Finate/Infinite The Direction Of The Game? Settlers vs Vagabonds

[Joyousterror]

In the current beta i think there are far too many resources that are infinite and some that are much too finate. One of my favorite ideas implemented so far was the nerf to berries as they provide a random amount of uses, then need to be repaired. I think this is the best direction for the game.

This is arguable between people who love to set camp and never move and vagabonds who would prefer you eventually had to move on to scavenge further resources.

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Infinate:

- Rabbits: rabbit holes should deteriorate after a random set amount of uses. Causing you to move on to a new nest.

- Birds: should probably have a little bit lower of a respawn rate when killed especially with the addition of darts. (But function normally when appearing to drop seeds if you aren't killing them.)

- Pigs: Their houses should eventually break from respawning pigs and need to be replaced, requiring pig house research.

- Tallbirds: Should be a huge threat and if killed stay extinct. Requiring making new flute/dart's to gather OP eggs.

- Pigking Gold: Should only give a certain amount per day. Current rabbit/bird farm ideas take a 2-3 days to get more gold then you could ever need, lowering the need for mining/pickaxes.

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Finate

- Rocks:

- Flowers:

- Extinct Tallbirds:

I think scaling the size of the maps would account for the "Dead end". You don't really need to add rendering new parts to your map if you have a large enough map to fit 100 days worth of biomes in. If it takes you up to 100 days to get every rock possible in your world that's big enough. (Rendering would cause an endless eventual huge save file.)

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Excited to see how this game prgoresses in the future

[mobius187]

- Rabbits: rabbit holes should deteriorate after a random set amount of uses. Causing you to move on to a new nest.

In the past I've suggested that once a rabbit is killed then a new rabbit shouldn't respawn for several days. In this way there would be a limit on how much your could rely on rabbits for food. In another thread that discussed seasons it was suggested that during winter rabbits would only rarely appear from their holes.

- Birds: should probably have a little bit lower of a respawn rate when killed especially with the addition of darts. (But function normally when appearing to drop seeds if you aren't killing them.)

Well I could do with fewer birds popping up, but darts won't really make hunting them uneven as one of the components required to make darts are bee stingers... so you need to hunt bees in order to be able to hunt birds. In comparison you can currently hunt rabbits with just about any tool in your hand. I killed one recently with a shovel.

- Pigs: Their houses should eventually break from respawning pigs and need to be replaced, requiring pig house research.

Mmm... I would say no to this idea. Pig houses existed on the islands even before you showed up so that means the pig men built them and therefore know how to maintain them.

Maybe have it that when a pig man dies several days pass before a new pig man spawns from that house. That way they won't become a disposable resource used to help you kill spiders.

- Tallbirds: Should be a huge threat and if killed stay extinct. Requiring making new flute/dart's to gather OP eggs.

I'm all for using the pan flute and darts to "disable" tallbirds and allow you to steal their eggs. However I would hold off making them extinct until tallbird eggs are actually able to start hatching baby tallbirds. After that, then sure. That, and I think there should be more of them per map.

- Pigking Gold: Should only give a certain amount per day. Current rabbit/bird farm ideas take a 2-3 days to get more gold then you could ever need, lowering the need for mining/pickaxes.

Yup. Agreed.

- Rocks:

- Flowers:

- Extinct Tallbirds:

In another thread I discussed stones and flint being a finite resource, and suggested two ways for them to renew. I still liked the idea of a volcanic island that spewed/erupted new boulders.

Flowers... I think they should randomly spawn every so often, while others should die off, so they keep a steady balance. Then if you happen to pick them all more should respawn at some point. I mean, they're just flowers.

Tallbirds and beefalo can both become extinct. Well, actually so can spiders and tentacles too if you think about it, especially if you never "plant" any spider egg sacs. I'm not against extinction, but I would like the tallbirds and beefalo to have babies. If after that you still opt to kill them all, well then they become extinct and that's that.

I think scaling the size of the maps would account for the "Dead end". You don't really need to add rendering new parts to your map if you have a large enough map to fit 100 days worth of biomes in. If it takes you up to 100 days to get every rock possible in your world that's big enough. (Rendering would cause an endless eventual huge save file.)

Well Kevin hinted/teased us with the idea of portals to "other worlds" as a way to expand exploration beyond the original islands.

[501105]

An interesting idea and I like it, but it worries me slightly. I like the idea of having to spent time to make sure you have certain resources to use and having to move around the world to survive. I however am strongly against truly finite resources that at some point can completely run out without giving you another source. As long as it simply means that you cant live endlessly on one location and need to travel and such, then I am all for it, but dont have a certain point at which a lack of a resource ends your progress for good.

