Steam tower

[Chaboots]

Hey everyone, here is the method I use to create steam.

It can make good batches although it can be much more of a hassle than the battery room method.

Steps:

1. Build the room.

2. Uncheck sweep/deliver for all dupes. (else they will run away with the hot metal)

3. Deconstruct the hydrogen generators and the tiles on which the hot raw metal lies upon. (the generators must have been activated so they are hot)

4. Reep the benefits of a massive load of steam.

[majom]

but how long remain hot the metal parts?

[DonDegow]

It's actually one of the best way of reliably having hot material, no need to dig to magma; I love this idea.

You could improve it by using airlocks instead of tiles under the generators as those can just be opened and closed at will.

I might use your idea to mess around.

[Mast3r07]

The only drawback is extraction speed. Yes, a massive load of steam is produced, but using just a gas pump will take you years to effectively extract it. Furthermore, the steam must be cooled down to +98°C in order to condense. If you're pouring the purified water in the same container you're currently using(and if it's the only one), it's bad, because the water production is slower than the water consumption, and you won't live much time (unless you're using exploits - like contaminated water looping in showers and "live in contaminated oxygen with no problems").

[Mast3r07]

I'd still suggest you to dig a tunnel to magma and let the steam rise and condense by itself. The purified water will fall in a container at the bottom of the tunnel, and from there, you collect with a liquid pump (and gas pumps at the same time if you want even faster). This way you'll produce more than you consume.

[DonDegow]

I'm sorry Master but you're not making any sense to me.

[Mast3r07]

I should put some screenshots, right? 

[DonDegow]

That's not what I meant.

To me it looks like your making up fake issues with this design, like "If you're pouring the purified water in the same container you're currently using"; no, you can see the gas pump pulling out the steam through 3 thermo-regulator (yes there is maybe some overkill with that) then to the gas vent over to the left "empty" reservoir.

On the one hand, magma is tricky to use as it easily over heat your whole base, fine tuning the condensation point is quite a hassle as temperatures changes over time and the worst : your dupes have to suffer for ~40 cycles to get to it and be able to pour water on some (even longer if it's just sitting under a huge pool of cont. water as this happens quite often).

Building a bunch of generators is easy, deconstructing them, heat the water, reconstruct from the now cold metal and redo; simple, effective and close to your base.

On the other hand, I agree with you that once a good setup with magma is built, it requires almost no maintenance, only keeping an eye once in a while.

My point is, why not use BOTH systems?

[Mast3r07]

Im a bit low in water, this is my issue at the moment. 

Well, yeah, you can use both systems. 

I will show you mine in 5 minutes, too see what im talking about..

 

[Mast3r07]

So, this is my steam room:

Im collecting with liquid pump and gas pumps at the same time for maximum speed. Steam rises to half of room's height, so no heat problems with my base.

Im currently using only one container with pure water for all my needs. This is the reason why im saying: 

59 minutes ago, Mast3r07 said:

it's bad, because the water production is slower than the water consumption, and you won't live much time

And from there....

And if i dont produce more than i consume, im doomed. Im using like 10 liquid valves to minimize the consumption rate.

I hope you understand my point, now.

[DonDegow]

Your colony is neat!

Although can I advice you to not use fans to cool your plants but thermo-regulators as power is far less valuable than water (fans use water).

I'm quite surprised your liquid water seem to be a rock solid 28°C in your tank.

Back to the topic, the totally under control environment with generators is something I like a lot.

[Mast3r07]

Im waiting for the rocks at the bottom to gain temperature, and i stopped steam extraction for a while. In the meantime, water cooled down. And the fans are disabled. The rooms with the plants are sealed, so zero air transfer. I managed to cool down the air there to cca 15 degrees C and thats it, perfect environment.

Lets return to OP's system.....I like it too, but it can cause steam leaks in your colony, if you're not fast enough. I mean, you will open that door at least five times to replace materials, and one dupe will stay right in it to build the first hydrogen generator (not so intelligent AI)

[Chaboots]

6 hours ago, majom said:

but how long remain hot the metal parts?

The metal stays hot long enough to heat up approximately 1600kgs of water to steam in this setup. It cools down as the water heats up, so depending on the amount of water you injected, the metal might still be hot enough for another batch of water.

 

5 hours ago, DonDegow said:

It's actually one of the best way of reliably having hot material, no need to dig to magma; I love this idea.

