Tml90 Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 I haven't figured out temperature cooling quite yet. Could you help me understand why my current system is not working? The room have insulated tiles Liquid pipes are insulated. (Flow removed to check if that was effecting temperature) Gas pipes are insulated. Oxygen runs true two air coolers. (Input about 40C, output about 27C.) The room stays at about 33C. The oxygen runs in a circle so the oxygen is cooled more than once. What am I doing wrong and how can I fix this? I'd love a guide explaining how to reach different temperatures if one exists. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risu Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 How hot is the water sitting in the hydroponic tiles? Those aren't insulated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keylan Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Heat transfers very good throug airlocks so those are open gates for you high base heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tml90 Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share Posted May 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, Risu said: How hot is the water sitting in the hydroponic tiles? Those aren't insulated. The tiles themselves are starting out empty out now. The water in the pipes are generally around 33C. I need to cool down my water to get the temperature down? I haven't really found a good guide to cool water to specific temperatures. Do any of you know about one? 5 minutes ago, Keylan said: Heat transfers very good throug airlocks so those are open gates for you high base heat. Any way to solve that? This is my second pretty self-sufficient base. I got oxygen down in the first, power down is this one. My next base will have to solve temperature as I haven't really paid attention to that so far. I love this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasuha Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 A lot of heat is added by the plants themselves. They're warm and they're warming up the whole farm. All your air vents are over pressure and the air pipes are full. Reduce pressure in that room somewhat to achieve higher gas circulation, probably best by adding an excess spill on the pipe from the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tml90 Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 12 hours ago, Kasuha said: A lot of heat is added by the plants themselves. They're warm and they're warming up the whole farm. (...) probably best by adding an excess spill on the pipe from the pump. Thank you very much. Should I store my seeds in the cold biome or something then to drop the temperature a bit? In the future, I should probably build different storage containers dependent on where you have the perfect temperature for each seed. Could you please explain how you would go about fixing pressure? Do you simply mean the pump should redirect 50% of the gass (or less) somewhere else? As you can see in the first picture in my original post, I have a gas pipe in the wall that leads to the void. Would probably fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasuha Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 7 minutes ago, Tml90 said: Should I store my seeds in the cold biome or something then to drop the temperature a bit? AFAIK temperature of seeds does not affect the temperature of the plant when planted. But you may want to get seeds stored away from the farm as they're also dropped warm. 14 minutes ago, Tml90 said: Could you please explain how you would go about fixing pressure? Gas bridge will "steal" all packets from a pipe as long as the bridge's output port is empty. So make a pipe from the pump to a spill vent, then put a bridge on it that leads to the regulator. When the regulator becomes blocked, any extra gas produced by the pump will go to the spill vent, reducing pressure in the farm. As long as the spill vent isn't blocked, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risu Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Kasuha said: AFAIK temperature of seeds does not affect the temperature of the plant when planted. But you may want to get seeds stored away from the farm as they're also dropped warm. It seems plants are never assigned a temperature so they spawn with the default temperature given to basic entities: 293 K. 19.85 C. Oh and the Creature element, the element plants use, has the second highest specific heat capacity. Abyssallite being the highest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattja Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Been experimenting with temperature myself and my findings may help you out a bit here. It seems to be more effective to just heat or cool down rooms with a radiator like system than pumping cool gas into it. It avoids the pressure problem and acts faster. Best way to do this would be to have non insulated pipes going across the room. One with cold and one with hot. Then mount 2 temp switches smack in the middle and have them send either cold or hot through the pipes depending on your needs. Although you may get away with only cold, as heating rooms tend to happen naturally. I would advice to use water for this, as that is easier to control, works quicker and is easier to come by. The water you pump into the plants does also play a large role, so you would want that to be as close to the temp you actually want for them as possible. When it comes to water temp, cooling it is actually very easy. Build something like what I have done here. Just ignore the steam geysir on the left, its just where my water comes from. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=935760138 The cold air from the room above rapidly cools the water under it whenever it is filled up. When the temperature you set on the temp switch under the pipe exit there is reached, it pumps it out to where you need it. CO2 can kinda break it if it gets in there though, so for that reason I like to just have the room filled with hydrogen so the dupes don't breathe in there. It also works out nicely as it transfers the cold even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tml90 Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 What a great design! I've been thinking about having water pools with different temperatures, but found no easy way to drop the temp. This room design is small enough that I can construct one pool per required temperature. Love it. Do you have to use something like abysalite to make this work or are insulated tiles enough? Can the doors to the right be dropped? I'm looking for the most minimalistic design possible. I also have a question about capacity. How hot is the water/steam for the geysir and how long does it take to cool to around 30C? Thank you again for a great post. I love how the few building options in the game forces the player to craft intricate systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1chinn0m Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 the simplest move i can see is to stop pumping oxygen from your