Nitpicking the bearger's loot. (Long)

[Doctor H. Derp]

Before I begin I'd just like to say I'm overall very pleased with RoGs and I've enjoyed every minute of the DLC, however as you can tell by the title, this isn't a thread about what I love about the DLC.

 

The Bearger's loot: I'm just unhappy with it. Now a few of you might vaguely remember the old threads I made way back in the day about how through vanilla Don't Starve I ardently refused to use a cold-resistant vest over the backpack, but in case you didn't already know that, that's my bias. I still maintain that none of the temperature resistant vests/chest slot items are worth the loss of the potential 8 inventory slots, so it might come to no surprise that I'd be a little bit critical of the hibearnation vest.

 

The hibearnation vest is a straight upgrade over the puffy vest in terms of sanity regeneration along with it's perk, but I guess I just don't get the perk.

Well, no, I mean I get the perk, I understand the pun in the item's name, I understand how it fits, I just don't see the point. Even when the island is frozen over at the height of winter, I've never had trouble finding food. In fact, especially on a default map, a lot of my food stores just goes straight into a rot chest to become well... rot because I just can't use it all. So the fact that my character takes longer to grow hungry matters very little.

 

So, what kind of player would benefit from taking longer to grow hungry? Probably a newer player -- a player that's certainly not going to be taking out a Bearger.

This isn't the first item that was aimed at staving off hunger longer, there's also the belt of hunger which is even more pronounced in it's ability to make it take longer before you need to eat, but you can only get the mats for that in the Ruins which is arguably the hardest set of biomes to survive in, so obviously a newer player is not where this loot is aimed at. Why would it be aimed at the DS veterans?

Even if a player concocted the most hostile, resource barren, hellish landscape to traverse in... would we really expect such a player playing in such a world to be that concerned with food to the point they need to reduce the rate at which their hunger gauge drains? Even when _Q_ personally edited the game files to make the world truly food and resource barren, far below what you could do with the sliders, he still felt that finding a surplus of food was too easy. Don't even get him started on how abusive he felt feeding monster meat to caged birds to produce eggs was -- and to be fair, he's kind of right.

 

Kevin's even made mention, way way back in the day back on RipTidePow's first forays into the caves, that the little secret behind Don't Starve is that no one really dies by starving, it's always something else that does them in.

 

I guess maybe this is like the perfect item for Wolfgang or Wes, but other than that it really feels to me at least that the perk is fairly underwhelming. You'd most likely be just as well off, if not then nearly, using a puffy vest which is kind of depressing.

 

 

Much the same sentiments toward the hibearnation vest I feel toward the insulated pack. Again, maybe this was the backpack specifically designed for Wickerbottom, but other than that, who is really benefiting from reduced spoilage when we have the ice box? You know, even if you just had to have a mobile ice box, why not pick up a Snow Chester? I guess what really adds insult to injury is that at least, if nothing else, the hibearnation vest is a straight upgrade in terms of the cold resistant vests: if you had the puffy vest, you wouldn't bother with the breezy vest, and likewise if you had the hibearnation vest you wont bother with the puffy vest. The insulated pack? It's a mere sidegrade. Reduced spoilage at the cost of 2 extra slots. I'm hard pressed to think of a single scenario beyond an entire base relocation in which mobile spoilage reduction would be nice, in which I can see this item possibly trumping a standard backpack. Just the addition of 2 extra slots would at least make it an upgrade over the backpack, an underwhelming upgrade IMO, but an upgrade nonetheless and at least it'd feel on par with the current hibearnation vest.

Or maybe the answer is to nerf the backpack to be only 4 slots. Make people really appreciate the piggyback(though I do appreciate the buff it already got) and the insulated pack then.

 

I can understand giants not dropping the "bezt lewtz evar!1" but when you compare these items to something like the eyebrella -- which is just an amazing item for all that it does... you begin to wonder why that item is so good and these items are so average. To be fair, one of the best selling points of the eyebrella is that it doesn't conflict with fan favorites such as a backpack or a walking cane, I admit, but even then, it's still really nice just on it's own.

 

I'm sure people could come up with an oddball, one-in-a-million chance, scenario in which having the hibearnation vest or the insulated pack saves the day, but for that special exception, how about that special exception when someone has the Krampus sack? Is anyone really going to swap that out for either of these items when they're totting that sack around? Maybe it's just me, I concede, but I doubt it.

 

Y'know maybe it really is just me. What do you guys think?

[mitboy]

I have not mastered the text. But if you say that they are , underpowered... maybe, this stuff not for your style?

These 2 things - the most useful drop (compared to other giants) for me.

[NeoDeusMachina]

Wow this is really a matter of opinion but I disagree with most of what you wrote (but not everything!).

 

As a veteran Don't Starve player, I do find the Hibearnation vest useful. It is not that I have problems finding food at all. However, what I like about the vest (or the belt of hunger) is the fact that as a veteran, I don't want to play the ''food gathering game'' anymore, because I have done it a lot. In that sense, I find items such as the Hibearnation vest to be interesting, because they allow me to focus my attention on things much more interesting than farming (or hunting for food) for a bit longer than I usually would. I think another purpose of this vest, although not written specifically anywhere, is that if I happen to be a victim of the Bearger' apetite and he eats everything I have before winter, then I can kill him and make this vest which will help me in the first few days of winter to get back on my feet while I try to remake your food supply. Granted, a veteran would probably not let that happen, but it can happen to a lot of players and the Hibearnation vest remains useful to them, if they manage to kill the Bearger (which they will eventually learn to do).

