A bunch of misc. suggestions for the environment (Not by me)

[InaneDugong]

The reason it left you alone in adventure mode was because where he spawns he makes that his return point. When ever he goes to far away and can't find anything to kill or catch, he will go back to where he spawned and look there. When you ran from him, he gave up because you are not really worth it. Honestly, you are like a rabbit morsel to him.

 

 

I really don't know what is up with your other Deerclops experiences. People used to report this all the time, now only you do.

 

Tell that to my game! I don't know why it shows up as often as it stays. I don't know why I can't relate to anyone's experiences of this dreaded fowl. 

 

Hey, but interesting pointer on the AI of Adventure-clops. I suppose I'll report when I see one in Survival... -.- *Shrug* And I've even got Clops'o'clops on the highest custom rate of spawn. 

[Danest]

When starting a new game, there are options to choose more, default, or less of each resource or creature.  How about a "random" setting for each -- you don't know if there will be default, more, or less pigmen, for instance, you just have to find out.  I haven't fiddled with the settings much, but a random option I might try, so I'd have no idea exactly what sort of world I'd be getting until I explored. 

[Ridley]

When starting a new game, there are options to choose more, default, or less of each resource or creature.  How about a "random" setting for each -- you don't know if there will be default, more, or less pigmen, for instance, you just have to find out.  I haven't fiddled with the settings much, but a random option I might try, so I'd have no idea exactly what sort of world I'd be getting until I explored. 

 

That is what the teleportato in survival will do after a few times.

[ConeyKrab]

I honestly think you aren't criticized in justifying the giants, or mainly, the Deerclops. None of the major 4 giants are in the game yet, as far as I'm concerned. Until we get to play around with at least one of them, I wouldn't begin criticizing them. The Deerclops is more than likely going to change; sure, he's infrequent and not overly-threatening right now, but do you have any proof that he's going to stay this way?

 

Talking about the AI, things can and have changed. We get new things that we don't expect to happen, or didn't think would be plausible- a militant vegetarian, a creature that harnesses electricity, a bird that makes its presence known in the air, and the list can and will go on.

[brummbar7]

Um, as for Deerclops... the bugger made an entrance and left before I could even introduce. --the bugger is hopeless and, even with a 1-shot wonder ability, it has to TARGET ME FIRST. So, yeah, it'd seem that we're forever doomed with running>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>giants. 

My understanding of deerclops is that you're despoiling his pristine nature with your ugly structures.  His MO is to target your structures.  If you don't aggro him he will simply attack your strcuctures.  For me, even if I aggro him and then try to lead him to a trap or whatever, he loses interest every so often and heads back towards the structures.  I think it's intentional that you are of secondary concern to him.  He probably thinks you're just another hat-wearing pig (whose structures he hates equally to yours).  Running is always going to be the easiest way to avoid him, and probably all the other giants.  But it's the coward way out and doesn't get you any giant drops.  So I don't see that as a problem.

[InaneDugong]

I honestly think you aren't criticized in justifying the giants, or mainly, the Deerclops. None of the major 4 giants are in the game yet, as far as I'm concerned. Until we get to play around with at least one of them, I wouldn't begin criticizing them. The Deerclops is more than likely going to change; sure, he's infrequent and not overly-threatening right now, but do you have any proof that he's going to stay this way?

 

Talking about the AI, things can and have changed. We get new things that we don't expect to happen, or didn't think would be plausible- a militant vegetarian, a creature that harnesses electricity, a bird that makes its presence known in the air, and the list can and will go on.

 

Errr, do you have any proof that they'll rework the AI? Why would they go to effort where no effort was promised? Yeah, they might do something about the AI down the track due to complaints of DERRCLOPZ KEPS GOIN' FOUR MEH BASS, but otherwise, I can't see why they'd modify a "perfectly good Deerclops". Also, your predicates aren't applicable since they regard new content and not reworks of pre-existing content.