You could improve it by using airlocks instead of tiles under the generators as those can just be opened and closed at will.

I might use your idea to mess around.

Happy you like it! I will have to try airlocks, do buildings work on top of them if in closed state?

 

4 hours ago, Mast3r07 said:

The only drawback is extraction speed. Yes, a massive load of steam is produced, but using just a gas pump will take you years to effectively extract it. Furthermore, the steam must be cooled down to +98°C in order to condense. If you're pouring the purified water in the same container you're currently using(and if it's the only one), it's bad, because the water production is slower than the water consumption, and you won't live much time (unless you're using exploits - like contaminated water looping in showers and "live in contaminated oxygen with no problems").

I will not deny that it takes a couple of cycles to extract the steam, but I believe that by adding another gas pump my water purification will exceed my water consuption. And the steam does go through the thermoregulators to avoid overpressurization in my water tank.

 

4 hours ago, DonDegow said:

That's not what I meant.

To me it looks like your making up fake issues with this design, like "If you're pouring the purified water in the same container you're currently using"; no, you can see the gas pump pulling out the steam through 3 thermo-regulator (yes there is maybe some overkill with that) then to the gas vent over to the left "empty" reservoir.

On the one hand, magma is tricky to use as it easily over heat your whole base, fine tuning the condensation point is quite a hassle as temperatures changes over time and the worst : your dupes have to suffer for ~40 cycles to get to it and be able to pour water on some (even longer if it's just sitting under a huge pool of cont. water as this happens quite often).

Building a bunch of generators is easy, deconstructing them, heat the water, reconstruct from the now cold metal and redo; simple, effective and close to your base.

On the other hand, I agree with you that once a good setup with magma is built, it requires almost no maintenance, only keeping an eye once in a while.

My point is, why not use BOTH systems?

I indeed thought that 3 thermos could be too much and then removed one and according to my calculations the steam would come out water. The thing is the steam temperature might vary depending on the amount of water you turn to steam. In my last batch the steam came out still as steam although it was not enough to cause overpressurization.

And i agree, I do plan on using the power of magma later in my game!

 

3 hours ago, Mast3r07 said:

Im waiting for the rocks at the bottom to gain temperature, and i stopped steam extraction for a while. In the meantime, water cooled down. And the fans are disabled. The rooms with the plants are sealed, so zero air transfer. I managed to cool down the air there to cca 15 degrees C and thats it, perfect environment.

Lets return to OP's system.....I like it too, but it can cause steam leaks in your colony, if you're not fast enough. I mean, you will open that door at least five times to replace materials, and one dupe will stay right in it to build the first hydrogen generator (not so intelligent AI)

There is some leakage, but the way my setup is made, it will never get past my batteries or get into my living area.

[DonDegow]

7 minutes ago, Chaboots said:

Happy you like it! I will have to try airlocks, do buildings work on top of them if in closed state?
 

I can't be 100% sure for Hydro generators as I didn't test it yet, but for massage tables it works very well IF you DON'T use the pneumatic door, this one is just not considered as a foundation at all.

I actually use this technique to make one-way gates to drop dupes in a pool of vomiters without having these already in the pool able to leave.

NB : as you open the gate, buildings over it are disabled it's basically a physical switch.

[MarkusReese]

6 hours ago, Mast3r07 said:

...unless you're using exploits - like contaminated water looping in showers...

Know this is getting a bit off topic, but that one I wouldnt consider an exploit.  It fits with real world and current systems found all over.  It is not genetating, consuming or bypassing any form of mechanic.  The shower output matches input and still must be processed whether closed loop or tank and pump.

The one part I would consider exploit that I just thought about as I write this, the lack of any sort of pumping system....  Hrm.  I shall no longer closed circuit on those grounds alone.

[Chaboots]

5 hours ago, DonDegow said:

I can't be 100% sure for Hydro generators as I didn't test it yet, but for massage tables it works very well IF you DON'T use the pneumatic door, this one is just not considered as a foundation at all.

I actually use this technique to make one-way gates to drop dupes in a pool of vomiters without having these already in the pool able to leave.

NB : as you open the gate, buildings over it are disabled it's basically a physical switch.

I gotta say it works perfectly! They can even step on the doors when they are closed which is very practical.