 

As for the insulated pack goes, I must say this is one of my favorite items from RoG. Prior to this item, I would never use a back pack except for the first couple of days while I was exploring the map and gathering basic supply in large quantity. Once I have a decent camp set up, I don't really need that much inventory space, I usually prefer exploring longer without having to warm up or cool down than having more inventory space. Also, with Chester, the back pack becomes a luxury. However, since I really like to explore caves and ruins, I must admit that I never leave the base without my thrusty insulated pack, especially when I'm going down in the caves. Why ? Because for starters, I hate carrying Chester around with me in the caves, especially Snow Chester, as it is a pain to manage and there are enough things to take care of down there without having to care for him. Since light bulbs spoil really fast, the insulated pack is really useful in caves as it makes it spoilage time much longer. When I go out exploring, I will most of the time (if not always) bring some food with me, but I don't like carrying jerky only, as there are much better food sources, but those sources spoil faster. Insulated pack, again, will help me carry this better food longer, meaning I can explore longer. I do agree that if you spend most of your time in your base with ice boxes, then the insulated pack is useless, but it is a really good item for people who like to explore for a long period without having to go back to camp (especially in the caves/ruins). I am sure you can manage with 2 less inventory space, I manage without a backpack most of the time.

 

Anyway, as I said, it remains a matter of opinion and gameplay style, but I tried to show some advantages of these items where you failed to see any! Hope that helped you like these items a bit more =)

[Tumalu]

Insulated pack can be useful for long trips, like into the ruins. Hibearnation Vest could also be good for this, probably moreso because you can put it in your inventory when you take it off instead of having to drop it on the ground.

 

Food in the ruins is a concern even if you -are- a veteran player, unless you just take 40 jerkies or something, which would take an awful lot of prep time and work to get ready in itself.

 

Insulated pack can also be used for ice/icecube in summer, and the vest in general would be useful for Wolfgang.

 

Part of this is just that you're addicted to your backpack. I rarely use one. Before RoG, I stopped ever even prototyping them after I learned to manage my inventory, although after coming back to the game in RoG's release I do use one occasionally now when I'm going out to gather a big load of lots of different things. Although yeah, in general situations, I can see why the bearger's loot isn't exactly really exciting. For Ruins exploration or Wolfgang though... I think it'd be pretty good. And as some earlier posters have said, they like the vest just because they can worry about hunger even less.

 

Edit:Oh, right, the vest gives a good chunk of sanity regen too, and is a tier-3 insulation item. That makes it perfect for caves/ruins/wolfgang, then, as it almost completely negates the sanity loss. Yeah, that's a really good item for caves/ruins, really good. I forgot it did more than just reduce hunger.

 

Both food and sanity are the biggest limiting factors in hanging out around the ruins, imo, and the vest deals with both of them. (It's not -that- bad to start going insane, but it's annoying, and the ruins are bad enough normally)

[NeoDeusMachina]

Insulated pack can also be used for ice/icecube in summer, and the vest in general would be useful for Wolfgang.

 

Oh yeah I can't believe I actually forgot to mention that! I spoke about it in another thread, though. Since I often go in the caves/ruins during summer, the insulated pack allows me to bring some ice/icecube with me (if needed) and it will preserve it for a long period of time. It's actually a pretty good use for this item =) Thanks for reminding me of that!

[Doctor H. Derp]

Honestly, the fact that there are people who really enjoy these items tells me that Klei probably balanced them just right, and while not every item is going to appeal to every player, the fact that there's a strong fanbase of these items tells me there's more than meets the eye to them.

 

Thanks for your feedback guys.

[NeoDeusMachina]

Honestly, the fact that there are people who really enjoy these items tells me that Klei probably balanced them just right, and while not every item is going to appeal to every player, the fact that there's a strong fanbase of these items tells me there's more than meets the eye to them.

 

Thanks for your feedback guys.

 

That is wisdom! Cheers.

[InaneDugong]

Agree with everything. Hybernation Vest is just my way of slacking off - I never actually need it, it just saves me from having to work.

 

Ironically, it's short-cuts like these that make me stop playing out of boredom periodically. 

 

If one was to cut the backpack to 4 slots, it'd be less of a no-brainer and more balanced, to be honest. If Passive Creatures weren't so few and stupid, gathering food wouldn't just be a test of finding it. If Chester didn't have 12187214876214875 health, taking Chester into every scenario bar Swamp-hunting (at least, for nubs. I have no problem coordinating Chester around tentacles - except when they bug out and skip the warning signal AND the pre-attack animations *it's happened to me...*) also wouldn't be such a forgotten thought-process.

 

Dunno, only issue with the existence of this thread is the devs don't really care about the top 5-10%-players who call themselves "vets". They aren't their target audience and Klei has probably assumed they'll stick around long enough for it not to be a problem.

[Shin]

I think the Hibearnation vest is good like that. Sanity bonus + hunger reduction + high tier insulation. I like it!

For the insulated pack I can't exactly say how good or bad it is. Does anyone know how good it prevents spoilage?