electrolyzer room into that loop. that way your pump that is in the room can actually circulate the air that is in the room. its pulling 500g/s of gas from the room, but you keep trying to add 1000g/s back which keeps your vents overpressure so the gas just sits in the pipes waiting for space to move in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattja Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Tml90 said: What a great design! I've been thinking about having water pools with different temperatures, but found no easy way to drop the temp. This room design is small enough that I can construct one pool per required temperature. Love it. Do you have to use something like abysalite to make this work or are insulated tiles enough? Can the doors to the right be dropped? I'm looking for the most minimalistic design possible. I also have a question about capacity. How hot is the water/steam for the geysir and how long does it take to cool to around 30C? Thank you again for a great post. I love how the few building options in the game forces the player to craft intricate systems. No I do not use abysalite here, it's actually obsidian, but that isn't all that important. You could actually use sandstone and it would still work I think. It would bleed cold out if anything, so depends how important that is to you. Come to think of it, it would actually benefit you not to insulate it too much, as if it gets too cold you will just end up freezing the water. The door on the far right on the bottom can be dropped yes, but you need some way of dealing with the water that spills over the middle one once it fills up. I just added a door there so I could run in and mop it up. The water from the geysir is the normal 70-90C* but it may cool down some once it gets going. The first time you fill it up it will take a little time to cool down, depending on how cold your air is and how cold you want it. But if you have something like -10 in the air it will cool down within a cycle. It's quite fast. After that, it will just keep pumping it out at the set temp as fast as the geysir can produce it really. The way this works is that you basically only have to cool the top layer of a pool to change the temperature of the entire thing. When you build it like this, the top layer will only be a few grams which is very easy to cool down fast. You only have to cool down any of the tiles highlighted here: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=937065775 Btw, don't use too many worts, it just gets way too cold. Personally I like to be able to control it, so I run a pipe with cold gas behind the top layer of the water instead so I can make sure it won't get colder than I want it to be. If you like the thought of pools with different temps, then this might be an idea if you don't mind going a bit more advanced. Basic layout http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=937076351 Plumming http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=937076380 Wiering http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=937076391 Gas http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=937082379 Two pools, the top one is cold, and works just like before only that it's a closed system that loops back and is cooled by gas instead. The one under is warm, obviously, and is just heated directly with the tepidizer. And yes, it will be very power hungry when you first set it up. But once the water reaches the desired temperatures it barely changes and takes almost no power to maintain. That is the beauty of using water instead of gas which you will have to run constantly. Also, my cold pool is 7C* and the warm is 66C*. Not important, just what I use. They send water through the room to the left and are controlled by two temp switches. Just set them one step over and under the temp you want and it will equalize it perfectly. As in, if you want 20C* You set it to send cold water if it gets to 21, and hot at 19. Here you would want to insulate the walls and also not feed plants water that is too far away from the temp you want. Other than that it is a very stable and fast acting system. It is also quite adaptable, as you can easily change things around to suit your needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tml90 Posted June 1, 2017 Author Share Posted June 1, 2017 15 hours ago, Rattja said: The way this works is that you basically only have to cool the top layer of a pool to change the temperature of the entire thing. When you build it like this, the top layer will only be a few grams which is very easy to cool down fast. (...) You only have to cool down any of the tiles highlighted here: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=937065775 I tried to build your structure. I reversed it, but other than that, it should be constructed like yours. The water is pumped in at around 60C and quickly dropped to 31C. I can't get it colder than that however. What am I doing wrong here? The system has been running for around 11 cicles now without any further change in temperature. The temperature in the area started out around 35C before I built anything. I guess I should ideally have built it in a colder area, but I wanted to check if it would work in my existing base as a test. Thank you so much for the help so far. I'll take a look at your more intricate design in my next play-trough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsterFenix Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 You actually have the same problem with me. I’m trying to figure out how to cool down the room temp to -35 degree to grow perfect grains. This method won’t work since water freeze at 0 degree and there is no way you can achive negative degree with water. The growing room HAS to be filled with hydrogen, which doesn’t freeze/liquidify at -35. I also have the same problem with running circulated system. I don’t know how people achieve super cooled hydrogen at -100 degree Celcius but it is entirely impossible during my play through and I assume people use debug mode to achive that. Look like there is something changed during the last patch that limit the cooling capacity of regulators to fixed -15 degree or so. No matter how long you run the loop, or through how many regulators, the temp inside the room won’t fall lower than -15 degree of the starting temperature. The only way to grow colder crops is actually go to colder biomes (within 15 degree difference from your required temperature). The above method is great for cooling down water from geyser though and I greatly appreciate that but for entirely different purpose then what you and me are trying to achieve here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattja Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 5 hours ago, Tml90 said: I tried to build your structure. I reversed it, but other than that, it should be constructed like yours. The water is pumped in at around 60C and quickly dropped to 31C. I can't get it colder than that however. What am I doing wrong here? The system has been running for around 11 cicles now without any further