Wilson is bland and unenjoyable to play

[Dragonboooorn]

Wilson, The Gentleman Scientist, whose motto is "I will conquer this world with the power of my MIND!"

But Does he holds up to his title and motto? No, no he does not. All he can do Is improve torch viability and unlock very niche, almost usless in any situation transmutations. 

But lets take a look at other characters, who are actually fit his motto and you feel that in their gameplay.

WX78 - The more they explore The Constant and its fauna, the more powerful they get, by researching strong points of bizzare mobs.

Winona - Has her own unique, useful gadgets while also taking inspiration from Wagstaff designs, improving upon them and using for her own benefits. 

So why does these two actually feel like  people who conquer this world with the power of their mind? 

Wilson should have perks that reflect on his theme, just like Winona and WX78 do. And it should be both enjoyable and intresting to play. Making you feel like you play character with a certain, established theme.

So no, Im not asking to nerf/change WX78 and Winona because they took Wilson spotlight - quite the opposite, make HIM just as fun as these two to play. 

[Mike23Ua]

Your forgetting Willow whom’s fire powers are literally the power of her own mind. And if you need in game proof of that, she can “stoke” fires with the power of her mind. But yes I agree Wilson’s gameplay is mostly boring. If he was going to have 8 skill points invested into torches they should at the very least been refuelable like willows lighters are with Embers.

I’d also had loved for him to have had the novelty of torches with different colorations to them, (green, blue, yellow, red) just pretty colors to show that he’s using SCIENCE to change the color of the torches flame. ♥️

[mkemal23]

The problem here is Wilson shares same fate with Wolfgang and Wes. Which means he's stuck with the same boring gameplay loop and everyone is fine with it.

-You might say that Wes deserves a unique gameplay loop and a skill tree but the first answer you'll get is :

"Well, Wes being bad at everything is kinda his thing, you know. He's the challange character"

-Yes I know that. But my question is, does anybody really goes out of their way to pick Wes because he's bad at everything? No.

Same deal goes with Wolfgang.

-You might say how boring Wolfgang's skill tree is and the first answer you'll get is:

"Well, Wolfgang's thing is being strong, you know. The skills does fit the character"

-Yes but is the skill tree really fun though? No.

And finally with Wilson.

-You might say how worthless and unfun Wilson's skill tree is, and the first answer you'll get is:

"Well, Wilson is supposed to be the starting character, So the skills fit his gameplay"

-Sure. But do you really play and have fun with throwing torches being basically a walking crafting station? No.

 

The characters theme should not be an excuse to defend a  badly designed Skill tree/Rework.

Edited 9 hours ago by mkemal23

[Dragonboooorn]

12 minutes ago, mkemal23 said:

The problem here is Wilson shares same fate with Wolfgang and Wes. Which means he's stuck with the same boring gameplay loop and everyone is fine with it.

-You might say that Wes deserves a unique gameplay loop and a skill tree but the first answer you'll get is :

"Well, Wes being bad at everything is kinda his thing, you know. He's the challange character"

-Yes I know that. But my question is, does anybody really goes out of their way to pick Wes because he's bad at everything? No.

Same deal goes with Wolfgang.

-You might say how boring Wolfgang's skill tree is and the first answer you'll get is:

"Well, Wolfgang's thing is being strong, you know. The skills does fit the character"

-Yes but is the skill tree really fun though? No.

And finally with Wilson.

-You might say how worthless and unfun Wilson's skill tree is, and the first answer you'll get is:

"Well, Wilson is supposed to be the starting character, So the skills fit his gameplay"

-Sure. But do you really play and have fun with throwing torches being basically a walking crafting station? No.

 

The characters theme should not be an excuse to defend a  badly designed Skill tree/Rework.

I disagree on Wolfgangs part. His rework was great, and his skill tree brings him up to speed with new planar mechanics. Wolfgang sticks to his "strongman" role, and you feel like playing one. And it feels great.

Dont care for Wes, hes a meme of a character.

