How to avoid Naphta when using polymer press

[Mjello]

My plastic press was making naphta and not plastic... No wonder it took so long to make plastic.

The reason seems to be when it is doused in water... Correction... It just melts at 76 degrees

Anyways building them in hydrogen and allowing the water to drain away. No more naphta just plastic

[Guest]

Would a radiator using oil as liquid also work for cooling? I am using all of my hydrogen already on various cooling. Since the oil will be consumed anyway, it might be an option.. If nobody else tried this already, I'll give it a shot myself tomorrow.

Does anybody know btw if the heat output by the press is a bug or intended?

[Risu]

10 minutes ago, turbonl64 said:

Would a radiator using oil as liquid also work for cooling? I am using all of my hydrogen already on various cooling. Since the oil will be consumed anyway, it might be an option.. If nobody else tried this already, I'll give it a shot myself tomorrow.

Does anybody know btw if the heat output by the press is a bug or intended?

It appears to be floodable so oil is not an option.
It has 32 operating kilowatts, so not a bug, just poor judgment.
 

[trukogre]

13 minutes ago, Risu said:

It appears to be floodable so oil is not an option.
It has 32 operating kilowatts, so not a bug, just poor judgment.
 

Oil is indeed an option, despite the floodability, it just adds another boundary condition to your system. I use water to cool my press, with a pump attached to a hydrosensor to keep the press from flooding.  Another option would be to cool with a liquid by dripping onto the press, relying on an appropriate patchwork of mesh and normal tiles below your presses to keep them cool but not flooded.

[Gravityx]

There are a few options: Drip liquid oxygen, cool the area with gas via regulators, and/or wheezeworts

Personally I use all 3 and it works well to allow plastic to be made full time. Even with only some cooling, its still possible to make a lot of plastic by manually turning on & off multiple presses in a row. Plastic is meant to be a late game option. You arent meant to just plop them down anywhere. Cooling is a great mechanic of this game, and should be necessary imo.

[Mjello]

With a heat conductivity of 913 W .. As compared to Wolframites 15. Maybe plastic tiles could be used to transfer the heat away.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Gravityx said:

There are a few options: Drip liquid oxygen, cool the area with gas via regulators, and/or wheezeworts

Personally I use all 3 and it works well to allow plastic to be made full time. Even with only some cooling, its still possible to make a lot of plastic by manually turning on & off multiple presses in a row. Plastic is meant to be a late game option. You arent meant to just plop them down anywhere. Cooling is a great mechanic of this game, and should be necessary imo.

I agree up to a point, but having to drop for instance liquid oxygen is more of a very advanced technique which I think overshoots the point here.

I was thinking of a radiator using sandstone liquid pipes filled with crude oil (which actually has a good thermal conductivity)., and in a room filled with hydrogen and wheezeworts. The point would be not to replenish the hydrogen, but to keep it cooled.

[Gravityx]

Just now, turbonl64 said:

I agree up to a point, but having to drop for instance liquid oxygen is more of a very advanced technique which I think overshoots the point here.

I was thinking of a radiator using sandstone liquid pipes filled with crude oil (which actually has a high thermal conductivity)., and in a room filled with hydrogen and wheezeworts

Even when I have no liquid o2, the regulator cooling seems to do fine. Your idea might work fine as well. I'm sure there are a ton of cool options with the introduction of oil. All I was saying is that OP just ploped them down with no cooling at all, not even a wheeze. They aren't meant for that. You at least need some cooling setup.

[Risu]

19 minutes ago, Mjello said:

With a heat conductivity of 913 W .. As compared to Wolframites 15. Maybe plastic tiles could be used to transfer the heat away.

Plastic tiles have a heat capacity of 192 kJ/K. Granite non-insulated tiles have 316 kJ/K.
As plastic has a higher thermal conductivity than every other element, it will never be the lower value in heat transfer.
 

[Guest]

Just now, Gravityx said:

Even when I have no liquid o2, the regulator cooling seems to do fine. Your idea might work fine as well. I'm sure there are a ton of cool options with the introduction of oil. All I was saying is that OP just ploped them down with no cooling at all, not even a wheeze. They aren't meant for that. You at least need some cooling setup.

Yep, they do heat up very fast. I still suspect the heat output it is now is a just a value to test things out and I think it will go down when the oil upgrade goes fully live. Still, even if reduced considerably, you'll still need cooling as it looks like they are intended to eventually overheat if not taken care off.

[Mjello]

 

2 minutes ago, Risu said:

Plastic tiles have a heat capacity of 192 kJ/K. Granite non-insulated tiles have 316 kJ/K.
 

Where do you get that?

Plastic thermal conductivity 913

Granite thermal conductivity 3.39

[Guest]

Just now, Mjello said:

 

Where do you get that?

Plastic thermal conductivity 913

Granite thermal conductivity 3.39

You guys are confusing conductivity for capacity.

[Risu]

6 minutes ago, Mjello said:

Where do you get that?

Plastic thermal conductivity 913

Granite thermal conductivity 3.39

Heat capacity is specific heat capacity multiplied by mass.
Plastic tiles are 100 kg.
Normal tiles are 400 kg.

Edit: Oh wait, forgot about the hidden mass reduction for heat transfer.
Plastic tile would be 38.4 kJ/K and Granite non-insulated tile would be 63.2 kJ/K.

