Ilmu011 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 To toggle a Signal Switch I have to wait until a duplicant passes by and presses it. Why bother, when I can simply use a clock sensor and immidiately toggle it myself (by just setting the schedule to on whole day or off)? I find myself never using the Signal Switch at all. Either the Signal Switch should toggle instantly without duplicant maintenance as well, or the clock sensor should require it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutureJohny Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Works with any sensor. Since time sensor was a bit finicky until last update, my base is controlled by combination of gas sensors and liquid sensors. Both set to 0 and switched by bellow / above buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 I think you may have misunderstood the function. The signal switch primary purpose is to output a false or true signal that doesn't change unless you send a dupe to change it. In many automation circuits a fixed reference signal is crucial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutureJohny Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 What he meant to say is, by using tme sensor (or any other in fact) and setting them to lower / upper limit values (depends on type used) you get same functionality as signal switch, but with instant response time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Saturnus said: I think you may have misunderstood the function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutureJohny Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Sadly can't watch the video now. What I mean is on this forum previously discussed behavior of gas sensor. If you set it to "bellow 0" it will output 0 even in vacuum. When set to "above 0" it will most of the time output 1 only in vacuum or maybe submerged (can't remember now) but those cases are mostly irelevant in most uses. Liquid sensor should behave analogicaly. Now when time sensor was fixed it can be made even better just by switching it between "full circle" / "empty circle". This allows you to have fast response times on manually controlled machinery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 20 minutes ago, FutureJohny said: What he meant to say is, by using tme sensor (or any other in fact) and setting them to lower / upper limit values (depends on type used) you get same functionality as signal switch, but with instant response time. Again. The signal switch primary function is not to allow direct interaction. Any other sensor in the game lets you do that. The signal switch gives a fixed logic output, either true or false. That is its purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutureJohny Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 I am not sure I get it. It's purpose is to be worse by not allowing interraction, even though you can get fixed output from other sensors like I just described? So I am better of handing TV remote to a friend and then telling him what to do, then switching the channel myself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, FutureJohny said: I am not sure I get it. It's purpose is to be worse by not allowing interraction, even though you can get fixed output from other sensors like I just described? Sensors by nature are environmentally conditioned. That is their very function. If something happens that change the environment they change output. Switches are permanent regardless of the environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilmu011 Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 17 minutes ago, Saturnus said: Again. The signal switch primary function is not to allow direct interaction. Any other sensor in the game lets you do that. The signal switch gives a fixed logic output, either true or false. That is its purpose. Yes, but you can "abuse" the clock sensor to do the same thing. But unlike the signal switch, it toggles instantly, making it a "better Signal Switch". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Ilmu011 said: Yes, but you can "abuse" the clock sensor to do the same thing. But unlike the signal switch, it toggles instantly. The signal switch is a permanent logic output. It is not supposed to be switched at all once you've set the desired logic output. A good example is the brown out sensor. The shut off valve must be unconditionally always on. For that purpose you use a signal switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilmu011 Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 Just now, Saturnus said: I don't see the problem here. The signal switch is a permanent logic output. It is not supposed to be switched at all once you've set the desired logic output. Basically you want to tell me, that something, what is called a "switch" is not supposed to be switched, from which I disagree. I used Signal Switches to turn on pumps and liquid Tepidizers at will. It's way more elegant than cutting off their power supply to make them stop operating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Ilmu011 said: Basically you want to tell me, that something, what is called a "switch" is not supposed to be switched, from which I disagree. It's supposed to be switched in so far as to change the logic state but otherwise no, it's like almost everything else in the game supposed to interact with the player indirectly. It's function is identical to the power switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutureJohny Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, Saturnus said: switch is a permanent I am not sure we are getting anywhere in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Just now, FutureJohny said: I am not sure we are getting anywhere in here. No. I don't think we are if you cannot see the purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroning Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Actually I think all other sensor working not properly. I suppose it must act like liquid valve. If you want to change parameters of sensors, dups must do it, not you instantly. The game is about dups - they build, deliver and change averything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 lol ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilmu011 Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 This. Let's say you want to toggle it. You do it. You have to wait for a duplicant to toggle it. If it was a clock sensor, it would be instant. 0 = off all day 1 = on all day Basically a signal switch. I really don't understand in which point you disagree with me. Yes, sensors can be used in complex logic gates, but can also be used to simply turn buildings on or off. If that is required to be done multiple times, a clock sensor is way more comfortable to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Just now, Kroning said: Actually I think all other sensor working not properly. I suppose it must act like liquid valve. If you want to change parameters of sensors, dups must do it, not you instantly. The game is about dups - they build, deliver and change averything. That would be too harsh as it would mean it's very hard to build functional system if you must maintain a way for dupes to access sensors. Therefore this loophole of direct player interaction with sensors is there in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilmu011 Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, Kroning said: Actually I think all other sensor working not properly. I suppose it must act like liquid valve. If you want to change parameters of sensors, dups must do it, not you instantly. The game is about dups - they build, deliver and change averything. This is exactly my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, Ilmu011 said: I really don't understand in which point you disagree with me. Ok. As said above. The game is supposed to be played without direct interaction of the player on any aspect of the game. However, building stable autonomous systems without adjusting sensors directly would be incredibly hard so therefore this loophole of you being able to directly influence sensors exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilmu011 Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 Just now, Saturnus said: would be incredibly hard I disagree. Requiring a duplicant to set the clock sensor would be pretty fair imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroning Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Saturnus said: Ok. As said above. The game is supposed to be played without direct interaction of the player on any aspect of the game. However, building stable autonomous without adjust sensors directly would be incredibly hard so therefore this loophole of you being able to directly influence sensors exists. Totally agree. The only way is "hard mode" for experts who seek for challenges. Maybe with other interesting things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Just now, Ilmu011 said: I disagree. Requiring a duplicant to set the clock sensor would be pretty fair imo. How about having to adjust a sensor in your magma crude oil boiler from 580C to 620C? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilmu011 Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Saturnus said: How about having to adjust a sensor in your magma crude oil boiler from 580C to 620C? It has to get there somehow though. Also I am pretty unhappy with how the sensors work right now. I wish such a sensor would contain 2 things: A probe, which is placed in the area to be monitored and a switch, where you can adjust the signal output. In real life, you wouldn't crawl down a nuclear reactor to adjust some sensors, you'd do it from the control panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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