The Coals Need to Be Massively Buffed

[GrapeVruit]

Despite the coals offering a unique way of dealing fire damage and cooking food without the need of fire, as of now, they're just not worth the effort. For starters, the recipe itself is pretty expensive, requiring 4 flint, 4 nitre, and 2 heat glands, the latter of which has a pretty low chance to drop from Geothermites. Even once you gather the materials to make these things, you only get 4 of them per craft, which really isn't a lot to do anything with. On top of all of that, the damage of the coals is incredibly pitiful, dealing 3 damage per second to any mob that stands on them, which is just not great for an item with such a high cost. I feel like in order for these things to be better they need to either be cheaper to make, have them give 6 coals per craft instead of 4, and amp up damage mobs take when they stand on them. I think the fire damage right now is probably a place holder until they get the new heat based damage system underway, but it really needs to be impactful if the price is going to stay the same. Currently, the coals are just not worth the investment unless you want to do a weather painless FW fight.

Edited Monday at 08:53 PM by GrapeVruit

[YouKnowWho142]

honestly aside from decorative purposes I couldn't really think of any purpose these could possibly have. Too volatile for most characters to use, too much setup to keep the coals constantly hot, too expensive, and does almost no damage even at their very best. Its one particular use of panicking mobs is also completely outshined by tingle nodes, especially now that they can't affect flying mobs like grumble bees.

I honestly can't even imagine a ton of buffs giving these any practical purpose since I think the way they are now is so conceptually flawed.

[GrapeVruit]

14 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

honestly aside from decorative purposes I couldn't really think of any purpose these could possibly have. Too volatile for most characters to use, too much setup to keep the coals constantly hot, too expensive, and does almost no damage even at their very best. Its one particular use of panicking mobs is also completely outshined by tingle nodes, especially now that they can't affect flying mobs like grumble bees.

I honestly can't even imagine a ton of buffs giving these any practical purpose since I think the way they are now is so conceptually flawed.

I see the potential of a floor hazard that does great DOT while having solid crowd control with panic, but it's just not there yet unfortunately. Like, I'd imagine they'd be good for dealing with hordes of monsters like spiders, hounds, and the ruins monkeys. Imagine setting up a large path of these by the entrance of the ruins and having all the monkeys die before they can take a bite out of you. I feel there's potential, it's just too expensive and not damaging enough to be worth the hassle right now.

[Dingle]

I wish they killed butterflies again!

[Popian]

You can drop burnable items on them to increase the fire damage dealt. With some measuring, a flingo can automatically put out the fires before the items burn but it may be easier and more effective to count and activate manually. Alternatively, they can be used to freeze things.

More permanent heat sources like Scaled Furnaces can be used if you don't mind picking up the coals to stop the burning. Fire Pits and other temporary heat sources are good with manual extinguishing if you don't want to replace the coals every time.

[Cassielu]

Have you ever tried using it to build something instead of just use it in the simplest way?

Most of mob oven (the kind build of flammable things and Ice Flingomatic), Anenemy traps even some of Brightshade can now be replaced by coal. It is safer, simpler, renewable, has lower performance costs, wider range, working outside the loading range, and it's completely legal, obviously not cheese. Undoubtedly it is the most powerful and most influential item in this update, capable of significantly altering the pattern for killing most of mobs in the later game.

But well, I don't mind it being even more powerful.

Edited Tuesday at 01:46 PM by Cassielu

[Frosty_Mentos]

Are these useful against bee queen? Generally I see hot coals being a sort of a permanent defence in order to deal with simpler enemies, while also being more of a damage supplement than primary way to deal with anything. I'd argue that we need thermal staff or some magic we could upgrade from fire and life amulet to make use of the current new mechanics.

[GrapeVruit]

29 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Are these useful against bee queen? Generally I see hot coals being a sort of a permanent defence in order to deal with simpler enemies, while also being more of a damage supplement than primary way to deal with anything. I'd argue that we need thermal staff or some magic we could upgrade from fire and life amulet to make use of the current new mechanics.

I don't think it works for flying mobs.

[IAmAFurrz]

16 hours ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

Too volatile for most characters to use

i like that it encourages scalemail usage, but on the other hand, it doesnt do enough to make any fight any different sadly

[Kvetevk]

I use them to cook bunch of food overtime, it is slow and it cooks one at a time if it's stacked, but with something like wobot to pick up only cooked meat it is great for cooking large amount of food.

Edited Tuesday at 09:02 PM by Kvetevk

[Mike23Ua]

I need to disclaim that I can not play betas, but I do want to try my best to suggest Beta Relevant features..

Is it possible to place coals down at\around ponds to create warm spa baths? I know that’s what Bath Bombs already do to the Lunar Island spots but it just sounds like a perfect opportunity to allow heated coals to make steam baths.

Also, apparently Walters portable campfires can heat the coals, again I can’t play in betas so I do not know if the things I suggest are already possible or not.. but Shouldn't Wilson’s Torch Toss & Winona’s Heated Spotlights also heat them?