4 minutes ago, turbonl64 said:

You guys are confusing conductivity for capacity.

I'm not confusing it, it's just that conductivity plays no role here.
 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Risu said:

Heat capacity is specific heat capacity multiplied by mass.
Plastic tiles are 100 kg.
Normal tiles are 400 kg.

I'm not confusing it, it's just that conductivity plays no role here.
 

Depends on the set up, but you need both for heat exchange. Preferable, the material (being either solid, liquid or gas) you want to remove heat from has a high conductivity and the material you want to absorb the heat from needs a low heat capacity.

 

Atleast that's how I think it works

[Mjello]

5 minutes ago, Risu said:

Heat capacity is specific heat capacity multiplied by mass.
Plastic tiles are 100 kg.
Normal tiles are 400 kg.

I'm not confusing it, it's just that conductivity plays no role here.
 

I have to disagre with you. When using wolframite in pipes the difference in temperature is enormous.

Compared to using sandstone or granite.

The temperature difference needed to transfer a given amount of heat in W is much lower when using wolframite.

[Risu]

18 minutes ago, turbonl64 said:

Depends on the set up, but you need both for heat exchange. Preferable, the material (being either solid, liquid or gas) you want to remove heat from has a high conductivity and the material you want to absorb the heat from needs a low heat capacity.

 

Atleast that's how I think it works

 

15 minutes ago, Mjello said:

I have to disagre with you. When using wolframite in pipes the difference in temperature is enormous.

Compared to using sandstone or granite.

The temperature difference needed to transfer a given amount of heat in W is much lower when using wolframite.

Wolframite also has the lowest specific heat capacity of all plumbable materials meaning it takes less effort to change it's temperature. Because its thermal conductivity is higher than every liquid but molten steel, the thermal conductivity of the liquid will always be used instead of the pipe.

In fact, the only plumbable material whose conductivity is lower than the two water elements is abyssallite.
The only liquids whose thermal conductivity is high enough for the standard pipes to take over are the molten metals and mercury.

 

[Mjello]

17 minutes ago, Risu said:

 

Wolframite also has the lowest specific heat capacity of all plumbable materials meaning it takes less effort to change it's temperature.
 

As I understand it. For the first time we would actually be able to combine wolframite with plastic to get a heat transfer value of 15.

It would not change the liquid to pipe transfer value. It would still be the liquids transfer value that counts.

And plastic with plastic would get the full 913.

[Risu]

14 minutes ago, Mjello said:

And plastic with plastic would get the full 913.

Hmm. That's true. Looks useful.

Shame it's useless for moving heat since it melts at 76.85C
Also worse than sandstone at holding water. The tile having 1/4 the mass isn't helping that fact either.
 

[Coolthulhu]

14 minutes ago, Risu said:

Shame it's useless for moving heat since it melts at 76.85C

But it could be useful at moving cold. Pity ladders don't transfer heat to each other or a grid of plastic ladders would be the ultimate equalizer for heat (I guess you could call it "heat death").

[Risu]

Correction. Normal tiles are 200 kg. Apparently they are now using the construction mass instead of the hard coded mass.

Anyways, plastic tiles do have a higher heat capacity than normal granite tiles then.
Even though the mass is half, its specific heat capacity brings it higher.
 

[Reaniel]

8 minutes ago, Risu said:

Correction. Normal tiles are 200 kg. Apparently they are now using the construction mass instead of the hard coded mass.

Anyways, plastic tiles do have a higher heat capacity than normal granite tiles then.
Even though the mass is half, its specific heat capacity brings it higher.
 

But the machines are still 1/5 though, right?

What about the pipes and bridges?  

[Risu]

2 minutes ago, Reaniel said:

But the machines are still 1/5 though, right?

What about the pipes and bridges? 

The mass you see in game is what you get. It's just a bit confusing in the code now.

The mass used for temperature exchange is still 20% of the building mass.
 

[Reaniel]

Just now, Risu said:

The mass you see in game is what you get. It's just a bit confusing in the code now.

The mass used for temperature exchange is still 20% of the building mass.
 

Ah, ok...  I just want to make sure that they didn't have a stealth-change in the codes for heat exchange...

Off topic, but is there any indication as to how exactly is the selection info in the debug tool is calculated?  Specifically, how many significant figures or roundings did they do in the calculations for total heat of the tile?  I'm getting some REALLY weird results when testing pipe system materials and heat transfers, and I'm trying to figure out what's causing it...  (I know that the numbers contain only the air/water/solid portion of the tile, but not buildings or pipes, but it still doesn't explain some of the weird results I'm getting)

[Risu]

8 minutes ago, Reaniel said:

Ah, ok...  I just want to make sure that they didn't have a stealth-change in the codes for heat exchange...

Off topic, but is there any indication as to how exactly is the selection info in the debug tool is calculated?  Specifically, how many significant figures or roundings did they do in the calculations for total heat of the tile?  I'm getting some REALLY weird results when testing pipe system materials and heat transfers, and I'm trying to figure out what's causing it...  (I know that the numbers contain only the air/water/solid portion of the tile, but not buildings or pipes, but it still doesn't explain some of the weird results I'm getting)

The total joules?
specific heat capacity * temperature in Kelvin * (mass in kg * 1000) of each cell added together.