 

But hey, at least we agree that the bugger is totally useless. :3 

 

My understanding of deerclops is that you're despoiling his pristine nature with your ugly structures.  His MO is to target your structures.  If you don't aggro him he will simply attack your strcuctures.  For me, even if I aggro him and then try to lead him to a trap or whatever, he loses interest every so often and heads back towards the structures.  I think it's intentional that you are of secondary concern to him.  He probably thinks you're just another hat-wearing pig (whose structures he hates equally to yours).  Running is always going to be the easiest way to avoid him, and probably all the other giants.  But it's the coward way out and doesn't get you any giant drops.  So I don't see that as a problem.

 

Hey, I was playing Wendy and it was day 11. Give me a break. 

Ahem: does it really prioritise your base? I've got to test this, because that's absurd. >Loses aggro, >>AGGROS WALLS YARRGGG. Oh god that's so gratuitously inane. 

 

When starting a new game, there are options to choose more, default, or less of each resource or creature.  How about a "random" setting for each -- you don't know if there will be default, more, or less pigmen, for instance, you just have to find out.  I haven't fiddled with the settings much, but a random option I might try, so I'd have no idea exactly what sort of world I'd be getting until I explored.

 

 

It's not quite a points system but it'll have to do. Whilst 'random' doesn't give away anything about the world, you do have to be painfully aware that there's a chance of, say, no Pigmen at all and 200* Spiders, for instance. In a points system, it'd be as mystical as random in terms of surprises, but not intimidating in that you have a general feel of 'overall quantities' in a points system.

 

 

That is what the teleportato in survival will do after a few times.

Will it? Or are you trolling again?

I'd imagine that jumping from world to world would bring an acute contrast of the slight differences, but there isn't anything server-side that says 'Okay, they're going in for the fourth time, so, let's make this one WILD', right?

[DrNocturnal]

Impressive and serious suggestion.

 

I'm already kinda tedious because i know all the surviving tips, like InaneDugong said, nothing keeps it interesting after u know how to survive.

 

Because our surviving strategies are limited. There are bunch of things we'll never use, walls, all the darts, most of the magic items and ancient items.

 

They have fancy appearence but bare practicality.

 

As well as the recipes, meatballs, honey ham, fish sticks, meaty stew, pumpkin cookie, taffy, waffles, mandrake soup, dragon pie,bacon and eggs are all the food our players use in the games, others just don't funct this well.

 

I can say the majority of Chinese players would just make all these above for fun but would never use them.

[InaneDugong]

Impressive and serious suggestion.

 

I'm already kinda tedious because i know all the surviving tips, like InaneDugong said, nothing keeps it interesting after u know how to survive.

 

Because our surviving strategies are limited. There are bunch of things we'll never use, walls, all the darts, most of the magic items and ancient items.

 

They have fancy appearence but bare practicality.

 

As well as the recipes, meatballs, honey ham, fish sticks, meaty stew, pumpkin cookie, taffy, waffles, mandrake soup, dragon pie,bacon and eggs are all the food our players use in the games, others just don't funct this well.

 

I can say the majority of Chinese players would just make all these above for fun but would never use them.

 

Yep, basically. (Might be worth noting that the point about 'Chinese players' is somewhat a reference to a large group of players (and a bit of generalising servers from China and the kind of players that often arise from the conditions/geographic) from different eSports games that have linked their success and practise methods to pragmatism - it isn't intended to be racist as such).

 

Lots of superfluous stuff without any real practical place in the DS-meta. Being on this note already, I might add that the whole 'points system' of variation falls flat on this point too in that everything is balanced to the pace and gameplay of DS by this point, so to mess with that balance would throw out any meta currently existing.  

[DrNocturnal]

Yep, basically. (Might be worth noting that the point about 'Chinese players' is somewhat a reference to a large group of players (and a bit of generalising servers from China and the kind of players that often arise from the conditions/geographic) from different eSports games that have linked their success and practise methods to pragmatism - it isn't intended to be racist as such).

 

Lots of superfluous stuff without any real practical place in the DS-meta. Being on this note already, I might add that the whole 'points system' of variation falls flat on this point too in that everything is balanced to the pace and gameplay of DS by this point, so to mess with that balance would throw out any meta currently existing.  

