smart battery percentage

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

Does a smart battery sitting in a power circuit with normal 40kJ batteries reads its own power for the logic input, or is the percentage a reflection of the maximum power able to be stored on the power circuit?

Let me explain further: I recently am contemplating to divert surplus energy generated at the asteroid surface to my main base. I do have a set of a parameters under which it does so to avoid power shortage during or shortly after meteor storms, one of which is if the capacity drops down to 87.5%, power supply to the main base is cut off. To maximize power storage, I choosed to opt for the normal 40kJ battery because they have double the capacity of the smart battery. However, because only the smart battery has logic output, I am afraid that I'd be diverting power to my main base when in reality the battery banks are only half charged, which could create said power outages if meteor showers consecutively come in at bad times.

[Djoums]

A smart battery only looks at its own charge, there's no global automation readily available. That said, its charge is dependant on the global battery bank because the power it receives or spends is shared by every battery on the circuit.

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

Just now, Djoums said:

A smart battery only looks at its own charge, there's no global automation readily available.

Yeah that was what I was afraid of. So the automation happens at 20kJ and not 40kJ. I will have to set up a much more complex system now to get to the same parameters. I was thinking of 2 smart batteries with one decoupled off the power circuit and will only be connected to the power again if the other battery is fully charged. But that can go wrong in a whole lot of ways.

[Saturnus]

There's several ways to resolve this,

An easy one would be to just have as many transformers as you need to isolate the solar power bank from your normal heavi-watt wire power system. Then you'd still only need a single battery to turn on your power generators when the solar bank runs completely dry.

Note. If your system doesn't have 20KW peak power but only 12KW, you'd naturally only need 3 transformers.

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

51 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

There's several ways to resolve this,

An easy one would be to just have as many transformers as you need to isolate the solar power bank from your normal heavi-watt wire power system. Then you'd still only need a single battery to turn on your power generators when the solar bank runs completely dry.

Note. If your system doesn't have 20KW peak power but only 12KW, you'd naturally only need 3 transformers.

That would be ideal, but in my case difficult. My current power generation is twofold:

-Organized power supply through solar power and storage for my surface/rocket base, with emphasis on maximizing power generation and storage with enough buffer to get through meteor showers (and very importantly also enough stored power to get the bunker doors powered right after the shower).

-Chaotic power supply through fuel (hydrogen, coal, gas, petroleum) burning and less power storage for my main base, with emphasis on matching power supply to power demand.

I currently can't have one dominant power generation type and one in a supportive role. Should my solar banks run dry, I probably will not generate enough to "fossil" power all of the opening/closing bunker doors, and my solar power generation will probably also not be enough to provide both the main base and the surface base of enough power. Leading to this kind of "incompatibility". Due to that, I have to think in terms of using excess solar power instead of turning on fuel generators during power dips. For the latter, smart batteries are exactly what you need because you need to pick up on energy low points, but for the former they are not ideal because you need pick up on the energy high points which are higher than the 20kJ max charge of a smart battery. Again, I choose for normal batteries regarding my solar banks because they can store double the amount than smart batteries.

The idea really is that any excess power generated beyond the solar banks capacity, flows to the main base. That can work in my case as it will further reduce consumption of things like gas and petroleum. Your idea will infact work to keep my circuits from overloading (I think with both heavi watt circuits connected I am close to overloading), but that still leaves me what a need to only activate power drain from the solar banks when the average battery charge reaches 40kJ and deactivates when that same charge drops below something like 37.5kJ

[Saturnus]

You could just bite the bullet and make your battery bank of smart batteries. That'd also reduce the run off by quite a lot so the total capacity wouldn't need to be as high.

With normal large batteries you need an additional battery for every 20 batteries to cover the run off. With smart batteries it's one for every 50. So you don't quite need twice as many batteries.

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

4 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

You could just bite the bullet and make your battery bank of smart batteries. That'd also reduce the run off by quite a lot so the total capacity wouldn't need to be as high.

With normal large batteries you need an additional battery for every 20 batteries to cover the run off. With smart batteries it's one for every 50. So you don't quite need twice as many batteries.

Biting the bullet requires me opening the power banks, which I work really hard to get hydrogen in for cooling. I'm looking at 50+ cycles easily. I'm not excluding it for the record, just that it is a bullet made out of titanium... . I might be able to alternatively work out a solution with automation, so I'll see how that goes first.

