Mod "adoption" question

[lynn]

I have been playing with the custom character Puppy Princess for a while now. Sadly the latest version still got some bugs. Most noticeable the one that recovers your hp and hunger to full whenever getting any exp.

 

I fixed the bug myself and been trying to get an "official update" on the mod but the creator was last seen over 3 months ago. I tried to reach sunnyyyyholic thru steam aswell but he/she hasn't logged in there in almost 4 months. Trying to reach the second creator listed on steam "floppycat" hasn't worked out either. While his profile is private, I managed to find out that he has been online recently, it just seems that he is not taking notice on the latest messages in the mod discussions anymore as the latest message from him i could find was from july 12.

 

So I was wondering if it's fine to reupload (Of course with description merely redirecting to the original mod) the mod or if it's possible for someone to create some kind of temporary bugfix branch in the original page until "official" version 6 comes out, if it ever comes out.

[Mobbstar]

If I was going to upload a hotfix-ed version of the puppy princess, I would urgently make sure to:

• clarify that it is an unofficial bugfix version
• clarify that it is an unofficial bugfix version
• link to the original mod
• credit the original authors
• leave a note about the bugfix version at the original mod's page
• declare it as an unofficial bugfix in modinfo.lua

I am not a legal expert though, so don't take my word for it! (I don't think the mod is copyright-ed, but still be careful about steam workshop standards)

 

Oh, and grats on fixing someone else's mess! That's something you would not have to do, and nobody could anticipate. In one word: honorable

[kraken121]

I have been playing with the custom character Puppy Princess for a while now. Sadly the latest version still got some bugs. Most noticeable the one that recovers your hp and hunger to full whenever getting any exp.

 

I fixed the bug myself and been trying to get an "official update" on the mod but the creator was last seen over 3 months ago. I tried to reach sunnyyyyholic thru steam aswell but he/she hasn't logged in there in almost 4 months. Trying to reach the second creator listed on steam "floppycat" hasn't worked out either. While his profile is private, I managed to find out that he has been online recently, it just seems that he is not taking notice on the latest messages in the mod discussions anymore as the latest message from him i could find was from july 12.

 

So I was wondering if it's fine to reupload (Of course with description merely redirecting to the original mod) the mod or if it's possible for someone to create some kind of temporary bugfix branch in the original page until "official" version 6 comes out, if it ever comes out.

In most modding communities this is considered bad etiquette, you never take someone else's mod and modify it and upload it (without their permission), you should post the bug on their forum thread with the fix, if they want to fix it then they will. 

[lynn]

I guess I'll try to reach the creators one more time then. If that doesn't work out.. well I guess too bad for everyone else playing her, my motivation won't go as far as to get me to study any legal stuff and if i am to err, better err on the safe side.

At least I had some fun fixing the reported bugs and adding some requested tweaks, also learning lua and ds modding in the process.

 

Thanks for the answers! 

[Heavenfall]

If the mod has been abandoned I don't see a problem with updating it. It's been done plenty of times in this community before. Mobbstar's list is good. As for legal issues, since you're not making money off it the worst that can happen is someone asks you to take it down. Ie there is no issue.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Heavenfall

[lynn]

If the mod has been abandoned I don't see a problem with updating it. It's been done plenty of times in this community before. Mobbstar's list is good. As for legal issues, since you're not making money off it the worst that can happen is someone asks you to take it down. Ie there is no issue.

 

That's a good point. I have given up on contacting the second creator. He simply won't reply to any messages in mod discussions, accept friend request or group chat invite and steam doesn't seem to provide any other ways of contacting someone.

Time to do some checklist on the reported bugs now!

Thanks for the reply!

[kraken121]

That's a good point. I have given up on contacting the second creator. He simply won't reply to any messages in mod discussions, accept friend request or group chat invite and steam doesn't seem to provide any other ways of contacting someone.

Time to do some checklist on the reported bugs now!

Thanks for the reply!

Whether it is legal or not does not matter, anything that is uploaded to the website belongs to Klei IIRC

 

Its a matter or etiquette and general manners as I posted above, in most modding communities (I've been mod'n for about 20 years) This type of behavior is considered disrespectful and rude.