[ResonanceCrea]

I wish there was a thumb up system or something here. I agree with my bro, Mobius.

[Joyousterror]

In the past I've suggested that once a rabbit is killed then a new rabbit shouldn't respawn for several days. Well I could do with fewer birds popping up, Maybe have it that when a pig man dies several days pass before a new pig man spawns from that house. That way they won't become a disposable resource used to help you kill spiders.

I think a recurring theme here is to add respawn timers to rabbits/pigs etc. That way you would have to move around to find nests currently populated while you wait. Seems like a good balance between settler/vagabond.

I'm all for using the pan flute and darts to "disable" tallbirds and allow you to steal their eggs. However I would hold off making them extinct until tallbird eggs are actually able to start hatching baby tallbirds.

Well in that case that would help them act like spiders. They slowly overpopulate in numbers via babies growing causing it to be fairly unsafe to try to farm eggs since they would all attack you. Babies will be a great addition.

I still liked the idea of a volcanic island that spewed/erupted new boulders. Kevin hinted/teased us with the idea of portals to "other worlds" as a way to expand exploration beyond the original islands.

That's not a bad idea. But i think it would be too stationary unless it had a huge timer. If that hint ends up an edition i think that would be a great way to end items that are too finate altogether with little tweaking. If you want more you have to travel for it.

I like the idea of having to spent time to make sure you have certain resources to use and having to move around the world to survive. I however am strongly against truly finite resources that at some point can completely run out.

Very much agreed. It should run out causing you to move/travel. But you should always have somewhere new to move to.

[mobius187]

I wish there was a thumb up system or something here. I agree with my bro, Mobius.

No worries.

Well in that case that would help them act like spiders. They slowly overpopulate in numbers via babies growing causing it to be fairly unsafe to try to farm eggs since they would all attack you. Babies will be a great addition.

Yes, but it's only part of the cycle of life. The last thing I want is "tallbird island". I mean, I wouldn't mind that much, but still. No, I think after the DEVs incluing hatching eggs they need to include predators and food requirements. I mean, maybe the hounds could hunt tallbird eggs and baby tallbirds? That would reduce their overall population. Second, if tallbirds (adult and baby) needed to eat... say flowers (I know, but just go with me on this and assume flowers respawn every so often) and all the flowers are eaten because there are so many tallbirds then those that don't eat should begin starving and die off. That's one form of tallbird population control.

The same is true for beefalo, only replace "flowers" with "grass". And yes, I'm suggesting they eat it and therefore you can't harvest it. So now they're a threat/bother to you as well. In which case maybe you need to take steps yourself to control the beefalo herd population.

That's not a bad idea. But i think it would be too stationary unless it had a huge timer. If that hint ends up an edition i think that would be a great way to end items that are too finate altogether with little tweaking. If you want more you have to travel for it.

Well my idea centered around the volcanic island being a very dangerous place. If you haven't already feel free to take a look at the thread:

http://forums.kleientertainment.com/showthread.php?2204-Limited-Resources

Edited November 24, 2012 by mobius187

[Riddling Sphinx]

An interesting idea and I like it, but it worries me slightly. I like the idea of having to spent time to make sure you have certain resources to use and having to move around the world to survive. I however am strongly against truly finite resources that at some point can completely run out without giving you another source. As long as it simply means that you cant live endlessly on one location and need to travel and such, then I am all for it, but dont have a certain point at which a lack of a resource ends your progress for good.

^ This.

If I fail or win, I want it to be because of my choices, not because it was predetermined that even if I did everything right, I will run out of X and die. That's like the designers cheating.

[Joyousterror]

Yes, but it's only part of the cycle of life. The last thing I want is "tallbird island".

I agree with you. I meant full on spider behavior though even having the cap on the amount "spawned" to 4. I believe dogs are going to be taking care of population troubles. They seem to be aggressive towards tallbirds. If they are they should keep numbers small.

Well my idea centered around the volcanic island being a very dangerous place.

I Got around to reading it and it's a very cool idea. It's an interesting fix to limited rocks without having to travel your map size 5 times over when you run low

^ This.

If I fail or win, I want it to be because of my choices, not because it was predetermined that even if I did everything right, I will run out of X and die. That's like the designers cheating.

I don't want resources to be set in the game. I just want them to be set per area causing you to eventually travel further or load another part of your map to scavenge for more. If portals are going to allow that then i think a lot of things should be looked at to be somewhat limited.