Water cooling by dripping - bug/feature removed?

[habuky]

Am I just to stupid to build such a system or has the the bug (respective the "feature")  been removed, that water cools down just because it's dripping down a few steps?

I did not find anything in the description of the recent update...

Or should you just not enclose such a water dripping stair with Abyssalite tiles?

 

[habuky]

Maybe I did not hear the bell or didn't try this feature early enough, but I guess it's gone.

I just made a quick simulation: both setups werde build  using the debug mode in the 1 cycle via copy'n'paste and primed with 40°C hot water. 

 

In cycle 2 both basins at the bottom reached 24°C (I guess through environment temperature)

In cycle 16 they were still at 24°C, when I stopped the simulation

hrmmmpf.sav

[GreatGameDota]

41 minutes ago, habuky said:

In cycle 16 they were still at 24°C, when I stopped the simulation

You forgot weezeworts.

[Saturnus]

5 minutes ago, GreatGameDota said:

You forgot weezeworts.

Then it wouldn't be drip cooling, just weezewort cooling by massively increasing water surface area.

[Le0n1des]

The thing with drip cooling is that the whole reservoir magically gets the same temperature as the waterfall tiles. When using wheezeworts and gas permeable tiles - the tiles tend to be really cold

[AnonymousRetard]

The bug is still there. But yeah you need to cool the dripping water. You need to create a tile of water that's colder than the ones below it.

I drew on your picture a bit to illustrate. The parts I marked with X's are completely useless and serve no purpose right now. The circles are where you need to place cool water. The arrows point at what will be cooled. If you just place cool water on the circled tiles it will cool the entire water basins. They will get the same temperature as the cooled water on top almost for free. The temperature is not going to "equalize" as it normally would.

You can cool with for example wheezeworths. But an aquatuner can also be extremely effective. If you place one where the arrows point, below the water in the middle of the basin, the bug will cool them as well pretty much for free, and you can create a closed loop where they drop the colder water back on top again.

This closed loop can be extended through the hot parts of your base if you want so that you can cool your entire base.

Here's a picture of my setup. It's piped through the hottest parts of my base, cooling them as well. But I drew a red line showing how the water, or in my case, crude oil (which can get much colder without freezing) flows.

Here's a more zoomed out picture of my temperature overlay showing how that setup, with a single aquatuner and not a single wheezeworth, is cooling all my oxygen supply and all my generators.

Natural gas generators produce carbon dioxide and polluted water at the same temperature as themselves, regardless of the input temperature. By feeding them hot input gas from insulated pipes and cooling them down (with non-insulated pipes) a lot I can use their outputs to further cool everything. My duplicants living area is actually getting a bit too cold right now.

[manu_x32]

I also noticed that the exploit seems fixed.  I'll do more in depth tests later...

[AnonymousRetard]

9 minutes ago, manu_x32 said:

I also noticed that the exploit seems fixed.  I'll do more in depth tests later...

It's not fixed, you must be doing it incorrectly. I just unpaused my simulation after taking those screenshots and noticed the temperature of a 800kg tile of oil in the bottom of my basin fall from -3.3° C to -8C° because a tile above it of only 7kg of oil was cooled down to -8C°. As long as a cool tile of liquid is connected to a warm tile of liquid, with the cool tile from above, it will cool everything below down instantly. It doesn't work if it's dripping directly from a vent.

[Saturnus]

9 minutes ago, AnonymousRetard said:

It's not fixed, you must be doing it incorrectly.

He's talking about the heat deletion bug. It's something else entirely.

Liquids used to drop a tiny amount of heat loss when it experienced a number of one-step drops. Without any under external influences. These tiny amounts of heat loss would accumulate over time. And people would refer it to by different names but drip bug and heat deletion bug being the most common.

Note this is completely unrelated to and completely different than surface liquid heat equalization bug you're referring to.