 

If the mod is a small tweak here or there to the game, it's not a big issue to re-upload a mod if it has become inactive, but in the case of the mod stated above, there is a lot of art, music, etc put in, you have absolutely no right to re-upload it just because you feel part of it is wrong. This is their work and it's their decision if they want to keep updating it or not, it's not your decision.

 

If you do not like the way it is, then re-code it the way you want and keep it on your own PC.

[TheDanaAddams]

The option you're all missing here is patch-mods - I've done a few for Link (even though he's really broken right now) and I believe someone did release a patch-mod to update an older, orphaned mod, and make it work again.

 

Make your own mod that will correct the broken code, but still require the original to be activated.

You can do this with load ordering.

 

They're out of date and broken, right now, but check out these:

My base Link mod: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=179124884

A simple patch for it: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=220011987

A slightly more involved patch: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=227043510

 

(Hey look, I'm alive. Ish.)

[lynn]

Alright, I changed my mind again. While I'm very interested in the option Dana brought up, the fact that this seems to be some kind of taboo among modders annoys me lot and since at first I was just wondering if it's fine to reupload it bugfixed or if was possible to just easily add some temporary bugfix branch or not, all this seems to be a clear no-no.

That being said, I'll keep the bug free version only for myself.

And just making it a little clear on the tweak i made, it was just one of her skills, lightning strike, that would set fire on everything nearby whenever it would proc. I noticed there were a few lines of the original code unsuccesfuly trying to get rid of the fire, so i complimented that to actually do it. Other than that, i fixed the health/hunger going back to full on any exp bug and was working on fixing this other bug they left in the mod description "[Warning] Known issue: 1level yamche put on head(equip) and then when you enter or leave the cave, Crash the game (CTD)", also did some rewriting in the main prefab as the original code was bit messy with a lot of copy and paste like floppycat mentioned (ended up going down from 2.2k lines to 700 while keeping the same functionalities).

 

Anyway, bug free version only for myself, question closed.

Thanks for the answers!

 

Still going to check Dana's code tho but I hope it won't make me change my mind again

Thanks for the hints!

[seronis]

"Its a matter or etiquette and general manners as I posted above, in most modding communities (I've been mod'n for about 20 years) This type of behavior is considered disrespectful and rude."

 

While this comment is true, the kind of people who have that attitude are not worthy of having their opinions respected. 

 

When you fix something that is broken you are doing a service and an appreciated one. Keep up the good work

[Heavenfall]

the fact that this seems to be some kind of taboo among modders annoys me lot 

 

This was your take-away from a thread where ONE PERSON speaks against?

Edited September 11, 2014 by Heavenfall

[DeathDisciple]

'Adoption' implies taking ownership of someone elses work/result/product. That is quite different than doing community a service by patching the issues and uploading the patch. Especially if being done without the consent of the people that have originally put effort and time in providing said community with the product completely free.

 

What Dana said is clearly the best option, failing that, Mobbstar's list is appropriate one. Not doing either and just 'adopting it' and reuploading is a different matter altogether, please cut down on entitlement.

 

 

This was your take-away from a thread where ONE PERSON speaks against?

 

Do you want/expect the whole team to come here so it doesn't look like 'just one person'?

 

 

"Its a matter or etiquette and general manners as I posted above, in most modding communities (I've been mod'n for about 20 years) This type of behavior is considered disrespectful and rude."

 

While this comment is true, the kind of people who have that attitude are not worthy of having their opinions respected. 

 

When you fix something that is broken you are doing a service and an appreciated one. Keep up the good work

 

Sure, we can't prevent anyone from disrespecting our work (and 'opinions' on how said work should or should not be used). After all we're all anonymous right, everything is allowed. We're not worthy of any sort of respect, we're just some fail modders doing all this stuff out of our spare time for free, so that the rest of the community can enjoy the game better.

 

Yet we're unworthy of any sort of respect, let alone respect for our work put into making the mods happen, it's supposed to be treated as public property. Thanks for your understanding and  supporting the community....