Normal large batteries have a larger run off, that's true. However, they ultimately outbenefit smart batteries in this very particular case just because of that double storage. It means I was able to size down the storage rooms, which need to be insulated (even smart batteries in that quantity generate a lot of heat and will ultimately overheat). In the case where the energy generation comes at absolutely no resource cost (aside the initial set up), normal batteries ultimately excel, opposed to the fuel based generators, which require the efficiency of the smart battery. Of course, it didn't at first past my mind that I ultimately would look into connecting the power supplies of my surface base and my main base.

I will post pictures later on. Your power transformer idea is already something I can incooperate into whatever solution I will ultimately use.

[clickrush]

4 minutes ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

Biting the bullet requires me opening the power banks, which I work really hard to get hydrogen in for cooling. I'm looking at 50+ cycles easily. I'm not excluding it for the record, just that it is a bullet made out of titanium... . I might be able to alternatively work out a solution with automation, so I'll see how that goes first.

Normal large batteries have a larger run off, that's true. However, they ultimately outbenefit smart batteries in this very particular case just because of that double storage. It means I was able to size down the storage rooms, which need to be insulated (even smart batteries in that quantity generate a lot of heat and will ultimately overheat). In the case where the energy generation comes at absolutely no resource cost (aside the initial set up), normal batteries ultimately excel, opposed to the fuel based generators, which require the efficiency of the smart battery. Of course, it didn't at first past my mind that I ultimately would look into connecting the power supplies of my surface base and my main base.

I will post pictures later on. Your power transformer idea is already something I can incooperate into whatever solution I will ultimately use.

Just to be 100% clear that you don't confuse something: When you are saying "normal batteries excel", then you mean in terms of storage/space used right? Because they really are worse in terms of storage/runoff and storage/heat.

Also regarding the automation problem you posted early on it doesn't matter how you divide the same amount of kJ into different amounts of batteries as long as they each store the same amount. For example if normal batteries had an automation signal, then that signal would be identical if you used X of them in comparison to X * 2 smart batteries.

[Saturnus]

19 minutes ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

Biting the bullet requires me opening the power banks, which I work really hard to get hydrogen in for cooling. I'm looking at 50+ cycles easily. I'm not excluding it for the record, just that it is a bullet made out of titanium... . I might be able to alternatively work out a solution with automation, so I'll see how that goes first.

Normal large batteries have a larger run off, that's true. However, they ultimately outbenefit smart batteries in this very particular case just because of that double storage. It means I was able to size down the storage rooms, which need to be insulated (even smart batteries in that quantity generate a lot of heat and will ultimately overheat). In the case where the energy generation comes at absolutely no resource cost (aside the initial set up), normal batteries ultimately excel, opposed to the fuel based generators, which require the efficiency of the smart battery. Of course, it didn't at first past my mind that I ultimately would look into connecting the power supplies of my surface base and my main base.

I will post pictures later on. Your power transformer idea is already something I can incooperate into whatever solution I will ultimately use.

Remember that smart batteries also produce less than half the heat; 0.5dtu vs 1.25dtu; and you got an unlimited supply of refined metal on the surface so material costs are basically zero. Even if you had to brute force refine metals for them smart battery material cost would be the same as it's 200kg refined metal vs 400kg raw metal.

Except for using more space a smart battery bank is superior in every way. At no point could you say that large batteries would be the wiser option unless you are incredibly restricted for space.

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

34 minutes ago, clickrush said:

Just to be 100% clear that you don't confuse something: When you are saying "normal batteries excel", then you mean in terms of storage/space used right? Because they really are worse in terms of storage/runoff and storage/heat.

 

The "normal" battery (so not the tiny one, but the 40kJ battery) outbenefit smart batteries in this very particular case of solar power. So they are worse concerning runoff and heat. So yes, I mean storage/space, and also workload. The additional heat is managable for the record. Since you need to deal with heat anyhow whether you have a smart battery or a normal 40kJ, you need to put something in place to deal with the heat. The solution I put in place was wheezeworts cramped between rows of batteries. I ultimately put too many wheezeworts in there because the batteries sit in -30°C hydrogen, but it works anyhow.

Quote

Also regarding the automation problem you posted early on it doesn't matter how you divide the same amount of kJ into different amounts of batteries as long as they each store the same amount. For example if normal batteries had an automation signal, then that signal would be identical if you used X of them in comparison to X * 2 smart batteries.