Same goes for Wilson, these days, at least thats how Klei treats him. Hes boring and bland. You dont feel like youre playing "gentleman scientist", just some dude obsessed with puns, torches and usless transmutations. His entire skill tree should be reworked in order to make him fun. Hes not even passes like swap characters even though he has supposedly unique crafts. His boring and bland to the core. Why not add unique, quirky inventions? Inspired by Wagstaff, perhaps?

 

[mkemal23]

11 minutes ago, Dragonboooorn said:

I disagree on Wolfgangs part. His rework was great, and his skill tree brings him up to speed with new planar mechanics. Wolfgang sticks to his "strongman" role, and you feel like playing one. And it feels great.

Dont care for Wes, hes a meme of a character.

This is exactly what I was talikng about.

You say that you don't care about Wes because he's a "meme" character. 

And people don't care about Wilson because they see him as a "Starting" character.

Which is basically the same thing.

While in reality all three of them (Wolfgang, Wilson, Wes)need an unique skill tree or a skill tree rework.

Edited 8 hours ago by mkemal23

[Dragonboooorn]

8 minutes ago, mkemal23 said:

This is exactly what I was talikng about.

You say that you don't care about Wes because he's a "meme" character. 

And people don't care about Wilson because they see him as a "Starting" character.

Which is basically the same thing.

While in reality all three of them (Wolfgang, Wilson, Wes)need an unique skill tree or a skill tree rework.

Its not up to people to make a skill tree for DST characters, its Klei`s job. And theyve done fantastic work with designing skill trees. Except for Wilson.

[Cruvimaster]

Wilson is the only classic character who has not had a rework. And your skill tree, being the first, is horrible.

The entire torch branch is a meme. Who uses a torch after 2 or 3 days of playing, having access to a flashlight?

Having a cluttered screen with the image of a beard to store 3 food slots is something I would never use.

The alchemy branch is what really has some interest, but the swaps are very expensive. The conversion of gems should be in the ratio 1:1 (red to blue, blue to red) (yellow to orange, orange to yellow) and 2:1 (yellow/orange to green). And almost all other things should also be 1:1 instead of 3:1 or 2:1.

[Mike23Ua]

17 minutes ago, Dragonboooorn said:

I disagree on Wolfgangs part. His rework was great, and his skill tree brings him up to speed with new planar mechanics. Wolfgang sticks to his "strongman" role, and you feel like playing one. And it feels great.

Dont care for Wes, hes a meme of a character.

Same goes for Wilson, these days, at least thats how Klei treats him. Hes boring and bland. You dont feel like youre playing "gentleman scientist", just some dude obsessed with puns, torches and usless transmutations. His entire skill tree should be reworked in order to make him fun. Hes not even passes like swap characters even though he has supposedly unique crafts. His boring and bland to the core. Why not add unique, quirky inventions? Inspired by Wagstaff, perhaps?

 

The question that is the lingering elephant within the room is that how will these characters play and function in DSE? Right now very little is known about the game but you CAN tell from the one trailer and few screenshots we have of the game is that SOME of WX78’s rework/Skill tree have made it over into the new game you even see one of the more recentish changes Klei did with DST and the way electricity surges off WX78’s Body you see a brief glimpse of that in DSE’s trailer, and we have to ask how Wilson will play in this new game will people “just accept” his boring basic default character playstyle in a Brand New game..? Or will they more realistically expect him to be improved upon and more fun to play as?

Before I get yet another warning for going “Off-Topic” let me just state that for the record NONE OF The cast of Single Player DS play ANYTHING AT ALL like their DST Counterparts.. and we have to imagine these same drastic changes in playstyles and what defines these characters “roles” within the game will change yet again with DSE.

So instead of accepting boring default Wilson being as basic as ever or treating Wes as the Meme of characters or making Wolfgang’s one and only gimmick to punch things to death faster, we have to ask WHO are these characters, HOW should they play? And just like from DS to DST and soon DST to DSE….

How will they evolve and change, and on that note, should we maybe experiment  with them more in DST with reworks, skill tree tweaks or even temporary ability betas to gather “Feedback” before finalizing them for the new game? My point: Wilson is boring and basic in DST but even HE and WES got major changes between DS to DST so EXPECT it to happen again.