[lynn]

I've been looking into Dana's solution, it would take a while as i have refactored the whole thing and reworking it again into a patch goes beyond my plans, so i have been mostly "playtesting" . (Unless there would some function to completely overwrite a prefab)

Either way, a small plot twist here. Sunnyholic finally showed up again a few days ago. Hopefully that will mean an official update or that at least i'll be able to contact her for permission.

[seronis]

Yet we're unworthy of any sort of respect, let alone respect for our work put into making the mods happen, it's supposed to be treated as public property. Thanks for your understanding and  supporting the community....

Im a modder.  Someone fixing a bug in one of my mods and uploading the fixed version just did work. They have the right to upload that work. Its only disrespectful if they upload the exact same thing I did with no changes to a location I have already uploaded it to.  If they improve it in any way then great for them.  If its a site that im too lazy to upload to then great for them. Im not gonna be such an enttiled ass as to complain about someone doing a service. Fixing something is not disrespect. Its actually showing respect by wanting to make something they love, even better.

 

You should really rethink your view and WHY you have that (to me) misguided view.

[chromiumboy]

I wouldn't upload a simple 'fixed' version of any mod without having a dialogue with the original author. Ideally, if you thought there was a demand for a particular mod which hasn't been updated for a long time, you could write your own mod which offers something similar but with your own ideas and improvements. In this case, since it's a character mod, I think Dana's suggestion is best.

 

[DeathDisciple]

Im a modder.  Someone fixing a bug in one of my mods and uploading the fixed version just did work. They have the right to upload that work. Its only disrespectful if they upload the exact same thing I did with no changes to a location I have already uploaded it to.  If they improve it in any way then great for them.  If its a site that im too lazy to upload to then great for them. Im not gonna be such an enttiled ass as to complain about someone doing a service. Fixing something is not disrespect. Its actually showing respect by wanting to make something they love, even better.

 

You should really rethink your view and WHY you have that (to me) misguided view.

 

Sure, if that's how you want it with your mods, great. When I/we leave these boards, or before we do, we will have to put clear statements on licencing and expectations - as far as code is concerned anyway. Obviously, if I am no longer here I won't prevent anyone from forking and uploading their versions, but as long as I am active I'm sorry, they do have to keep me informed and ask for permissions before doing so. 

 

You're entitled to your opinion, you're unlikely to change mine even if I were willing to debate it - which I won't cause the main 'issue' of this thread has been apparently resolved by the modder and the OP. However stating that our opinion should not be respected and is worthless because it's different than yours is not exactly a way to strengthen your points, let alone win friends, and that's something you might want to think about in the future.

 

Or not, as I said, everything is allowed, we're all anon. (Well , my identity is easy to find out but regardless)

[Heavenfall]

Obviously if you have your own mod you can say "I don't want anyone to copy/edit this", but I don't think it's fair to apply that to everyone else just because.

[DeathDisciple]

Obviously, but also the fact that you decide to consider your mods public domain doesn't mean you can 'assume' everyone else does too. The main point of this is, you need to wait for the answer instead of assumption, unless you're certain. And 'everyone is required to ask for permission before ...' is far from 'i dont want anyone to copy/edit this'.

 

Mods are not normal open source projects in many ways, one being they require constant maintenance/support another the people involved/using them have huge range of capabilities/age/preferences/opinions, using public domain logic on them can just end up horrible for both modder and users, in my xp. There is no cross-versioning system, without clear links you end up with mismatches, multiple versions that differ in 2 lines and are at random point of development, people using your stuff for self promotion and due to lack of support end up hurting your own mod, etc etc. Sure, I have an ego, but the reasons behind the requirements is way more than that.

 

And how many people have had the issues with these assumptions, some even quitting modding/removing their mods altogether? Hell, even big/popular stuff like synergies had issues of that sorts. If we have to fight 'legal battles' with people claiming higher moral ground, instead of having fun, what the hell are we doing it for?

 

Hell this very convo is going to make me slap COPYRIGHT all over.

[lynn]

Hey, just dropping by to say that Sunnyholic is still unreachable. She had logged in on steam just the weekend before my previous post, so I tried adding her to fl/group chat and kinda hoped she would show up the next weekend. She haven't logged in again since tho.

 

Either way, I rewrote the files following Dana's solution. It's now a patch that requires the original mod. Only one known bug left to be fixed.