Fully automatic power production control

[Parusoid]

@Neotix But this will only keep generators disabled until buffer battery is empty. Generators should start only when the array batteries are empty 

[Neotix]

Not in my case. I don't build big battery storage to keep power. I build spread array. Each circuit have 1-2 batteries (sometimes more if there is constant 2kW consumption). So I want that array always full. Generators start when array start discharging, that is why I have buffer batteries to not waste even one 1J of energy.

[Parusoid]

@Neotix Then I don't really understand the purpose of this set up. I thought it is made so you don't overproduce energy, meaning: generators charge up the batteries until they are full >generator stops once batteries are full>system runs on batteries until they are empty>generators start the moment batteries are empty>repeat. If your setup is not for preventing energy overproduction then what is it for? 

[Neotix]

It's work exactly like that. But you want charge and discharge battery array but I want to charge and discharge buffer batteries and keep array always full.

I'm using this that way because between empty batteries and starting generators is few seconds delay and I want continuous power distribution.

[Parusoid]

42 minutes ago, Neotix said:

I want to charge and discharge buffer batteries and keep array always full.

If you want array always full then just hook it up to generators without set ups like that. 

I tested it some time ago and it didn't work like I described before, hence I'm having troubles with understanding the purpose od it still. 

[Kiako]

@Neotix I understand now why we have different way to solve this. I uses Generator - power detector - transformer - huge set of battery with power detector - ( multiple transformer-battery). I can allow a feww second loss of power in the main set to the cost of adding more battery, both in the main set and in each circuit.

 

[Neotix]

56 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

If you want array always full then just hook it up to generators without set ups like that. 

That way I will lose energy because generators will work all the time. I needed sensor that detect when batteries in array start discharging to resupply them.

[Parusoid]

1 hour ago, Neotix said:

That way I will lose energy because generators will work all the time. I needed sensor that detect when batteries in array start discharging to resupply them.

But in this setup your 'main'  batteries are resupplied when they drop from 100%, so when they are let's say 99% the generator turns on after being off for like what, few second? It does not make sense. It would if generator would turn on when the array is 0% automatically. That few seconds does not save a meaningful amount of energy. 

[Neotix]

I'm power grid designer IRL and for me stored energy is wasted energy. So I don't have big battery storage and I build 1-2 battery per circuit (sometimes little ones) only to keep it powered all the time (backup). This sensor is not designed to power batteries but to avoid overproduce power by generators.

[Parusoid]

42 minutes ago, Neotix said:

I'm power grid designer IRL and for me stored energy is wasted energy. So I don't have big battery storage and I build 1-2 battery per circuit (sometimes little ones) only to keep it powered all the time (backup). This sensor is not designed to power batteries but to avoid overproduce power by generators.

It doesn't seem to avoid overproduction since generators are running constantly except for few seconds during the water pump period. And those few seconds can't possibly be meaningful. And how battery is wasted energy? It's energy that has not been used, and will be if you turn off generator. This is avoiding overproduction: Using the run off energy 

[Saturnus]

1 minute ago, Neotix said:

I'm power grid designer IRL and for me stored energy is wasted energy. So I don't have big battery storage and I build 1-2 battery per circuit (sometimes little ones) only to keep it powered all the time (backup). This sensor is not designed to power batteries but to avoid overproduce power by generators.

The problem with that is that you look at it from a high voltage perspective. You have to look at it from a low voltage perspective.

Stored energy is not wasted by any means. You should store as much as you need to maintain the power supply stable with no brown outs at any point. Energy storage allows you to have higher temporary energy consumption than the power you can produce. 

[Neotix]

46 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

It doesn't seem to avoid overproduction since generators are running constantly except for few seconds during the water pump period. And those few seconds can't possibly be meaningful. And how battery is wasted energy? It's energy that has not been used, and will be if you turn off generator. This is avoiding overproduction: Using the run off energy 

And that few second period is exactly the time when power would be overproduced.

45 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

You should store as much as you need to maintain the power supply stable with no brown outs at any point.

Buy I have stable power supply. I don't make entire network as a whole, I separate it and calculate needed power backup for every circuit (like on image above). For circuit when I have low power consumption with occasional spikes and that circuit is not essential, I build sometimes only one small battery. For circuits with higher priority and higher demand, I build more big batteries.

