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Interesting externality for Steam Turbine


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Steam turbines in real life capture the output steam and condense it for recycling. Given the game’s mechanics, it’s very difficult to enforce such usage when the steam is output the top of the device.  So, why not enforce it with explicit inputs and outputs?

* steam below as now, except nothing above

* input pipe for coolant with a new type of restriction: it is < 95 degrees

* output pipe for coolant at 95 degrees

* 2ndary output pipe for water at 95 degrees

* coolant and water output is dependent on the specific heat capacity of the coolant and it’s temperature. I.e. how much heat can it take on before reaching 95 degrees

Beyond those basics, there is a lot to play with. How much dtus disappear - if any? How much coolant do you need to keep it running? Do you still want it to prime up when new coolant can’t keep up with heat being transferred?

It’s an interesting externality because it’s hard to get good volunes of cold coolant. The steam engine is no longer simply a heat deleter.

Doing the math on the current behavior: you need 4.8 MDTU/s to condense the current output of steam turbine (assuming 10kg/s output at 215 degrees after heat exchange with the turbine is done). I have some clever, non-explotity ways to cut that in a quarter (recycle heat to reheat the condensed steam). And some exploit-y ways to cut that by another fifth (block tiles to make the output 2kg/s). That’s still 240 kdtu. 20 wheezeworts to make a slightly hacky legitimate condensing steam turbine. I think most people will opt for all-out hacks, which are improbable to remove. 

I guess the result will be people will use aquatuner for the coolant. That’s probably not bad if it can’t be used to generate power in this way. Even with supercoolant. But, that puts severe caps. Then it can be treated as:

1. A heat deleter that costs power (to fund the aquatuner)

2. A way to use excessively hot and cold areas to produce some power.

My math above suggests that a single water aquatuner could keep things running. Meaning it’s net positive energy without the need for external cold stuffs. Maybe that’s fine too.

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As I have already stated in another thread, I think it would be important if the evaporation energy and melting energy were simulated in ONI.

Especiallly when dealing with phase changes, I think it would be very important to simulate this.

That way, in order to boil 1000 kg of water that is 50°C, you will need to invest only 209 MJ to heat up the water to its boiling point of 100°C, but 2257 MJ (ten times more energy) to actually boil it, i.e. to make the actual phase change.

Since the energy due to the phase difference is so much higher than the energy due to the heat difference, it does not make sense that ONI neglects it completely. A steam turbine gets most of its energy from the phase difference, not the temperature difference.

If the evaporation energy were simulated, then phase changes inside pipes would be much less of an issue, since the phase change would be gradual, due to the massive amounts of heat energy required for the phase change. Then there also would also be less need for an explicit input gas pipe and output liquid pipe.

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Agreed. But, that’s a bit more of a drastic change. I was thinking a simple change that works with the current mechanics of the game would really make this late game item shine.

Next, you’ll expect phase transitions to happen at different temperatures based on pressure and then you’ll want partial pressures! The game has never pretended to teach good physics. Unless you count, “getting it totally wrong” to be a good starter lesson. The game would never become entry level approachable with more complex concepts.

I really think that the developer idea of clear and plentiful externalities makes the game quite fun. It will make the final product a good game.

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7 hours ago, Gwido said:

I think it's more interesting to have a more powerfull pump that can suck more steam and handle a high temperature, so that we can return hot steam in the system. ;)

Recycle the heat and condense the steam. A liquid pump does 20 times more than a gas pump!

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If the turbine had inputs and outputs like that it would be a little more noob friendly which i think it needs. But doing so we break all the current designs that utilize it so maybe it should be a separate building. You coud put it above your steam turbines and use to condense all the steam that`s too cold to power the turbines.

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On 10/16/2018 at 8:16 AM, Gwido said:

Yeah, I now. And it's what I do. But ... the water has to be heat anew ... -_-

It's not very efficient. :-/

I feel I got it pretty efficient. I don't know what sort of efficiency you're looking for:

 

5 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

If the turbine had inputs and outputs like that it would be a little more noob friendly which i think it needs. But doing so we break all the current designs that utilize it so maybe it should be a separate building. You coud put it above your steam turbines and use to condense all the steam that`s too cold to power the turbines.

I haven't seen any turbine designs that don't rely on pressure tricks, door tricks or heat tricks. Those are bugs, as far as I'm concerned. Break them at will!

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