change in temperature. The temperature in the area started out around 35C before I built anything. I guess I should ideally have built it in a colder area, but I wanted to check if it would work in my existing base as a test. Thank you so much for the help so far. I'll take a look at your more intricate design in my next play-trough. Hm... The warm walls are not ideal, it will slow it down but should not make it stop entierly so unlikely to be the main problem. Just built one on a new save to test and it should still work even with 50C* hot walls. What temperature does the gas in the upper chamber have, what kind of gas is it, how high is the pressure and do you have more than one type of gas in there? Maybe some CO2 snuk in, it doesn't seem to like that. As the only thing I can think of is either CO2 acting as insulator between your worts and the water because it's terrible like that, or the pressure is simply too low and the cold doesn't transfer well. Another trick that you could try is to activate your pump for like 1 second by quickly swapping between modes on the temp switch. Doing so will make it refill itself back up and it tends to jump down in temp and can kickstart it back on track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebebinator Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Yeah I have this problem too, and in my case it was all CO2's fault. That garbage is awful when you're trying to cool things down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tml90 Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 13 hours ago, Rattja said: What temperature does the gas in the upper chamber have, what kind of gas is it, how high is the pressure and do you have more than one type of gas in there? Maybe some CO2 snuk in, it doesn't seem to like that. (...) As the only thing I can think of is either CO2 acting as insulator between your worts and the water because it's terrible like that, or the pressure is simply too low and the cold doesn't transfer well. Well. Your right. I do really hate gases in this game sometimes though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattja Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Yea that is rather annoying, which is why I prefer to cool it with gas pipes instead of worts as it eliminates that issue. Demands a little more power, but if you are going to use pumps to keep unwanted gas out anyways it may be a better way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keylan Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 18 hours ago, AsterFenix said: You actually have the same problem with me. I’m trying to figure out how to cool down the room temp to -35 degree to grow perfect grains. This method won’t work since water freeze at 0 degree and there is no way you can achive negative degree with water. The growing room HAS to be filled with hydrogen, which doesn’t freeze/liquidify at -35. I also have the same problem with running circulated system. I don’t know how people achieve super cooled hydrogen at -100 degree Celcius but it is entirely impossible during my play through and I assume people use debug mode to achive that. Look like there is something changed during the last patch that limit the cooling capacity of regulators to fixed -15 degree or so. No matter how long you run the loop, or through how many regulators, the temp inside the room won’t fall lower than -15 degree of the starting temperature. The only way to grow colder crops is actually go to colder biomes (within 15 degree difference from your required temperature). The above method is great for cooling down water from geyser though and I greatly appreciate that but for entirely different purpose then what you and me are trying to achieve here. This is definatly not true, while the mechanics of infinitr cooling or heating with gases without additional energy input have been adressed, cooling a room to any temprerature is still possible and mosty a matter of propper isolation. I rebuild a hydrogen Bubbler in a slime biome witch needs to cool down to -200°C. This was done with 3 regulators and is now hard to substain as running those on top of pumps is quilte energyconsuming. With those 3 regulators i first struugeld as my room wouldn cool down to less than -170°C. This was a room fully enclosed with Isolating Tiles made from abysolate, and a second layer of regular sandstone tiles. I realised the room wouldnd cool down anymore because my single entrance with tree staggered airlock rooms still allowed for huge amounts of heat to enter the room and equaliy cold to leak out. Once i seald this entrace entirely with abysalite insolating tiles the temprature dropped to -200°C and more. Now this kind of isolation is not achiable for farming rooms wich need to be accessible. I cooled my room a little to much and got some broken Pipes due to phase change within them. Repairing those ans taking some small changes on the setup heated the room quite a bit and froze half of my base, so yes it is a huge struggle, and i have various projects where i need rooms with a special atmosphere and temprature wich can only be achieved by total sealing. Having to change anyithing of trhe setup once the romme was primed is a huge pain as it usualy takes ~20 to 40 circles to clean the mess (evacuate the room entirely) refill the room and achive the desired tempreature. But the key component is a propper isolation wich is not achievable with airlocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PickPay Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Not sure this has been mentioned just wanted to say I believe insulated pipes/tiles do transfer heat somewhat just less it actually depends on the mineral used, if Abyssalite then it won't. Correct me if I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risu Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 25 minutes ago, PickPay said: Not sure this has been mentioned just wanted to say I believe insulated pipes/tiles do transfer heat somewhat just less it actually depends on the mineral used, if Abyssalite then it won't. Correct me if I'm wrong. If you feel like doing some math, normal buildings have an insulation value of 1. Insulated tiles have 0.01. Insulated pipes have 0.05. BUT only the tile ever receives the insulator component which tells the simulator about that 0.01. As far as I can tell, the insulated pipes never actually use that number. Everything just checks if it is less than 1, which is only used for graphics. Probably worth doing some science with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsterFenix Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Thanks for the reply. I see the problem is with the airlock. Is there anyway they can i troduce proper airlock for heavy cooling tasks? How rlse can I avhieve -35 degree to grow perfect wheat beside from going to cold biomes? And what happen when all the ice melts? anyone experienced with a total meltdoen cold buomr? What is the temp will be there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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