 

Ah but what if you only connect the second smart battery to the power circuit only once the first smart battery is full. So your second battery would be disconnected from the power circuit and therefore can't charge until the automation of the first battery, set at 100% to send out an inactive signal which you convert to an active signal with a not gate, to a power shut off.

24 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Remember that smart batteries also produce less than half the heat; 0.5dtu vs 1.25dtu; and you got an unlimited supply of refined metal on the surface so material costs are basically zero. Even if you had to brute force refine metals for them smart battery material cost would be the same as it's 200kg refined metal vs 400kg raw metal.

Except for using more space a smart battery bank is superior in every way. At no point could you say that large batteries would be the wiser option unless you are incredibly restricted for space.

The 40kJ battery produces 25% more heat per stored kJ. Again, I had to deal with the heat anyway else the batteries would overheat, being either a smart battery or a 40kJ battery. The wheezeworts work very well in that regard.

Regarding the refined metal on the surface: Actually I spend it all on conductive heavi watt wires and normal conductive wires. One way or another I was going to be forced to bring metals from deeper the asteroid to the surface anyhow. So there's no time lost there.

Again, I don't necessarily disagree with any of the points you made, but in this very particular case where you require a rather extreme amount of space, which on its turn requires dupe time to properly set up, I'd argue normal 40kJ batteries are better. Let me also tell you that I infact built in the early construction of the power banks first a row of smart batteries. I ended up with a power outage when the bunker doors opened up; I replaced them with the 40kJ battery and that got rid of the power outage. After that I expanded the power banks with the 40kJ battery. Ultimately, that extra capacity, even with all of its disadvantages which I do acknowledge, is better when it comes down to being able to store as much energy as you can. Which is what solar panels come down to: storing as much energy as you can between meteor showers. I think in pretty much any other case smart batteries are the obvious better choice.

[Djoums]

32 minutes ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

Biting the bullet requires me opening the power banks, which I work really hard to get hydrogen in for cooling. I'm looking at 50+ cycles easily. I'm not excluding it for the record, just that it is a bullet made out of titanium... . I might be able to alternatively work out a solution with automation, so I'll see how that goes first.

Accessing close spaces is always annoying but in the end really easy, prepare a liquick lock on one side then break in. Since you're talking about space I assume you already have all the necessary exosuits to deal with that. Idk how many batteries you have, but 50 cycles seem way overboard to me.

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

7 minutes ago, Djoums said:

Accessing close spaces is always annoying but in the end really easy, prepare a liquick lock on one side then break in. Since you're talking about space I assume you already have all the necessary exosuits to deal with that. Idk how many batteries you have, but 50 cycles seem way overboard to me.

Well kind of overboard now that I have the infrastructure in place. Exosuits I always had. It's your dupes traveling that wastes the most time. Currently I have things much more under control with the surface base and tubular connection with the main base.

Still, I think I have the option to solve my issue with automation. That's the least intensive operation, but it has to be excecuted right.

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

I got the crucial part of the automation worked out (not completely, still needs a bit of tampering):

Basic explanation: there are 3 batteries in a row, with only the first one on the left connected to the power grid initially (if there is no meteor shower). Once that battery fills up completely, it will disconnect itself from the grid AND connect the second battery to the grid. Once the second battery is full, it will do the same as with the first battery: disconnect itself and connect the final battery. This way I want to simulate a 40kJ charging plus with 20kJ safety margin built in. That might be over the top, but I don't want to take chances. Als note how I am using memory toggles to hold the signal until a reset signal.

Once the third battery is full, it will send a hold signal to a final power switch, which will supply power to the main base.

There are 2 exceptions:

-Should the final battery drop below 15.000 power, which would equal to the average 40kJ battery dropping to 35.000, the whole bunch will reset and of course cut off power supply to the main base.

-Should a meteor shower come in, the power supply to thev main base will be cut off, will reset the system and will also cut off power to the first battery. I noticed I forgot an additional AND gate for that on the picture, which I already rectified.

One final thing I still need to do, is implementing something to quickly discharge the first 2 batteries once the third battery is connected. I have a couple of ideas iike running a few equatuners, but if somebody else has a better idea, let me know.

[Saturnus]

57 minutes ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

One final thing I still need to do, is implementing something to quickly discharge the first 2 batteries once the third battery is connected. I have a couple of ideas iike running a few equatuners, but if somebody else has a better idea, let me know.

Power your fridges with them. They don't need to be powered but will suck up a ton of power if they are.