One central power storage have that problem, that when generators are not working, high consumers will drain power really fast and more essential machines will stop working. I divide it and when I don't have energy, not essential consumers like refineries and plastic presses stops almost immediately because they have only one little battery. But pump that supply water, entire oxygen production etc. have 2-3 big batteries each and will run few cycles until I solve problem with power.

[Parusoid]

 

@Neotix Anyway I think the title of  this topic is very vague if not misleading.

In your first post there are schematics and how it works but you should also add what does your set up do exactly (does it use stored energy, does it use generators only, is it supposed to provide constant power or power that is oscillating...) what can it be used for. Provide some calculations that can support your claims, tell us how much resources did you save on this  'avoided overproduction'. 

Writing 'one sensor, no dupes' doesn't say much. 

It misled me or I'm just disappointed it's not the system I was looking for 

[Parusoid]

On 5.12.2017 at 12:42 AM, Kiako said:

If I may, you should use a D-latch and two of your power detector, one between transformer, one at the end.

You would no longer need a timer : no power at the end would mean starting the generator and power between the transformer shutting it down.

For more on building  latches in ONI, some useful links : several building including latches  & T latches

 

No more power start the gen then power between the transf stop it

Should both hydro sensor be set to above 0?

[Kiako]

It really depends on how many water you put in, you have to test this. There is a "running pressure" and a "non-running pressure" and both are quite precise.

Btw, you should have a look again at the sensor in the first post ( use of air tile and automatic loop to save power and for something even more precise ).

[Parusoid]

4 minutes ago, Kiako said:

It really depends on how many water you put in, you have to test this. There is a "running pressure" and a "non-running pressure" and both are quite precise.

Btw, you should have a look again at the sensor in the first post ( use of air tile and automatic loop to save power and for something even more precise ).

Something weird is going on here

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AunP5uMVljGYsxQZjt2ePjXEGgxr

[Kiako]

With this kind of power sensor, the pipe must be full. When they become empty, the pressure change as lot of water isn't in the pipe anymore.

You don't have enough water so the pressure change even if the pump is running.

 

edit

To be more precise, your pipe should look like this. On the left, not running = more water around hydro sensor. On the right, running = less water around hydro sensor and constant pressure.

[NekTahiti]

I have been playing around with latches to control my power production and am running into a weird issue. Sometimes when I build it the first transformer is powered up right away and that triggers the reset and stops the power/charging of the batts. And sometimes it works as intended, the first transformer is not getting any power until all batteries are charged. Any ideas why?

I posted a picture of a test setup, don't mind the lower part. On the top left you can see the first transformer getting power while my battery that is used as the storage one is not getting any. This exact same setup used to work before a game reload.

Thanks for any help

[Neotix]

It's a bug and I think that it's related with building order.

I posted it in Bug Tracker 

 

[NekTahiti]

Thanks for the heads up, I'll try to reproduce as well and post some feedback

[Nativel]

On 04.12.2017 at 10:09 PM, Neotix said:

Buffer gate will keep generator running some time to charge buffer battery and then generation will stop.

If you play normal game not painter one, your base will consume different kind of power every day, with is mean you have to guess how many will be today, wich is the same as regular gas valve flow control but w/o creating this "perpetual motion" trick.

Короче это все шляпа, проще поставить газовый вентель и не размножать мозги кучей ненужной шелухи с тем же таймером по времени, это реально так и есть. На один кВатт потребления надо 75 грамм в секунду потребления природного газа, дальше сам считай, если что ставь с небольшим запасом. 

On 10.12.2017 at 11:52 PM, Kiako said:

[ Buffer battery (40kJ) + Tranformer (1kJ) + Sensor Battery (10kJ) ] / ((Sum of Generators power- Sum of used power) / 1000) = Require time - few sec

IT's all good if you have to power up only your battary, no power consumption plus your power consumption could and will changes from time to time, so all of those formulas useless.

Эти парни реально ничего не смыслят в игре, они играют там в режиме рисования где у них, одна батарея и больше нет ни...я. Подсчитал он сколько ему секунд надо на то чтобы зарядить батарею, без нагрузки, это как посчитать за сколько ты нальешь пятилитровое ведро с дырой вместо дна, дол...бы.

[Neotix]

@Nativel there is no problem. The worse scenario is when power consumption is zero. This mean that entire generator production have to be stored in batteries. Sometimes base have constant power consumption (for example oxygen generation) that can be considered in calculations.