 

[DonDegow]

I did mess around with your technique yesterday and have been able to easily construct 900°C Airlocks

Having an airlock so hot is very convenient for heating purpose, if you construct a pipe (yes, even the insulated ones) behind this kind of airlock it's getting super hot in a matter of seconds and maybe about a cycle to reach max temperature; making you able to easily produce 900°C RAW MINERAL.

Using this may be the key for super easy steam machine, thanks again for thinking of this very simple trick.

EDIT : thinking of it, you maybe could use these super hot airlocks, in place of generators in your setup and just build wires and pipes behind the airlocks, deconstruct them when they're hot, redo; no need to feed hydrogen in generators, fast deconstruct/reconstruct, but way less hot mass falling in the water, mind this.

[Saturnus]

Pipes and wires do cool down over time whereas tiles do not. Copper, which has the highest thermal conductivity, gas permeable tiles seems like the best solution.

However, If you have the time and patience, you can just have a long hall way of airlocks. They heat up the pipes and wires, remember to fill the area with liquid and gas pipes as well as wires to have the maximum effect. When it's heated up all the pipes you open up all the airlocks and let the water in to produce steam. Once your pipes starts to get too cold to produce steam at the rate you want, you just close the airlocks again and reheat the pipes since solid tiles like airlocks never lose their initial temperature.

But still. The easiest way to get superhot materials (or supercold) in basically unlimited quantities is to make a storage compactor out of superhot (or supercold) materials.

[DonDegow]

that's my point Saturnus, using Chaboots setup I suggested this :

1 - instantly heat metal to 950°C with generator.

2 - use this very metal to build a 950°C airlock (that doesn't change in temperature until next update)

3 - build wires and pipes right behind the 2 tile of the airlock itself.

4 - wait a little bit, these 2 wires and 4 pipes (gas+liquid) will get to 950°C in about a cycle. (well you can even build the insulated wires and pipes to heat more material at once)

5 - Deconstruct the wires + pipes to pour their components in the water : profit.

6 - Return to step 3.

In the end the 2 tile wide airlock remains the same temperature and you don't need to rebuild and refeed generators again and again, just wires and pipes that are super fast to build.

It also provides you an easy way to acquire (really) hot raw mineral (by heating the pipes and recovering the components) that you can turn into a hot storage compactor if you don't use it directly to boil water  

NB : I've had less success with gas permeable tiles and mesh tiles than manual airlocks; I need to do more tests about this.

Edit : adding insulated wires adds a flat 350kg of metal (2*200 - 2*25), it should be worth it.

[mrbunnyban]

I love this discussion, so many ideas I hadn't considered for boiling water!  The storage compactor one looks especially promising to me: assign ONE metal to a specific superhot compactor in the water, once it's hot unassign it to drop the superhot metal back out.

As SonDegow points out though, whatever plans we come up with may not last next update when they meddle with how temperature works haha. It's one of the things on the roadmap

[jigggy2000]

24 minutes ago, mrbunnyban said:

whatever plans we come up with may not last next update when they meddle with how temperature works haha. It's one of the things on the roadmap

For the most part there might be even more better and interesting ways to heat/cool stuff in the next update. It is completely all about temperature after all. They've even added buildings dedicated to heating air and water.

Can't wait for the update.

[Saturnus]

1 hour ago, mrbunnyban said:

As SonDegow points out though, whatever plans we come up with may not last next update when they meddle with how temperature works haha. It's one of the things on the roadmap

Yeah, that's why I'm not really going to dig too deep into making more advanced set ups before I see what I have to play around with in the update next week.

Some ideas I've had which limited testing shows have potential in this instalment however are:

1) maintenance-free high efficiency feedback loop valve controlled thermo-regulators. If you need to liquefy contaminated O2 into pure O2 for example you need inline 17-18 thermo-regulators or run it through a loop and watching the temperatures to stop the process before the O2 (or the game) freezes. Instead you have an intake valve (or several in parallel) setting the intake to the desired flow rate before the thermoregulator. 100g/s is a good example because it's the maximum setting on a air valve, and it's the exact amount of oxygen needed for a regular dupe. Then after you have a series of valve on the output that loops back to the input of the thermoregulator after the intake valve. Since valves are one-way valves that means you force half the stream at this point back to the input. For each valve you double the efficiency of thermoregulator, so after inline 4 feedback valves all set to the same value as the input valve you thermoregulator is running at 16 times higher efficiency. Just remember that the limiting factor here is the 10kg/s that the pipes can transmit as the pressure at the intake is also doubled for each valve. Now you just put on a 5th inline feed back valve and start by setting this to the minimum 10g/s which should be the same as a system running 16.8 inline thermoregulators. You need to tweak it a bit but it should fairly straight-forward to dial in so you can have a constant stream of liquefied O2.