 

I'm a Chinese, i just said the truth, i can't be racist and discriminate my own race.

 

It's really hard to understand your words, ur sentences are difficult than those in essays.

I roughly got your meaning, u meant the problem that the whole "points system" of variation falls flat on the point that "lots of superfluous..."  should be considered a part of 'game balance and gameplay' problems. And the problem represents a failure in keeping game balanced and will ruin every existing refinement/tuning?

Did i read it correctly?

 

May i ask u some qustions, please?

 

What is generalising servers?

players arising from the conditions/geographic?

What is 'points system' of variation?

And why did you say 'points system' of variation falls flat on this point?

Does meta means refinement/higher level/tuning?

 

I'll be grateful if u would answer my questions. 

[InaneDugong]

I'm a Chinese, i just said the truth, i can't be racist and discriminate my own race.

 

It's really hard to understand your words, ur sentences are difficult than those in essays.

I roughly got your meaning, u meant the problem that the whole "points system" of variation falls flat on the point that "lots of superfluous..."  should be considered a part of 'game balance and gameplay' problems. And the problem represents a failure in keeping game balanced and will ruin every existing refinement/tuning?

Did i read it correctly?

 

May i ask u some qustions, please?

 

What is generalising servers?

players arising from the conditions/geographic?

What is 'points system' of variation?

And why did you say 'points system' of variation falls flat on this point?

Does meta means refinement/higher level/tuning?

 

I'll be grateful if u would answer my questions.

 

Aha, I might take those questions to Private Messages since they'd derail this topic significantly. All I'll say is that my comments were just to clarify to anyone who didn't understand the Chinese comment.  

[brummbar7]

Hey, I was playing Wendy and it was day 11. Give me a break. 

Ahem: does it really prioritise your base? I've got to test this, because that's absurd. >Loses aggro, >>AGGROS WALLS YARRGGG. Oh god that's so gratuitously inane.

Ya sorry, I didn't mean to suggest your specific case was cowardly.  Obviously in the early game Deerclops can be too much for anyone.  And newbs can obviously have problems for a long time.  But for us experienced players (whom I assume are mostly what participate in these beta forums) well, they should probably be able to deal with him SOME how by the end of the fourth season at latest.  Even if it's just by tooth trap field. 

 

I really do think though that he's intended to aggro structures primarily, and you secondarily.  Near as I can tell.

[An Artifact]

I really do think though that he's intended to aggro structures primarily, and you secondarily.  Near as I can tell.

 

I am pretty certain that he only really aggros structures unless you attack him. If you kite him out of the range of any buildings, he will just pacify and stroll around happily, not a care in the world.

[InaneDugong]

I am pretty certain that he only really aggros structures unless you attack him. If you kite him out of the range of any buildings, he will just pacify and stroll around happily, not a care in the world.

 

See, I can even imagine myself really hating the Deerclops and struggling to deal with it if its AI was buffed, but I can't agree with this state of events. Okay, the Deerclops is amazing at levelling bases and there's no easy counter to it besides remote or ranged weaponry, but does it have to be totally redundant to anyone who has the faintest clue as to kiting?

 

As for new players struggling: the game cannot be balanced around new players. As I suggested (which is the same suggestion I've recommended for Krampus), have the AI scripts improve as the days go on. Have the Deerclops just a scary "RAWR" sensationalistic prop for the first 80 days or so, and then move it onto stronger scripts that direct it to target the base or the player or, just in any capacity, be more intelligent in general. 

 

It's easy to accommodate for different levels of players since everyone wants the same from the game: it's called "Don't Starve" and it's proclaimed as a survival horror, thus it's recommended that, as the days pass, the game becomes significantly more challenging. Scaling makes this possible, and there's many ways to 'scale'.

 

Honestly, I'm happy with just messing around for the first 80 days - it's like that for the first 400 days as it is now. If I want a challenge from the very start, there's Adventure Mode for anyone sharing the same predicament. But Adventure Mode is meant to be a subset of Survival Mode - an alternate style of play - and not a compromise for the side of the community that's played for more than a month (some of us have been playing for over a year - remember the Science points?).  