See this thread for references
 

 

[manu_x32]

8 minutes ago, AnonymousRetard said:

It's not fixed, you must be doing it incorrectly. I just unpaused my simulation after taking those screenshots and noticed the temperature of a 800kg tile of oil in the bottom of my basin fall from -3.3° C to -8C° because a tile above it of only 7kg of oil was cooled down to -8C°. As long as a cool tile of liquid is connected to a warm tile of liquid, with the cool tile from above, it will cool everything below down instantly. It doesn't work if it's dripping directly from a vent.

@Saturnus explained it way better that I would have.  But yeah I was referring to little drips falling directly in a large pool of water. This one really seems fixed.

[AnonymousRetard]

1 minute ago, Saturnus said:

He's talking about the heat deletion bug. It's something else entirely.

Liquids used to drop a tiny amount of heat loss when it experienced a number of one-step drops. Without any under external influences. These tiny amounts of heat loss would accumulate over time. And people would refer it to by different names but drip bug and heat deletion bug being the most common.

Note this is completely unrelated to and completely different than surface liquid heat equalization bug you're referring to.

Ok you might be correct. I just got back to the game after a break and recently built my setup I posted about from hints I gathered from a couple of other posts. Currently at least it seems like you need to have some sort of external cooling that you can then amplify quite a lot depending on how big your liquid basin is.

[manu_x32]

It seems like oil dripping from slicksters is still kind of doing it though.  I think they output oil at 30C, but it seems to cool the underneath large pool of oil very quickly like the old dripping exploit.  Or maybe there's another explanation for that one 

 

[Saturnus]

I might have exaggerated when when I wrote they're completely unrelated but they really are quite different in behaviour. And one effect is often confused with the other. But yes, it does appear like the heat deletion bug is removed. Huzzah!

[AnonymousRetard]

Just now, manu_x32 said:

It seems like oil dripping from slicksters is still kind of doing it though.  I think they output oil at 30C, but it seems to cool the underneath large pool of oil very quickly like the old dripping exploit.  Or maybe there's another explanation for that one 

 

Oh, I haven't been looking at the temperatures of the oil when I've seen them create it but I've frequently seen them create a tile of oil above the "sea level" of the oil pool, which then takes a couple of frames before it's weight drops to 0 and gets distributed in the oil pool below. I don't know why it happens but it might explain why it causes the bug as well. Liquids dropping directly from vents usually never create a tile above the pool they're dripping into.

[manu_x32]

8 hours ago, AnonymousRetard said:

Oh, I haven't been looking at the temperatures of the oil when I've seen them create it but I've frequently seen them create a tile of oil above the "sea level" of the oil pool, which then takes a couple of frames before it's weight drops to 0 and gets distributed in the oil pool below. I don't know why it happens but it might explain why it causes the bug as well. Liquids dropping directly from vents usually never create a tile above the pool they're dripping into.

Actually when I loaded my scene tonight, it seems like the slickster oil also doesn't cool the oil below anymore.

Was around 25C yesterday.

 

But thanks for your trick, I was looking for a way to cool the oil beside the tepidizer for a 1:1 petroleum maker, and dripping was not working. And very economic, aqua tuner starts rarely.

 

 

[AnonymousRetard]

Cool setup! No problem. I optimized my cooling setup a bit, I increased the size of the oil basin and reduced the water heat glitching area to the bare minimum. As you can see there's now a low weight -21C tile of oil on top of the much cooler -25C oil in the basin. The glitch doesn't heat all the water below, it only cools it. Therefore the pump is bypassing the aquatuner pretty much all of the time until all of the oil reaches a safe temperature for the aquatuner to start again. Then as soon as the cooled oil has passed one loop the whole basin cools down again and the aquatuner turns off again thanks to the thermo switch.

[manu_x32]

14 minutes ago, AnonymousRetard said:

Cool setup! No problem. I optimized my cooling setup a bit, I increased the size of the oil basin and reduced the water heat glitching area to the bare minimum. As you can see there's now a low weight -21C tile of oil on top of the much cooler -25C oil in the basin. The glitch doesn't heat all the water below, it only cools it. Therefore the pump is bypassing the aquatuner pretty much all of the time until all of the oil reaches a safe temperature for the aquatuner to start again. Then as soon as the cooled oil has passed one loop the whole basin cools down again and the aquatuner turns off again thanks to the thermo switch.

