Merging packets in pipe

[chemie]

I want to merge two liquid streams (of different temps) so that they perfecting mix to the same outlet temperature.  They each go through a flow valve set to a flow to give my mix ratio.

I tried a bridge with both flows to the inlet, and it works, but only when the outlet pipe is free-flowing.  By this, say 1000g/s is flowing and the pipe has only 1000 g packets (like in the case where it discharges to a liquid vent).

However, when the outlet pipe "backs up" and is filled with 10kg packets with 1000g/s flow, the packets stop merging properly and one stream becomes dominate (although not completely).

Same when I tie the valve outlets directly together without a bridge.  It works until the pipes backs up and then the flow from one valve dominates (instead of 60/40, it is closer to 75/25 ratio).

Obviously, I could have the flow go to a tank and then pump it out, but that uses extra power.

So, can it be done?

 

Example: Two valves tied together

Open flow works (ignore the tank which is the fallback design with pump wasting power)

26C and 12C mix 60/40 to give 17C

But closed pipe flow at something less than 1000g/s stops working, now 21C; I suspect if I "perfectly" matched the water demand, it would work but here I have set one valve to 600g/s and one to 400g/s to get the ratio but knowing that I am using less than 1000g/s.  It would be too hard to match exactly.

Note 2: The reason for this is sieve and one aqau tuner give 26C, second tuner gives 12C (which I used on wheat but it is heating up the ice biome so I want 3C water).  But a third aqua will freeze.  So I need to mix the two to give something just above 14C.  I always try to avoid pumping things multiple times and want to keep things in the pipes whenever possible.

[Kabrute]

From rereading your post it seems like you need a metered thermal baffle re-feed, cut out the second tuner and put a bridge leading back towards the first tuners input with an autovalve(emergency shutoff) on it running to a metered valve before piping back into the tuner.  Bridge into this line between the metered valves out and tuners input with your hot water.   If your getting 26c from this first tuner as is, by backfeeding 150g/s to start with you can lower the temp of the outbound water manually.  It has limits but sounds like what you need.

[chemie]

Just now, Kabrute said:

From rereading your post it seems like you need a metered thermal baffle re-feed, cut out the second tuner and put a bridge leading back towards the first tuners input with an autovalve(emergency shutoff) on it running to a metered valve before piping back into the tuner.  Bridge into this line between the metered valves out and tuners input with your hot water.   If your getting 26c from this first tuner as is, by backfeeding 150g/s to start with you can lower the temp of the outbound water manually.  It has limits but sounds like what you need.

I have tried several back-feed designs and never liked them; too easy to break and get freezing if flow is interrupted on any outlet.  In above, first aqua goes to berries which is variable flow too.

[Kabrute]

I think I can rig something up using a mechanical filter that will do what you want while avoiding the problem your specifying.  I will draw it up when I get back.  Have to run some errands first

[chemie]

2 minutes ago, Kabrute said:

I think I can rig something up using a mechanical filter that will do what you want while avoiding the problem your specifying.  I will draw it up when I get back.  Have to run some errands first

Cool.  TY

[Kabrute]

no floating buffer though, herm

back soon to fix the concept

[chemie]

3 minutes ago, Kabrute said:

no floating buffer though, herm

back soon to fix the concept

This is similar to what I showed above and will not work for the same reason.  The 26C flow will win at the pipe bridge once the downstream pipe backs up.

[Saturnus]

The problem here is you're trying to create a fixed ratio without having a fixed flow. You need to figure out the precise actual flow you need. Then you can mix them with valves.

You mention this in your post but if you combine matching the flow as closely to demand as possible than you can have an overflow buffer leading to somewhere that is temperature agnostic to catch a the overflow.

If your flow is highly varied, this overflow buffer could just be a fairly long pipe leading back to itself just before the overflow buffer.

[Kabrute]

with your valve set to 9kg to start till you dial in your temps

so now if it backs up it bypasses the last tuner all together preventing freeze ups in pipes

[Kabrute]

Needs a second valve between tuner output and the first bridge 

[chemie]

11 hours ago, Saturnus said:

The problem here is you're trying to create a fixed ratio without having a fixed flow. You need to figure out the precise actual flow you need. Then you can mix them with valves.

You mention this in your post but if you combine matching the flow as closely to demand as possible than you can have an overflow buffer leading to somewhere that is temperature agnostic to catch a the overflow.

If your flow is highly varied, this overflow buffer could just be a fairly long pipe leading back to itself just before the overflow buffer.

That is what I was afraid of.  Outlet flow is variable (for example if wheat is stiffed etc).

The good news is that I forgot aqau will only process full 10kg packets when the outlet is backed up.  This means the pump will only run once every 10 seconds along with the aqua so the tank is not a terrible solution.

[Kasuha]

17 hours ago, chemie said:

However, when the outlet pipe "backs up" and is filled with 10kg packets with 1000g/s flow, the packets stop merging properly and one stream becomes dominate (although not completely).

I think I have a solution for you. Under certain conditions, though. First, you need the output quantized. Meaning, the pipe contents is removed by whole packets. You can't do that with a bridge or valve but you can do that with a filter or I believe also with liquid shutoff valve.

Second condition is that you always have to have sufficient supply, i.e. neither hot nor cold inputs ever dry out.

On first input, build a valve. This will allow you to set up the mixing. Draw a pipe from this valve's output, and merge the second input to it via bridge. Then draw this pipe towards the filter/shutoff, and loop it back via bridge under the first valve's output.

When the output is free, the valve will be supplying partial packets and the bridge will top them up to full 10 kg from the second input, then the filter/shutoff will send them out. When the output is blocked, the packet will not enter the filter/shutoff (even if there's just partial packet on its output) and will continue through the pipe back and will block both the valve from first input and bridge from the second input. Eventually the whole loop will fill up with 10 kg packets of properly mixed liquid. If the filter/shutoff draws another packet, it will create an empty packet space which will be filled with appropriate amount from the valve and then topped up through the bridge so it will again be properly mixed.

If you process the result with any single building that processes whole packets, you can use that building instead of the filter or shutoff.

Sorry for lots of words and lack of graphics, I may try to construct it when I get home.

There is even fully mechanical solution for the quantizer. If the total flow is under 5 kg/s, you just interleave the contents of the pipe with packets of another liquid (to prevent flow between packets) and then steal that other liquid away using mechanical filter. To support flows over 5 kg/s, you need to have two such devices and split the flow between them first, then merge it afterwards.

[chemie]

Interesting.  The third aqua should meet your first requirement.  It only processes full 10 kg packets.

[Kasuha]

Okay, so assuming you use Aquatuner to draw the liquid from the input by packets, this should do the trick:

[chemie]

 

On 3/27/2018 at 1:37 PM, Kasuha said:

Okay, so assuming you use Aquatuner to draw the liquid from the input by packets, this should do the trick:

 

Yup.  That worked (once flow backs up).  Thanks No more tank/pump.