 

I think the answer for new players and vets is scaling. It doesn't require 'new' content, and it allows Klei to be creative. Just saying. 

[An Artifact]

 

Honestly, I'm happy with just messing around for the first 80 days - it's like that for the first 400 days as it is now.

 

Hm. I never live past like day 100 because I get bored and start taking silly risks. I've never been to day 400.

[InaneDugong]

Hm. I never live past like day 100 because I get bored and start taking silly risks. I've never been to day 400.

 

Can relate. Though I've certainly made it past day 100 and 400, it's normally only on the rare chance that I find something fun to do that's worth living till that day. 

 

Oh, and at one stage (the first time I made it to around 1k), I thought that if I made it till really late in the game, that everything would scale. Boy, was I disappointed. 

[Ridley]

Can relate. Though I've certainly made it past day 100 and 400, it's normally only on the rare chance that I find something fun to do that's worth living till that day. 

 

Oh, and at one stage (the first time I made it to around 1k), I thought that if I made it till really late in the game, that everything would scale. Boy, was I disappointed. 

 

What I do is make crazy new things to add to my base. Soon as webber is out, I will construct a base that never needs a campfire for light.

 

 

We are going slurper powered baby!

[InaneDugong]

What I do is make crazy new things to add to my base. Soon as webber is out, I will construct a base that never needs a campfire for light.

 

 

We are going slurper powered baby!

 

I'm trying to do Adventure Mode in the DLC. God damn, the Winter maps are a killer with Wendy. 

 

Oh, and I'm learning to mod. Just going to make my own Don't Starve that suits me. Seems more appropriate than asking for changes that no one will like. 

[An Artifact]

I'm trying to do Adventure Mode in the DLC. God damn, the Winter maps are a killer with Wendy. 

 

Oh, and I'm learning to mod. Just going to make my own Don't Starve that suits me. Seems more appropriate than asking for changes that no one will like. 

 

I like your ideas for change :c

[XirmiX]

Summoning Krampus has WAY too high reach to Naughtiness maximum level. I'd recommend having 20 - 30 Naughtiness level to Summon Krampus, don't you think?

[InaneDugong]

I like your ideas for change :c

 

You sweetie, you. <3

 

Well, I'm not sure there's any point continuing whilst the majority of players just want new characters that break lore, buffed tooth traps with dapperness aura/AoE buff, and more hats. 

 

Anyway, going to sit down and try mod my balance ideas (good way of testing them first too).

 

 

So, here's a discussion: Wendy. How do you all feel about Wendy? Does anyone see her as a night-time fighter?

 

I've started with Wendy/Abigail and their retarded pathfinding, and that ridiculous 50-sanity increment to summon her. There's a nice Abigail mod already that implements a feature to recall Abigail on command (5 second cooldown at a sanity penalty of 5) as well as another feature to store her in your inventory for when she's super low on hp (again, at a huge sanity cost). Both features really eat through your sanity, and the inventory-Abigail gives you a night-light if you're in combat; but I'm not really content with all of this.

 

For instance, if you can recall Abigail to yourself every 15 seconds for free, I see no problem with this since Abigail will aggro everything under the sun and then stick around to punch-on too--you can't stop her from doing this, so it seems reasonable to be able to pull her out of unwanted combat. However... the whole concept of Wendy is a bit loopy.

 

As I said, does anyone consider Wendy a night-fighter? She's accompanied by a ghost that doubles in damage as the sun begins to fall, and doubles again as the sun completely disappears (this isn't just the mod, right? I don't bother playing Wendy any more in Vanilla since she's atrociously UP minus the stun-lock). In my opinion, she should be a character that avoids combat during the day and seeks to accomplish stuff during the night. There isn't any other character that has this dynamic, so it seems fitting. 