2) super condenser. If you're making steam on a small scale just to resupply the small amount of water used by your lavatories and showers because you're already liquifying O2 for the oxygen supply. Why not combine the steam condenser and O2 evaporation into a super fast and efficient condenser that instantly reverts liquid O2 into regular O2 at a comfortable temperature and condenses down the steam to water at a temperate temperature all in one go. It's just a matter of fine tuning the system to avoid having the water freeze which is the greatest threat but can easily be avoided by introducing more heat through the regular methods.

[mrbunnyban]

1 hour ago, jigggy2000 said:

For the most part there might be even more better and interesting ways to heat/cool stuff in the next update. It is completely all about temperature after all. They've even added buildings dedicated to heating air and water.

Can't wait for the update.

It sounds great!

34 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Yeah, that's why I'm not really going to dig too deep into making more advanced set ups before I see what I have to play around with in the update next week.

Some ideas I've had which limited testing shows have potential in this instalment however are:

1) maintenance-free high efficiency feedback loop valve controlled thermo-regulators. If you need to liquefy contaminated O2 into pure O2 for example you need inline 17-18 thermo-regulators or run it through a loop and watching the temperatures to stop the process before the O2 (or the game) freezes. Instead you have an intake valve (or several in parallel) setting the intake to the desired flow rate before the thermoregulator. 100g/s is a good example because it's the maximum setting on a air valve, and it's the exact amount of oxygen needed for a regular dupe. Then after you have a series of valve on the output that loops back to the input of the thermoregulator after the intake valve. Since valves are one-way valves that means you force half the stream at this point back to the input. For each valve you double the efficiency of thermoregulator, so after inline 4 feedback valves all set to the same value as the input valve you thermoregulator is running at 16 times higher efficiency. Just remember that the limiting factor here is the 10kg/s that the pipes can transmit as the pressure at the intake is also doubled for each valve. Now you just put on a 5th inline feed back valve and start by setting this to the minimum 10g/s which should be the same as a system running 16.8 inline thermoregulators. You need to tweak it a bit but it should fairly straight-forward to dial in so you can have a constant stream of liquefied O2.

2) super condenser. If you're making steam on a small scale just to resupply the small amount of water used by your lavatories and showers because you're already liquifying O2 for the oxygen supply. Why not combine the steam condenser and O2 evaporation into a super fast and efficient condenser that instantly reverts liquid O2 into regular O2 at a comfortable temperature and condenses down the steam to water at a temperate temperature all in one go. It's just a matter of fine tuning the system to avoid having the water freeze which is the greatest threat but can easily be avoided by introducing more heat through the regular methods.

 

1 Er, I have a lot of trouble following your description sorry. >.< I would like to understand how on earth valves make the thermoregulator more effective.
My idea was to funnel the cooled air after a thermoregulator into a room, at the bottom of the room is a water pump. 02 that is cold enough to liquefy is pumped out by water pump, O2 that isn't cold enough and still in gas form is pumped out by air pump back into thermoregulator. 

2 I was having the exact same thought! Dump liquid 02 and hot steam together. It may be the more sensible option for dealing with steam created from lava, seems folks have a lot of trouble creating enough steam. Looking at the steam towers with 20+ batteries folks are posting up just to make enough water for 1 electrolizer which lags out the pcs doesn't look viable to me.

[DonDegow]

@mrbunnyban

Valves do make thermo-regulators more efficient depending on how you use it; you need to loop-back the output to the input but if you don't use a valve it tends to conflict with gas incoming the other way (valves are one-way only, they're used like electronic diodes in such a setup).

Although the fine tuning is quite heavy, I didn't succeed to have a stable output of LOX, valve helps but having a perfect setup is really hard.

[Saturnus]

Maybe using the gas pump feedback and liquid pump outlet is best as a final stage. And just having feedback looped on the initial stage.

However, the calculation of negative gain is the sum of the flow through the valves squared. So if you have 4 valves at 100% the same throughput as the input valve and one at 10% it's the same as 4.1^2=16.81 inline thermoregulators. EDIT: that can't be right. Let me set it up and check the numbers when I have access to my regular PC later this weekend.