[Cheggf]

So don't play him. 

[Dragonboooorn]

14 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

So don't play him. 

unfortunately, thats what Ive been doing for past few years. Im having a blast playing Winona, Wx78 and Wolfgang. 

Its just a shame that playing as Wilson feels not only weak, but, most importantly, boring.

[Wawchik]

40 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

So don't play him. 

This would be valid if his tree wasn't objectively terrible in almost every way possible 

[Wumpair]

The "fun" part of Wilson is, that time to time I can go back to the vanila experience of the game. Yes he does not have a unique playing gimick such as most character, but that makes him great because you can learn new things about the game you did not consider before. Like maybe using cookie cuter helmets instead of football helmets? Or trying new startegies against bosses instead of going for "meta" ways. When I play other characters, most have their own playstile and you need to get into their role to feel right. Wilson is mr. base-Dont Starve, and that is what I like about him. 

And I find that his skilltree has good things, it is not "objectivelly terrible": Large meat = 2 morsels permutation means 1 tall bird kill will give you enogh meat ingredients for 2 pirogies, and refresh food value. Gold <-> nitre is usefull when you have tons of one and little of other. The twigs <-> logs can be very good in a pintch where you need logs (e.i. campfire, glass cuter, general crafting) and run out of them. The gems -> iridesent gems lets you speedrun CC and sanctum golemns. Rocks <-> flint perfect for things such as couble stone crafting and you had ingredients in un-even quantities. The beard storage is efectively +3 inventory slots which is solid. And yes, the lantern exists, but torch toss has its uses, and it is so satisifying to just toss a low-percent tourch, e.i. after buring things for ashes, instead of holding it in your hand. 

3 hours ago, mkemal23 said:

The problem here is Wilson shares same fate with Wolfgang and Wes. Which means he's stuck with the same boring gameplay loop and everyone is fine with it.

-You might say that Wes deserves a unique gameplay loop and a skill tree but the first answer you'll get is :

"Well, Wes being bad at everything is kinda his thing, you know. He's the challange character"

-Yes I know that. But my question is, does anybody really goes out of their way to pick Wes because he's bad at everything? No.

Same deal goes with Wolfgang.

-You might say how boring Wolfgang's skill tree is and the first answer you'll get is:

"Well, Wolfgang's thing is being strong, you know. The skills does fit the character"

-Yes but is the skill tree really fun though? No.

And finally with Wilson.

-You might say how worthless and unfun Wilson's skill tree is, and the first answer you'll get is:

"Well, Wilson is supposed to be the starting character, So the skills fit his gameplay"

-Sure. But do you really play and have fun with throwing torches being basically a walking crafting station? No.

 

The characters theme should not be an excuse to defend a  badly designed Skill tree/Rework.

I would argue the same about Wolfgang and Wes, like I did for Wilson, that their plane and simple playstile makes enjoyable in its own way. But I do share your sentiment mkemal23 that this trio is in an akward spot where they are influenced by "well thats their shpeel" stigma. 

[Cruvimaster]

3 hours ago, Cheggf said:

So don't play him. 

That's exactly what they did with Walter and even had the developer upset because no one wanted to play with him. They improved the character and today he is one of the most played. It goes for Winona and it will go for Warly. Look at the new number of players interested in WX. Fortunately, this "just choose another character" reasoning doesn't prove to be the developers' guide.

But it's good to remember that until all the missing skill trees are completed with the quality of only doing one at a time (like WX) it will take years for Wilson to get any attention from the devs.

[Mr.Tarunio]

I think Wilson will always be the easy to know the game more character.

