

Reliance on pressure just makes it rely on door compression exploit. ONI physics are inherently incompatible with usage of pressure as energy source.

The actual idea to fix the steam turbine is to require a heat sink for it and make it provide power when it equalizes heat between source and sink. Without heat difference requirement, they will never be truly fixed. It can be a requirement to provide cooling liquid or to cool the building itself. It could be a requirement to condense the water instead, but so far no one provided a good idea on how to require condensing the water without relying on unfixably broken pressure-to-power schemes.

[Hexicube]

The problem with that is that, other than the steam turbine, there is no powerful heat sink that is guaranteed to be in a world. AETNs are not nearly as powerful as the -80k DTU/s suggests, and cold geysers are not guaranteed.

The other half of it is that you are never balancing it if the design for it is balancing out a heat gradient. Either it produces more power than it takes to run a tuner (free power), or it produces less (can't use if the seed sucks).

There's nothing wrong with heat deleting buildings, the steam turbine is already that, the only thing changing is that it would actually be usable the way it was intended to be used.