Power needs to be reworked

[Angelmarauder]

As an IEEE electrical engineer, I find that the power just doesn't work satisfactorily.

My main gripe is with the wattage limit per circuit as opposed to a current limit. 
In reality (in practice),
Watts are only practically determined by the loads and not by the lines. 
If you run two parallel lines it would halve the amount of current on the line.
You can run unlimited generators on a line as long as the loads are pulling less current than the lines can handle.

By applying generator wattage limit to a line you are effectively saying that there is a limit to generation as opposed to loads.

That ruffles my feathers exceedingly.

Current draw (replacing this applied wattage mechanic) should work like the air density mechanics that are used for the gases except one dimensionally along the lines.

-Angelmarauder
NO SIGNATURE YET O_O

[GuyPerfect]

I may have an incorrect understanding of how power works in the game, but have an image in my head of what it looks like based on observations.

I'm fairly certain the following is true:

• Generators produce some power
• Batteries can store some power
• If the loads exceed the wattage of the generators, additional power is taken from the batteries
• If the load consumption exceeds the power available from generators and batteries, everything dies

What I am not certain of pertains to Power Transformers. They're described as being limited to 1 kW on the small side, but I haven't seen that to be true. Using the standard Wire, which itself has a 1 kW capacity, I've been able to run more than 1 kW of machines on a single Power Transformer. The only caveat was that chunks of Wire would begin to take overload damage. I have not yet experimented with using higher-wattage wires hooked up to the small end of a Power Transformer.

30 minutes ago, Angelmarauder said:

If you run two parallel lines it would halve the amount of current on the line.
You can run unlimited generators on a line as long as the loads are pulling less current than the lines can handle.

I have experimented with a high-wattage production line made from Heavi-Watt Wire and branching off of that with standard Wire. I figure, as long as the standard Wire doesn't draw more than 1 kW, it should be fine, right? Well, no, that's not right. Everything connected to my backbone trunk was considered to be on the same circuit, and any time total consumption exceeded 1 kW, random chunks of Wire not separated by a Power Transformer would take overload damage, even if they weren't providing power to anything.

So just based on the problems I've had to work around, my mental image currently looks like this:

• All wires connected to each other constitute a single circuit
• Load applies to the entire circuit regardless of which wires are delivering power
• A Power Transformer connects two circuits in a one-way manner (like a diode) and does not limit current in any way

On the other hand, based on the descriptions and apparent intent of Power Transformers, it sounds like it ought to work like this (but, just for clarity, it does not work this way):

• Power Transformers connect a 1 kW circuit to a higher-current circuit
• Total consumption on the smaller circuit cannot exceed 1 kW or else everything connected to it will die
• A 2 kW circuit can be formed by connecting Conductive Wire to two Power Transformers
• A wire can only take overload damage if its downstream consumers are exceeding its maximum current

To reiterate, that last bulleted list is NOT how the game works as of this post.

That being said, if wires can only overload in response to downstream consumers, then branching off of higher-wattage wire with lower-wattage wire... kinda side-steps the need for Power Transformers.

I'm no electrical engineer, so I could be getting some of the logic wrong. I welcome your perspective on these points, as they've been annoying me as well.

[donutman07]

3 minutes ago, GuyPerfect said:

What I am not certain of pertains to Power Transformers. They're described as being limited to 1 kW on the small side, but I haven't seen that to be true. Using the standard Wire, which itself has a 1 kW capacity, I've been able to run more than 1 kW of machines on a single Power Transformer. The only caveat was that chunks of Wire would begin to take overload damage. I have not yet experimented with using higher-wattage wires hooked up to the small end of a Power Transformer.

In game the transformer works by moving 1kJ from one side to the other every tick (4 times a second).  So a transformer can handle 4kW actually.  However, without a battery, a transformer cannot power anything which draws more than 1kW (aquatuner).

 

I agree the in game system is not like real life.  Though I'm not sure it matters too much.  I felt the power system is one of the better balanced things in the game (assuming you don't super heat crude into natural gas for infinite energy).

44 minutes ago, Angelmarauder said:

By applying generator wattage limit to a line you are effectively saying that there is a limit to generation as opposed to loads.

In game this is not actually the case.  You can have as many generators as you'd like, until somebody actually draws enough to go over the limit it does not matter.  It mimics current draw in that sense, but not in the 'how much current is going through this fork of the circuit' aspect.  All connected parts of the circuit have the same load in game, which is a simplification.  I am okay with it, but would also be okay if they made it more realistic.  Both methods involve planning, transformers and multinetworks to split up loads, or placing down different gauge wires to handle loads as you fork off.

 

Also an EE if that matters for some reason.

[GuyPerfect]

Do batteries account for the current capacity of the wire they're connected to? I get the feeling that runoff power is just magically transported to batteries, but I haven't tried, for instance, hooking up two Coal Generators to a battery using regular Wire.

[donutman07]

8 minutes ago, GuyPerfect said:

Do batteries account for the current capacity of the wire they're connected to? I get the feeling that runoff power is just magically transported to batteries, but I haven't tried, for instance, hooking up two Coal Generators to a battery using regular Wire.

It does seem excess power on a circuit is just magically transferred to a battery.  It does not count as a load or a producer

[UristMcKerman]

As I understand, all machinery in the game is connected sequentually (or whatever it is called). Yes, amperage would not be much of a problem, but then at some point voltage would become so high that those barely insulated wires would short-circuit which is simulated with overloads. So the only problem is that overload ingame is not an IRL overload but an IRL short-circuit, but then it is simulated improperly for that matter (not !!fun!! enough).

Tl;Dr: My opinion that for a game power mechanics are fine, but when something gets wrong, it gets wrong in a boring way.

[eggsvbacon]

3 hours ago, UristMcKerman said:

Tl;Dr: My opinion that for a game power mechanics are fine, but when something gets wrong, it gets wrong in a boring way.

I get tired of lines breaking, how about some fires? I want to see some stuff catch on fire from poor electrical planning, put that in some hard mode thing, punish me for my ignorance in wiring and plumbing with disastrous outcomes that make you wish you got on that home owners/flood insurance, PUNISH ME, punish me~!!!!

Call the mode "Real Life Consequences" (seems like a mod someone might make later when modding is a fleshed out thing.

Too weird?

[TheScaryOne]

Overload in Oxygen up to 2000g? Nothing. Overload in high pressure oxygen? Fire. Overload in Hydrogen or Natural Gas? Explosion. Overload under water/polluted water? Electrify the water so you have to drain for repairs. Overload in metal tiles have them become electrified.