And lastly can you drag & drop a Thermic Tool into a lake to maybe speed up the Steam spa in exchange for cooling the tool?

[HowlVoid]

Im not on beta but can you not use these for passive spider/pig farm? Can you box mobs in and drop a dwarf star on the coals?

If the starcaller doesnt synergize than thats a missed opportunity (idk if it does im on console).

[gamehun20]

3 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Im not on beta but can you not use these for passive spider/pig farm? Can you box mobs in and drop a dwarf star on the coals?

If the starcaller doesnt synergize than thats a missed opportunity (idk if it does im on console).

It does heat it up but i think the coals normally do very little damage like 3 or 4

[Chesterxito]

Tried setting farms with coals, turns out they kinda really suck.

There are plenty of issues that coals have/cause that makes them just not work for farming, those being:

- Expensive: Apparently glands drops arent affected by luck (From what I've tested, haven't checked the code) so gathering enough glands to make a tonof coals takes like an entire season. Costs should be reduced to 1 per craft or a higher chance to be dropped, or dropping more than 1.

-Distancing:

You see the empty space between furnace and the coals? well it applies to ALL structures, so if you make an smal box of walls/fences with meat for example, mobs can slip in between the space and don't recieve fire dmg

-Burning everything: burnable drops will set on fire, so bunny puffs, silk and such will burn away. So they only really work for farming cooked meat primarily

-Panicking: You see the spider outside the electric fence? mobs will be just permanently panicked inside hot coals and fairly often they will manage to get outside coals radius and even get outside the tingle nodes. So you are kinda forced to use regular fences/walls.

atm the closest I could get to a "functional" farm was this:

Placing a powdercake inside a box leaves a tiny gap between coals and the fences/walls so it doesn't work. Just placing it on the floor cooks it and the sets it on fire, so eternal fruitcake was the only viable option, even then, sometimes bunnymen will randomly ignore panicking and eat it. Due to the constant panicking, sometimes bunnies would get outside tingle nodes so you have to use regular fences/walls. Fire dmg is very minimal and its very slow to kill them. Puffs will be set on fire on fire, and carrots too, first they cook and then they get set on fire. Pigs probably also work but equally as bad.

I tried spiders but I cant lure them with monster meat on a box, and they destroy fences/walls, you could try and fight them inside the coals, but for that case you have to farm even more glands.. Splumonkeys will steal placed coals, even when hot so you have to specifically lure them on nightmare phase. Maybe tallbirds farm could work? issue is that you can't place nests so rng will screw the placement 

One goofy use for them while I was testing is using them for Klaus fight. the panicking applies to deers and sometimes they won't do spells. Ice spell do cools coals, so you still have to try kite them.

 

 

 

[GrapeVruit]

13 minutes ago, Chesterxito said:

Tried setting farms with coals, turns out they kinda really suck.

There are plenty of issues that coals have/cause that makes them just not work for farming, those being:

- Expensive: Apparently glands drops arent affected by luck (From what I've tested, haven't checked the code) so gathering enough glands to make a tonof coals takes like an entire season. Costs should be reduced to 1 per craft or a higher chance to be dropped, or dropping more than 1.

-Distancing:

You see the empty space between furnace and the coals? well it applies to ALL structures, so if you make an smal box of walls/fences with meat for example, mobs can slip in between the space and don't recieve fire dmg

-Burning everything: burnable drops will set on fire, so bunny puffs, silk and such will burn away. So they only really work for farming cooked meat primarily

-Panicking: You see the spider outside the electric fence? mobs will be just permanently panicked inside hot coals and fairly often they will manage to get outside coals radius and even get outside the tingle nodes. So you are kinda forced to use regular fences/walls.

atm the closest I could get to a "functional" farm was this:

Placing a powdercake inside a box leaves a tiny gap between coals and the fences/walls so it doesn't work. Just placing it on the floor cooks it and the sets it on fire, so eternal fruitcake was the only viable option, even then, sometimes bunnymen will randomly ignore panicking and eat it. Due to the constant panicking, sometimes bunnies would get outside tingle nodes so you have to use regular fences/walls. Fire dmg is very minimal and its very slow to kill them. Puffs will be set on fire on fire, and carrots too, first they cook and then they get set on fire. Pigs probably also work but equally as bad.

I tried spiders but I cant lure them with monster meat on a box, and they destroy fences/walls, you could try and fight them inside the coals, but for that case you have to farm even more glands.. Splumonkeys will steal placed coals, even when hot so you have to specifically lure them on nightmare phase. Maybe tallbirds farm could work? issue is that you can't place nests so rng will screw the placement 

One goofy use for them while I was testing is using them for Klaus fight. the panicking applies to deers and sometimes they won't do spells. Ice spell do cools coals, so you still have to try kite them.

 

 

 

Yeah, REALLY hope they buff these things a ton next patch. The inconsistent panicking especially and the damage respectively.