Thanks, all merit for the idea goes to NaNoD from the thread below.  I guess using tepidizer this way is also an exploit, they might fix it too, but I love the setup so much.

 

With your original staircase design I don't seem to need an aqua tuner bypass, just stopping the aqua tuner seems to do the job.  Saves a bit of power on the pump. What's the advantage of a continuous flow, more uniform temp everywhere?

[manu_x32]

It's weird, it seems like slicksters started to cool oil again. I added an aqua tuner setup there too but doesn't seem needed anymore.  And you were right @AnonymousRetard about the above sea level colder tile when they spit out.

 

[AnonymousRetard]

6 hours ago, manu_x32 said:

With your original staircase design I don't seem to need an aqua tuner bypass, just stopping the aqua tuner seems to do the job.  Saves a bit of power on the pump. What's the advantage of a continuous flow, more uniform temp everywhere?

I'm actually not sure I need a continuous flow. I was thinking that some kind of on-off cycle timer on the both the aquatuner and pump migth be enough but I'm not entirely sure how to set that up with automation. The clock thing doesn't seem to do exactly what I want, I want more of an on-off duty cycle. It would have to be combined with a temperature switch as well so it never turns on if the oil is too cold so that it doesn't freeze.

To clarify my original staircase design had continious flow as well, it just wasn't visible in the screenshot because the bypass pipe was inside the tiles. In that design when the tuner was on, 50% of the water would still bypass it and when it was off all the liquid would flow through the bypass pipe. It actually worked pretty well but it just felt ugly to me that when I was actively cooling I was only actively cooling 50% of the liquid. The new system also has continiouus flow but when the tuner is active it now cools 100% of the liquid instead of just 50%, thanks to the automation liquid shutoffs.

If I just measure the temperature in the oil basin and stop the entire system based on that, stopping the continuous flow, I'm afraid it will create hot spots in the loop where I'm trying to cool the base. So yes I think it helps with a more uniform temp everywhere but I should do some more testing on that.

Oh and yes that screenshot with the slickster show's exactly the phenomenon I had noticed as well. I'm pretty sure that would cause this cooling bug. I think it might be because they suddenly create way more oil instantly in 1 frame than what vents can do, so liquid dripping from vents never becomes a solid tile before it hits the rest of the liquid level while oil from slicksters seem to form a tile that falls down.

[manu_x32]

14 hours ago, AnonymousRetard said:

I'm actually not sure I need a continuous flow. I was thinking that some kind of on-off cycle timer on the both the aquatuner and pump migth be enough but I'm not entirely sure how to set that up with automation. The clock thing doesn't seem to do exactly what I want, I want more of an on-off duty cycle. It would have to be combined with a temperature switch as well so it never turns on if the oil is too cold so that it doesn't freeze.
 

If what you are looking for is an oscillator that will  be on for a specific duration, then off for a specific duration, than on again, and so on..., it's pretty easy to do, I use it for my tepidizer. But my aquatuner just turns on when temp is too hot.  

The below threads talk about oscillators and other automation gadgets. If you want to combine that with a temp sensor, it's also easy, just plug the output of the oscillator in one entry of a AND box, and the output of the temp sensor in the other entry. Then the output of the AND box to your aqua tuner.  The oscillator won't make the aqua tuner run unless the temp is safe... the AND box acts as a condition gate.

 

[Kabrute]

Your talking Set Reset circuit, two xor gates cross connected with nots and buffers/filters will created a timed on off sequence. you need 1 on input on one xor, then connect the output to the other xor via a not gate.  Feed xor2's output to a not gate, then filter gate, buffer gate, xor1 B input.  Set the time via filter and buffer

xor1 will always be opposite xor2 and will drive each other on and off as long as inputA is on