[Draggofroot]

Wilson should stay as is. With how diverse all the characters are, there should be a character that has nothing going for them for new players to experience the default experience of the game since every other character changes it significantly. Torch skill tree is useless tho imo 

[Cruvimaster]

23 minutes ago, Draggofroot said:

there should be a character that has nothing going for them for new players to experience the default experience of the game

The good old myth of the new player who never chooses a Wilson in practice, because he has better options. Wendy and Wigfrid are indisputable proof of this. Wilson had no rework, so the default experience argument is maintained, as skill trees are optional. Klei has to improve his skill tree and let the beginner choose to play Wilson without using the 15 skill points. And I want to see among 1000 newbies how many will opt for the standard experience (without using the 15 points), proving that this statement is far from reality.

And the default Wilson is a character designed entirely for the single-player version. That's the detail everyone forgets when talking about Together.

Edited 2 hours ago by Cruvimaster

[MrsBoris]

6 hours ago, Cheggf said:

So don't play him. 

Useless comment award

[Szczuku]

That's by design. You see, he was the default character 10 years ago, in a different game, so he can never ever have an interesting kit

[AliceShiki]

7 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

The entire torch branch is a meme. Who uses a torch after 2 or 3 days of playing, having access to a flashlight?

Every new player who doesn't know how to make a Lantern or doesn't want to try going to the caves yet.

2 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

The good old myth of the new player who never chooses a Wilson in practice, because he has better options. Wendy and Wigfrid are indisputable proof of this. Wilson had no rework, so the default experience argument is maintained, as skill trees are optional. Klei has to improve his skill tree and let the beginner choose to play Wilson without using the 15 skill points. And I want to see among 1000 newbies how many will opt for the standard experience (without using the 15 points), proving that this statement is far from reality.

And the default Wilson is a character designed entirely for the single-player version. That's the detail everyone forgets when talking about Together.

One doesn't need to skip Wilson's skill tree to play Wilson as intended as the default character, and DS has nothing to do with Wilson being the default character in DST.

Wilson is the default character in DST because it's the first character in the character list, and it's the character in front of you when you go to the Store Page. That's what makes him the default character, not the fact that he is the starting character in DS.

And just look at his skill tree... Extremely straightforward stuff that helps new players primarily by buffing very early resources (torch tree) and by helping them survive their first winter (beard tree). And it's important to note how straightforward those perks are. They add 0 complexity to Wilson, which is important to a new player who is just learning how to play the game.

You think new players don't choose Wilson because they could play Wendy and Wigfrid instead... How is the new player isn't supposed to know that Wendy is a good new player choice? And also... Wendy fills a different function as a beginner-friendly character. Wilson is good for beginners because he is bland and has very little depth, so the player can focus on learning the game without worrying about having to learn the characters, while Wendy is good because despite her complexity, she is great at trivializing day to day combat, so the player can focus on the other aspects of survival... They fill different niches in why they're good for a new player.

Wigfrid though? The character that can't eat berries, carrots and the like? Wigfrid is terrible for a new player.

I'm so lost whenever people start talking about how Wilson shouldn't be seen as the default character... Like, seriously? The game needs a default character, it's an important entry point for new players, and having a good entry point for new players is extremely important for keeping those new players, because overwhelming them with info makes them less likely to come back.

Also, it's nice to have a character without meaningful gimmicks for veteran players too. Sometimes one may simply be in the mood to play the default experience, and Wilson is ideal for that.

[Mike23Ua]

2 hours ago, Draggofroot said:

Wilson should stay as is. With how diverse all the characters are, there should be a character that has nothing going for them for new players to experience the default experience of the game since every other character changes it significantly. Torch skill tree is useless tho imo 

It’s 2026… we should have a difficulty mode or world Gen setting where ALL Characters play like default Wilson or Default Wes, while opening up these actual characters to actual interesting and fun designs so that each of the playable characters in the game (or in the games sequel DSE..) have their own unique playstyles.

And NO Character should remain mostly unchanged to get the “Mostly Vanilla Experience” NONE of the people I’ve bought this game for have EVER picked Wilson first… it’s usually Woodie or Wigfrid or Wendy or Willow but NEVER Wilson… not even ONCE have I seen Anyone I’ve personally bought a copy of this game for, ever choose Wilson as their first ever character pick.

I can say with absolute certainty that Newbies pick Wilson is a Myth.