 

So, here would be my proposal:

-Feature to recall Abigail through Hotkey or manual action

-Feature to recall into inventory

-Abigail general recall: 5 sanity, 15 second cool-down

-Abigail inventory recall: 5 sanity + sanity (not dapper) aura penalty equiv to caves, 60 second cool-down 

-Abigail gives nice nightlight whether in inventory or roaming, making it possible for Wendy to seek combat at night without some item

-Abigail light is extinguished during the day (so it's not stupidly OP in Caves)

-Ideally, I'd love to make it so that the general AI for Abigail's 'follow' is less obtuse. At the moment, she follows from a mile behind, and Ctrl+Attack only carries for about 1.2seconds after Wendy changes target - similar to Pigs (only Pigs follow more closely thus being more effective).

-Initial 50 Sanity summon cost reduced to 20-30. Why? Because I've found that the Recall at 5 sanity burns through you bloody quickly (I'm only testing in Adventure Mode since Survival is garbage-boring and a terrible precedent to balance upon).

 

Anyway, thoughts? Also looking at Mr Woodbeaver since I struggle to live through Winter in even just Vanilla without punching in my screen when playing him.    

 

 

Summoning Krampus has WAY too high reach to Naughtiness maximum level. I'd recommend having 20 - 30 Naughtiness level to Summon Krampus, don't you think?

 

Not entirely sure. It's really easy to stay under 30 Naughtiness though. 20 is way better, but it's also really steep as a new player could easily accrue that much in 3 days of rabbit farming (I think). Then again, they probably should be punished but Ridley would tell me off for being so malevolent. 

 

Honestly, I think the decay should just be made way-slower. 30 Naughtiness is good if the decay means you have to wait a good week or two before you hit the chopping block again. 

 

But, as I've said in the Krampus thread, more than just animal-slaughtering should provoke Krampus - that is, if nothing else is going to punish the player for being a privileged d*ckhead. There's heaps of destructive behaviour that should add to it, but meh. There's a nice mod around at the moment that freezes the decay of Naughtiness that may be seeing some more updates in the near future (made by someone in the DLC who follows most the threads). 

 

Oh, which brings me to another question for discussion: Is krampus a creature you fear at all? People spam-spawn Krampus to try get the bag, so it couldn't be that intimidating. Is it the AI scripting for it (I.E. inanely idiotic)? Or is it just weak? etc 

[Ridley]

I feared Krampus when I made him almost ready to chase me after I killed one butterfly as 75 health Maxwell.

 

However, I had to change his aggro rate in the custom world to do that. The whole thing became annoying after awhile anyway.

 

In a normal world, I think I got him to start hissing after killing tall-fort twice. He is nothing to fear, although he has so attack speed.

 

His AI is dumb, he reminds me of a fat and sweaty man trying to steal the bird feathers I never bothered to pick up.

[InaneDugong]

His AI is dumb, he reminds me of a fat and sweaty man trying to steal the bird feathers I never bothered to pick up.

Aaaaahahahahahahahahaha! ^This.

 

It'd probably need a significant rework in the AI for Krampus to be anything but Santa with schizophrenia. I really think Krampus should just try to collect items from chests first-and-foremost. Attacking the player should be like the Koalaphant - a reflex to being attacked, and running away being the priority.  

[Ridley]

Aaaaahahahahahahahahaha! ^This.

 

It'd probably need a significant rework in the AI for Krampus to be anything but Santa with schizophrenia. I really think Krampus should just try to collect items from chests first-and-foremost. Attacking the player should be like the Koalaphant - a reflex to being attacked, and running away being the priority.  

 

I am pretty sure he spawns in groups just to make him more of a threat. A smart krampus shouldn't come in a huge group.

[InaneDugong]

I am pretty sure he spawns in groups just to make him more of a threat. A smart krampus shouldn't come in a huge group.

The amount of Krampi that spawn is based on the day - i.e. it scales from 1->2->3. By day 100, it's 3... 

 

The annoying thing is, all scaling seems to end by day 100. 

[Ridley]

The amount of Krampi that spawn is based on the day - i.e. it scales from 1->2->3. By day 100, it's 3... 

 

The annoying this is, all scaling seems to end by day 100. 

 

The scaling shouldn't be going up, the tricks and fits he pulls needs to be harsher.